Vision Charm was not a misprint. look at the 3rd ability. it's a way to give your creatures islandwalk for a turn if they are not playing blue or if you don't have a lord of atlantis or master of the pearl trident on the table.
Printable View
Vision Charm was not a misprint. look at the 3rd ability. it's a way to give your creatures islandwalk for a turn if they are not playing blue or if you don't have a lord of atlantis or master of the pearl trident on the table.
Aquitect's Will does it for longer than a turn, Spreading Seas effectively Wastelands them for one more mana if they are not on blue and both of these cards are not ones I would run right now with TNN being the thing he is.
Well, neither Aquitect's Will nor Spreading Seas do anything against equipment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
I'm really liking the build with Cavern instead of Wasteland. I'm running they playset even though I sometimes would like 1 of them to be an Island.
However they feel good even against decks not running counters, when they play Chocke and you still able to cast creatures! Not to mention they help with UU cost in every MU!
Have you tried a build where you cut Mutavault instead of Wasteland? I would rather have Wasteland than Mutavault.Quote:
Originally Posted by BVB09
I haven't tried the Caverns yet, but have much trouble imagining them being anything but awful. Wasteland wins so many random games, often in bad (or otherwise bad) matchups and we already are favored against every deck with counters (or they're unconcerned with countering our creatures). The other issue I see with Hatch's build is a lack of disruption, without Standstill it's harder to draw into counters for combo and guys against fair matchups, and with no Dismembers MD there are all sorts of ways we can just lose g1 to a random Bob or SFM, which is how many games go anyway.
Cosi's Trickster and Tidal Warrior both seem like great ideas, though, as I did notice our good draws were the dude-heavy ones. Tidal Warrior is hard to fit in, as I don't want to cut core dudes. More dude-heavy Fish means cutting Reejerey is even dumber than usual, and it also means that Image is awkward for neither triggering him nor being much of a t2 play. I want to squeeze in 4 TNNs main, but 3 isn't the end of the world (they are bad sometimes, and being TNN-flooded or 3-drop flooded can suck). With seven 3-drops a twenty-first land is a good idea, and making that land an Island is an even better idea. Daze and Force can be cut one copy each for a fair-blue-heavy meta. I don't wanna cut a Cursecatcher but I have not spiked many things with him lately. So I arrive then at this build
3 Daze
3 Force
2 Standstill
2 Dismember
4 Vial
19 Obvious Fish (only 3 Cursecatcher)
3 TNN
3 Cosi's Trickster
4 Waste
4 MVault
13 Islands (could be 1 Cavern 12 Islands but naaaaah)
Board:
2 Kira (less Decay lately, more Jitte)
1 TNN (duh)
1 Llawan (why not, this deck has a shitty sideboard anyway)
2 Phantasmal Image (gotta board in dudes against fair non-blue)
2 Submerge (I hate this card)
3 Relic of Progenitus (obv)
3 Spell Pierce (sadly)
1 Force (sure)
Edit: Ahhhh it must be late in the year as people are suggesting Sygg again. It is still terrible. If you're hitting with TNN you're either winning already, losing already (if they're racing yours with theirs + equip), or wanting to play around a sweeper
The point in trading wastelands for caverns is that wastes in this deck often make us lose a turn. I don't think we play tempo with this deck (specially when we don't have Vial in the opening hand) Also it allows us to safely run 7-8 3 drops if we cut wastes, if we cut mutas we would have a worse manabase.
I'm not saying it's the way to go, but I'm liking it for the moment; I will test it more.
I have included 2 Coralhelm Commanders (-1 Reejerey -1 Image, i'm running 3 of each now) as a meta choice, I'm also testing them. I imagined they don't play well with Cursed totem so I changed them for 2 Needles.
I dislike Commander. He is a living Abrupt Decay target that costs far more than his worth. Not to say he does not have benefits, only that the card just costs more than its worth to use.
On Wasteland, I have been proven wrong in the past, so I may eat my words. That said, waste is a strong part of this deck. The counters, mixed with land denial and a strong creature base all works to create one well rounded package. The issues stated that people are having with Wasteland appears to come from the overly aggressive use of the card in situations where it is of more use kept as a mana source. If the need to use it as a mana card overweights the need to keep them off a colour or card, wait and pull the trigger later.
But cutting the card seams foolish, making better use of it I think is the best option. Knowing when and why to use it is far more useful than moving to another option. The cards strengths are compounded when you think that Force, Daze and other Tax Counters are more effective when you can punish someone with waste at the same time.
Lastly I feel like reduced Wasteland counts are a bane in our combo match ups. Please, rase your hand if wasting a fetch in response to Brainstorm or top has won you a game. Also, what decks tend to run those cards? What is this deck made to fight?
Food for thought.
