[Deck] Goblins

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Originally Posted by Anvil

Greetings all.

First of; I registered here just for this thread, planning on restarting my own goblin legacy deck ( it's been partially assembled but lacks some key cards ).

I have a few questions;

When I first spoke to several players, they suggested a card that I seem to miss here; Fling.

It seems like a good card versus moat and other can't attack mechanics.It is however counterable and as such probably a less than adequate choice.

What I also 'miss' here, is a mention of auntie's hovel and other B/R lands ( graven cairns / blood crypt come to mind ) that might be usefull ( rakdos carnarium and other "comes into play tapped"-lands obviously aren't contenders here ).

So, hopefully some of you can help me out here :)

p.s: please ignore or forgive any misspellings, as English isn't my native language ;)

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I don't think Fling has a place in this deck. Consider that most of our goblins are 1 or 2 power guys, so then we might as well play another tarfire which can also be very useful in more commons situations (thankfully, Moat is very uncommon, although Siege-Gang Commander can do some work versus it).

Graven Cairns is a good card, but we don't need double black, and the lands we have that tap for black tap for red also. Blood Crypt is a worse version of Badlands, but could be used as a budget alternative. Auntie's Hovel has seen some play, but has a few weaknesses compare to Badlands/Fetch.

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Originally Posted by Sandro95

I don't think Fling has a place in this deck. Consider that most of our goblins are 1 or 2 power guys, so then we might as well play another tarfire which can also be very useful in more commons situations (thankfully, Moat is very uncommon, although Siege-Gang Commander can do some work versus it).

Graven Cairns is a good card, but we don't need double black, and the lands we have that tap for black tap for red also. Blood Crypt is a worse version of Badlands, but could be used as a budget alternative. Auntie's Hovel has seen some play, but has a few weaknesses compare to Badlands/Fetch.

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I think mostly the fling is to fling a fully buffed piledriver into your opponent's face.

I see some weakness to Auntie's Hovel, it not being fetchable.But for those people ( like me :P ) that don't want to buy duals just for 1 deck ( this would just be an occasional legacy deck ), do you think that Auntie's Hovel,Blood Crypt and Graven Cairns would do the job?

Graven Cairns does more than just supply BB in my eyes.Should you end up with a swamp,Graven Cairns,vial,etc in your hand, it's possible to drop swamp, vial T1, cairns T2 and you have acces to red mana ( albeit it limits some playchoices ).Anyone have any experience with this?

Why play fling over Goblin Grenade? =]
Its really disappointing that they never printed Goblin Grenade as a Sorcery Tribal - Goblin... that would be insane.. I would tottaly bring 3~4 to MD, the fact that you can deal 10 damage after an attack is really a big issue, but the fact that you cant draw it with ringleader crush it.

I dont think D&T are a problem, i think Blade decks in general are a problem. Even with 2 goblin artifact hate in MD/SB is hard to deal with a solved jitte on any creature. D&T has a lot of first strike creatures and other blades have delver.. it is really complicated. Hope I am playing wrong in this match ups, because in my last tornament I found 3 blade decks (2 D&T and one UWr blade), win one, lost two games.

I guess I will move to a black splash =]

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Originally Posted by max_goblin

Why play fling over Goblin Grenade? =]
Its really disappointing that they never printed Goblin Grenade as a Sorcery Tribal - Goblin... that would be insane.. I would tottaly bring 3~4 to MD, the fact that you can deal 10 damage after an attack is really a big issue, but the fact that you cant draw it with ringleader crush it.

I dont think D&T are a problem, i think Blade decks in general are a problem. Even with 2 goblin artifact hate in MD/SB is hard to deal with a solved jitte on any creature. D&T has a lot of first strike creatures and other blades have delver.. it is really complicated. Hope I am playing wrong in this match ups, because in my last tornament I found 3 blade decks (2 D&T and one UWr blade), win one, lost two games.

I guess I will move to a black splash =]

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What splash are you playing now? Because I play RW Thalia goblins and I win most of the matchups against blade decks.

1x Tuktuk MD
3x Wear//Tear SB
1x Shattering Spree SB

As long as you can kill SFM (tarfirem, gempalm), they can't play those blade so soon. Then you have enough time to bring in Tuktuk with matron/ringleader or draw wear, shattering. Or just use your pushing methods/removal spells to keep them out of creatures. They usualy don't play too many of them, no big deal to kill them all. Also, if I don't have some kind of artifact removal in my initial hand, I often try to mulligan to 6 if I get lucky. Most of the time I do, then it's quite easy to beat them.

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Originally Posted by TheOnlyNahlej

First, I want to thank all that have kept this board up and going, it is a great place to get info and ideas for my little green guys.

I have a Legacy tournament coming up this weekend for a Candelabra, and they are having a pre-tourny tourny tomorrow night. Should I play my normal goblins list, try some new changes, or play an entirely different list to keep those who would meta against me off of my true deck?

My normal list is:
4x Goblin Warchief
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Ringleader
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Mogg War Marshal
4x Gempalm Incinerator
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Goblin Chieftain

4x Aether Vial
1x Tarfire

4x Plateau
4x Cavern of Souls
4 Mountain
3x Arid Mesa
3x Scalding Tarn
2x Rishadan Port
2x Wasteland

SB
4x Rest in Peace
3X Thorn of Amethyst
4x Wear/Tear
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Tarfire
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Stingscourger

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I think that 4 Thalia is overkill (3 is more typical) and I would want some Krenko/SGC in there, maybe over the 4th copies of your other two-drops? I quite like having a toolbox of value vs various decks like Prospector, Sharpshooter, Stingscourger etc. 4 Wasteland is also standard as well.

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Originally Posted by magicmerl

I think that 4 Thalia is overkill (3 is more typical) and I would want some Krenko/SGC in there, maybe over the 4th copies of your other two-drops? I quite like having a toolbox of value vs various decks like Prospector, Sharpshooter, Stingscourger etc. 4 Wasteland is also standard as well.

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I had prior used a toolbox approach with stingscourger, sharpshooter, Krenko, and Seige-Gang, but dropped them for 4 Mogg War Marshals. I have recently cut down on the Thalia to 3 and put the Krenko back in it's place.
If I was to up my wasteland count, should I cut down on the number or fetches or something else?

You can easily cut 2 plateau (or 1 plateau, 1 fetchland) and one mountain for 2 wastelands and the third rishadan port. Then if you want to run also the 4 port you should add a 23rd land, but with thalia main deck is not necessary in my opinion.

I'm going to play big legacy tournament in this Saturday. Could you teach me how to sb against DTB?

my list:
4 lackey
4 vial
1 skirk
1 sting
4 driver
2 MWM
2 TSH
4 gempalm
4 warchief
4 matron
1 shooter
1 krenco
4 ringleader
1 SCG

6 fetchland
3 mountain
4 port
4 wasteland
1 plateau
1 taiga
4 cavern

SB:
2 chalice
2 thalia
2 confusion in tha ranks
2 wear/tear
3 kinesis
3 relic
1 trap


vs D&T
+3 kinesis +2 WT
-4 driver -1 mwm


vs RUG(no TNN)
on draw
+3 relic +3 kinesis
-1 scg -2 tsh -1 shooter -2 driver
on turn
-1 scg -2 tsh -1 shooter -1 driver -1 skirk


vs S&T
+2 thalia +2 confusion +2 WT
-2 tsh -4 ringleader


vs Maverick no plague, no pushfire:
+3 pyro

or i need to add +3 relic against knights, ooze, shaman, if it is so what do i need to sb out?

on draw:
-2 driver -1 mwm

on turn:
-1 driver -2 mwm

plague, no pushfire:
+3 pyro +2 WT
-2 driver -2 mwm -1 sting

pushfire, no plague:
+3 pyro +3 relic
-4 driver -1 sting -1 skirk


vs Tem America
on draw no info:
+3 relic +3 pyro -1 TSH -4 lackey -1 shooter

on draw plague: +3 relic +3 pyro +2 wear -1 shooter -1 TSH -4 lackey -1 skirk -1 scg

on draw jitte:
+3 relic +3 pyro -4 lackey -1 scg -1 shooter

on draw all:
+3 relic +3 pyro +2 wear -4 lackey -1 skirk -1 shooter -1 driver -1 scg

on play no info:
+3 relic +3 pyro +1 wear -1 TSH -1 mwm -2 driver -1 skirk -1 shooter -1 scg

on play plague:
+3 relic +3 pyro +2 wear -2 TSH -1 skirk -1 shooter -2 driver -1 scg -1 mwm

on play all:
+3 relic +3 pyro +2 wear -1 TSH -1 skirk -1 shooter -1 scg -1 mwm -2 driver -1 ?


UWR delver(Owen's list)
+3 pyrokinesis -2 mwm -1 sting


Jund+pushfire
on draw no info:
+3 pyro +3 relic -4 lackey -2 tsh
on draw+plague:
+3 pyro +3 relic +2 wt -4 lackey -2 ths -1 sting -1 skirk
on draw+jitte:
+3 pyro +3 relic -4 lackey -1 sting -1 skirk
on draw+all:
+3 pyro +3 relic +2 wt -4 lackey -1 skirk -1 shooter -1 tsh -1 sting

on play no info:
+2 pyro +3 relic +1 wt(if i've lost first) -1 skirk -1 tsh -1 shooter -1 sting -2 driver
on play+plague:
+2 pyro +3 relic +2 wt -1 skirk -2 tsh -1 shooter -1 sting -2 mwm
on play+jitte:
+3 pyro +3 relic -1 shooter -1 sting -1 skirk -3 driver
on play+all:
+2 pyro +3 relic +2 wt -1 shooter -1 skirk -1 sting -2 mwm -2 driver

The Great Escape. A game to remember.

So I was playing Show and Tell in the Final of the local Tourney, and he goes first in the last duel and manages to cast Show and Tell and drops Emrakul turn 1 smirking. ( I later found out he was holding a force of will )
I dropped a matron and fetched up Stingscourger.

So my go, I dropped a mountain, then a Chrome Mox, then my second Chrome Mox that i top decked. I then cast Stingscourger to bounce Emrakul, which he tried to Force, but with my 1 open red mana I cast REB!
His face dropped in disbelief. My remaining card was a wasteland which I used next turn to destroy his solitary land, and then with 2 moxes and a mountain I started to draw into Goblins and overwhelmed him quickly for the win.

Lucky yes, but would never have happened without acceleration of Chrome Moxes, and REB from sideboard.

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Originally Posted by orcanmail

The Great Escape. A game to remember.

So I was playing Show and Tell in the Final of the local Tourney, and he goes first in the last duel and manages to cast Show and Tell and drops Emrakul turn 1 smirking. ( I later found out he was holding a force of will )
I dropped a matron and fetched up Stingscourger.

So my go, I dropped a mountain, then a Chrome Mox, then my second Chrome Mox that i top decked. I then cast Stingscourger to bounce Emrakul, which he tried to Force, but with my 1 open red mana I cast REB!
His face dropped in disbelief. My remaining card was a wasteland which I used next turn to destroy his solitary land, and then with 2 moxes and a mountain I started to draw into Goblins and overwhelmed him quickly for the win.

Lucky yes, but would never have happened without acceleration of Chrome Moxes, and REB from sideboard.

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Haha, nice play he surely didn't expect that :-) That's the beauty of goblins. They can do surprising shit like this and they're unstoppable. They always come back, you just can't get rid of them. They're so awesome I'd marry every one of those little green bastards.

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Originally Posted by prateta

They're so awesome I'd marry every one of those little green bastards.

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Just think about Christmas with the family. They have sooo many relatives... And weird Uncle Krenko has the bad habit of inviting random fellas...

~...Silent Night...~

//EDIT: Oh, and then you hear Mogg Fanatic shout out of the kitchen: "Screw you, youngsters. When I was your age, combat damage would still go on the stack!!!"

On topic of "Games to remember"

Last weekend in the first match against Pox I was watching my opponent work on my mana and my hands. Ultimately I had "only" two Vials in play ticking every round, but no goblins on the field or in hand. Ultimately I drew 2 Warren Instigators in 2 consecutive turns. So, my Opp had his guard up in form of a Mutavault to Block one Winstigator. EOT I bring in the other via Vial. Then, in my turn I draw Matron.

So, on his turn I had 1 WInstigator in play, 2 Vials and 1 card in hand.
At the end of my next turn I had 1 Winstigator, 1 Matron, 1 Ringleader, 1 Chieftain, 1 Krenko, 6 Goblin Token and two Vials in play and another Chieftain in hand.

I went 1-3 with goblins yesterday.

R1 Death and Taxes (Loss)
I remember having two vials turned off by a Revoker g1, while only having two lands.

R2 A brew with Nic fit Characteristics (Win)
I won g1
G2 My opponent lands a Moat, but doesn't have much of a clock. I get Krenko + Skirk Prospector online to allow me to chain ringleaders to go through my deck. My opponent drops Engineered Plague + Orzhov Pontiff, but I have Chieftain + Boartusk Liege, and on my turn I make a dozen tokens with Krenko, and then Skirk Prospector + Goblin Sharpshooter finishes it. I think my opponent was somewhere close to twenty life. Beating Moat + Plague felt pretty sweet!

R3 Infect (Loss)
I misplayed G1 by wastelanding a Blinkmoth Nexus when he had mana open to cast Vines of the Vastwood, a pretty bad play considering I'm at least relatively familiar with what an infect list looks like.
Chalice helped a lot G2, but I lost the third game.

R4 Four color good stuff WBRG (Loss)
I wasn't playing my best here, being 1-2 in a four rounds tournament. However, that's no excuse for bad play!
G1 (I think) My opponent had two Lands, a DRS and a Bob. He tapped out for an O-ring(I think) targeting my vial on three. I responded by vialing in a Goblin Chieftain, gempalmed his Bob, untapped and played two lackeys with double ringleader in hand. Yeah, that was pretty explosive.
My opponent misplayed by playing O-Ring when I only had prospector and he only Lily, but I didn't even see the play. As I said, I wasn't very focused, but in my opinion, when I find myself in such a state I should refocus, rather than play badly.

My Sideboard was a work in progress as I wasn't sure about the last few cards (although Boartusk Liege turned out to be quite useful!).
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Perish
1 Engineered Plague
1 Shattering Spree
1 Boartusk Liege
1 Red Elemental Blast

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Originally Posted by GoboLord

Just think about Christmas with the family. They have sooo many relatives... And weird Uncle Krenko has the bad habit of inviting random fellas...

~...Silent Night...~

//EDIT: Oh, and then you hear Mogg Fanatic shout out of the kitchen: "Screw you, youngsters. When I was your age, combat damage would still go on the stack!!!"

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Brilliant :-D if you think about it, goblins have everything you need for a good christmas party. Mother is the cook, Stingscourger is there for the new year's eve firecrackers, Lackey to serve the quests. The only problem may occur if adopted child Thalia starts seducing the clan Chieftain, which may result to Goblin Piledriver breaking her neck.

I'm afraid that this kind of party could get a little bit out of control. God forbid their neighbours are elves.

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Originally Posted by prateta

I'm afraid that this kind of party could get a little bit out of control.

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Don't worry, we can always ask Krenko to make more goblins, or Ringleader to gather some more.
But not Recruited. He can't show up after what he did...

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Originally Posted by prateta

Stingscourger is there for the new year's eve firecrackers

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Good thing Grandpa Goblin Pyromancer is not invited.

On a different note:

Although have been quite successful with RB WInstigator lately I want to give Rishadan Ports and Mogg War Marshal a try. However I'm pondering about one or two issues.

This is what I definitely want to have in the MD

//MANA (22)
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 Badlands
13 Others lands

//extended CORE (28)
4 Vial
4 Lackey
4 Piledriver
4 MWM
4 Chieftain
4 Matron
4 Ringleader

//OTHER (10)
1 Warren Weirding
1 Stingscourger
8 Other cards

SIDEBOARD (15)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cabal Therapy
7 Others cards

The metagame will be very open. I think the top contenders will be Storm, Show&Tell, Esperblade and Elves.
What would you design the manabase and the remaining 8 MD and 7 SB slots with those four decks in mind?
Note that it might be the case that I have no Chrome Moxen available, bc a buddy of mine wants to play Belcher.

I'm looking forward to hear your suggestions and explanations!

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Originally Posted by GoboLord

The metagame will be very open. I think the top contenders will be Storm, Show&Tell, Esperblade and Elves.
What would you design the manabase and the remaining 8 MD and 7 SB slots with those four decks in mind?
Note that it might be the case that I have no Chrome Moxen available, bc a buddy of mine wants to play Belcher.

I'm looking forward to hear your suggestions and explanations!

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If you're expecting elves, Sharpshooter and Pyrokinesis should make an appearance somewhere in your 75 for sure.

I also think you need some form of artifact hate for the Blade decks and other random Jittes. I'd probably run one in the main for Matron to grab and at least one more in the board.

Tooday I have done 5-8 place in the big tournament(91 people)
2-1 ant
2-1 grixis pyromant delver
2-0 show and sneak
1-1 mirakl
0-2 TA
2-0 loam
2-0 elfs
Top8 0-2 TA

So... I've got this Kiki-Jiki on my desk and it's driving me crazy I ain't able to play him. I tried to play him, but he truly is just a win-more. Played like 20 games online with him and there were only like 1-2 games when I was glad having him in my hand/topdecking him/wanted to tutor for him. Krenko was always better and faster at finishing the game. Hell even SGC would be better.

Any of you guys have any idea how to integrate him to the deck? Maybe some kind of combo worth playing? Because I really want to play this sweet card (I am an altered card fetishist).

http://i40.tinypic.com/34j3o93.jpg

Btw, played a lot of games (+- 60) on Cockatrice lately with no Stingscourger maindeck or SB because of some changes and there was just no space for him to fit in. So I decided to give it a try and cut him off. Never actually missed him, I remember maybe one game when I felt like having him would be good. Just a food for thought.

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Originally Posted by prateta

Any of you guys have any idea how to integrate him to the deck? Maybe some kind of combo worth playing? Because I really want to play this sweet card (I am an altered card fetishist).

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Just a few pages back, ScatmanX posted a tournament report running Kiki-Jiki with Restoration Angel for combo plays and blinked Ringleaders. It sounded incredibly fun.

Interesting to note on the Stingscourger.

@GoboLord: I've sleeved up the 75 you posted in your previous report. Looking forward to 7 hastelords.

@gobbolord
1st things First. If you want to Play Basics, You will have 11 Black sources at most, if you want to Play caverns its the Same, if You Play no(!) basics.
With 4 Cabal Therapy against Storm You always want T1-2 Black Mana. Against Sneakshow caverns is One of the better cards in your deck. You have to keep this in mind by Building they Manabase.
I would suggest something along the Lines of 5 Mana-Screw Lands, 2 caverns 3 Basic Mountain --> 12 Black sources.

A friend of Mine and ne Testes the Deathblade MU and over Time it went from acceptable to bad. We Figuren out a tech, how you can Beat them a Lot better.
The Games Play Out Kind of like this:
He get's deathrite You Händle or ignore him, he Lands Stoneforge and you have to answering every threat or the Equipment from now on, eh get's TNN and eh locks us out of the game, because we were Controlling Till then and dont have a Lot of Board presence. Then we turn on the ca-Machine, while he's Beratung is down with deathrite activations and Nemesis. This Works, because he has saved his disruption Till now (because we were playing control) and can kill/discard the Important creatures with a 3-5 turn clock on the table.
Krenko is One of the few ways out. Often je get's a Second Stoneforge, wich Equipment we have to handle and we have to Play Control again, while he's killing us with nemesis.

The Way Out: just play on Control, but with cares, that can handle gis entire board. Something along the Lines of: 3 Massacre, 2 Shattering pulse.

Havent testet it yet, but whipe his Board into Warchief, piledriver, Piledriver, gg seems pretty hard to beat. Shattering Pulse kills Jitte and SoFI, while traiding 5 of your mana with 5-8 from him.