I also dislike Commander, but flying creatures have proven to be a strong problem for me. And at his 4 thoughness he eats all (Serra's, Flicker, Delver...)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
I don't know about wastes but cutting them seems to be the right thing. Look at the last results. The last 2 merfolks decks submited to tc decks made top8 without them (both 50-60 people i think), also ended one 2nd in scginvi. Last but not least the 5th position in "Liga de Legacy de Madrid" (hasnt been uploaded yet i think), featured an interesting list which cut Dazes for Pierces and run cavern, which is a solution to what you're pointing (Daze getting weaker)
I think it's better to lose a bit against combo and have a chance against fair decks, that would make us a more competitive deck.
On a side note, I read about Jeweled Amulet in a recent article from Caleb. It looks interesting, probably not worth it, but TNN turn 2 or not losing tempo with daze? Not bad!
I guess it would be better with brainstorm, terrible topdek
I like to block fliers with instant clones. And while we're throwing out cute cards like Jeweled Amulet... I came across Peer Pressure the other day. Seems like you could take an opposing TNN or wizard almost at will. I'm not going to test it, but I thought it was neat.
I'm also firmly in the pro-wasteland and anti-commander camps.
Commander hasn't been as good as expected even in the cavern list. However I have 2 free slots (I don't want to run 4 reejereys and 4 images make sometimes bad hands). I'm testing what to include. Jitte is slow and can be destroyed, dismember meh, standstill is tricky in many MU, cosi's trickster is cute but I'd always prefer any other merfolk...Quote:
Originally Posted by f7eleven
However the Cavern build is interesting, if I was going to a tournament today (which is the case, 5 rounds) I would run the cavern build, even though I have less experience. I don't know if I would play with it or UGr threshold, but if so I would write a report.
Dismember meh? Really? Shit man throw that card in your deck for 2 weeks and then see if you still feel the same way.
I did end up cutting the maindeck jitte and the 13th island for 2 standstill, and the maindeck spell pierce for a dismember. here's the list I'm taking to a tourney tomorrow:
12 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
4 Aether Vial
4 Cursecatcher
4 Daze
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
3 Phantasmal Image
4 Silvergill Adept
2 Standstill
1 Dismember
2 Merrow Reejerey
4 True-Name Nemesis
4 Force of Will
Sideboard:
1 Flusterstorm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Spell Pierce
1 Swan Song
1 Carry Away
1 Cursed Totem
1 Back to Basics
1 Dismember
1 Misdirection
2 Submerge
I feel like that build needs another Island.
I was speaking about maindeck, I run 2 in the SB and it's really good, however sometimes is (another) dead card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
I agree with you about f7eleven list, however it feels really tight.
I would cut a True-Name if your otherwise unwilling to cut a grey land. Move the True-Name to the side. Not sure what I would cut from the side though.
I really think there's only three flex slots in this deck since TNN came out; slots I've filled with Jitte, 1-2 Spell Pierce, a 13th Island, and now Dismember and 2 Standstill. I really liked Jitte and the extra land when D&T was at its peak following Legacy Champs. I really liked 10 main deck counterspells when Sneak & Show was at its peak. Right now Stoneforge Mystic decks and Team America have earned my primary focus, hence the main deck Spell Pierce becoming Dismember. I was also siding in an extra Jitte in these match ups but after more testing I was actually siding out the Jitte. So I cut it for a Standstill. But I didn't want to play just one, and felt losing the 13th Island would be okay since I was adding card draw (which only requires one blue) and there's less Ports/Thalia being played in the meta game. I guess I'll find out tomorrow how much I miss that extra Island.
The sideboard has had way more turn over, but I'm absolutely in love with where it's at currently.
How did you do at the tournament? Any thoughts to share?Quote:
Originally Posted by f7eleven
Thanks
Lands: 20
12 island
3 Mutavault
3 Wasteland
2 Cavern of souls
Istant: 10
4 force of will
4 daze
2 Spellpierce
Enchantment: 3
3 Standstill
Artifacts: 4
4 Aether vial
Creatures: 23
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill adept
4 Lord of atlantis
4 master of the pearl trident
4 true name nemesis
3 phntasmal image
Thi is an idea of a list that popped into my mind, any thoughts?
Hello to everyone, I am another Merfolk player :)
I have read all the last pages of this topic, and I have found very interesting thoughts and ideas.
Zerkor, that is practically the same list that I play. It is a good list but it depends from your "style" of playing and from your meta naturally :)
I am more like a tempo player who is playing a tempo-aggro deck that is the reason why I like that list ^^
Personally I tried a lot of different solutions (Thassa, Ponder, Merrow R., master of waves, Jitte etc) and that is the list that make me feel more comfortable.
I am wondering to try Stifle next week ( I play a local tournament every Tuesday) removing the spell pierce :) I will let you know.
Simo
Ps happy new year!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk