Re: [Deck] The EPIC Elf Survival
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elvish-Champion
Hey Guys,
I' ve tested my Survival Elves List very often last weeks, and I have to say, that it works fine.
Here's the list.
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
8 Forest
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Natural Order
4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Priest of Titania
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Llanowar Elves
2 Imperious Perfect
2 Elvish Champion
3 Wirewood Symbiote
2 Quirion Ranger
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Anger
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Progenitus
2 Wren's Run Vanquisher
Sideboard??
3 Krosan Grip/or elves that can destroy artifacts, enchantments.
4 Chalice of the Void/ Thorn of Amethyst?
1 Magus of the Moon
3 Red Elemental Blast
4 Relic of Progenitus
I'm not really sure what to put into sideboard.
I hope you have suggestions to help me.
Thanks
I really think you should be playing a full set of Quirion Ranger. This card helps with mana acceleration, both when you are missing land drops and with interactions with priests and archdruids. It also plays nicely with Imperious Perfect. Multiple rangers can really help you generate a ton of mana.
What do you cut to fit them in? I would cut Wren's Run Vanquisher. I don't like this card at all of Legacy elves. Yes, it is an undercosted 3/3 that can always trade with a goyf. The problem is that it is too slow for this kind of deck. You really shouldn't be worried about finding an answer for goyf becuase elves should be able to win a lot faster than decks that play goyf. You pretty much want your elves to do one of three things: (1) accelerate mana, (2) pump other elves, or (3) draw cards. Vanquisher does none of these things and doesn't belong in the deck.
I prefer Viridian Zealot to the Shaman, because it's nice to have the option of hitting enchantments (such as Counterbalance or Moat). You also might try one or two Joraga Warcaller. It is a game-ender if you have a lot of mana.
I eventually cut my Wirewood Symbiotes because they are not as necessary in this deck anymore. With all the "lords," elves are not as easily wiped out by pyroclasm/firespout spells, and not many decks play Wrath spells. You could also get away with cutting a couple Sylvan Messangers. You could probably cut your land count down to 17 and still be fine. In their place, I would add Elvish Spirit Guide to help you power out your Natural Order and other spells. Also, depending on the meta, you might run Faerie Macabre as a one-of. It's not an elf, but it's nice to be able to fetch with Survival.
Re: [Deck] The EPIC Elf Survival
[QUOTE=Justin;458470]I really think you should be playing a full set of Quirion Ranger.
I prefer Viridian Zealot to the Shaman, because it's nice to have the option of hitting enchantments (such as Counterbalance or Moat). You also might try one or two Joraga Warcaller. It is a game-ender if you have a lot of mana.
First to Quirion Ranger.
Quirion Range is a very good card, but i think that you always want to have only 1 of them. In most situations you don't have enough lands to use his ability involvy. I also prefer Wren's Run Vanquisher, because they are good against big guys who I would lose against, for examply Phyrexian Dreadnought or Knight of the Reliquary. They are also good against ZOO. (In my Meta there are always many Dreadstills or Zoos present.)
Are you sure that Zealot is the best choice? he can get stifled, has manacost 2 (spell snare) only 1 Toughness and cost effectively 1 more mana.
I know that i can destroy enchantments with him, and the only one on which its usefull is moat, but the chance that i play against a moat is that low that I prefer Viridian Shaman? And he isn't that good against Counterbalance because he will countered for sure. In most situations its more possible to have an usefull artifact target.
And to Joraga Warcaller I only have to say, I "hate this card". I know i have a lot of mana and so on, but I prefer putting many creatures with my survival on the board( symbiote, messenger, etc) and dont want to spend the mana on guys like him.
It's might the best topdeck card in a patt situation, but that's all.
Re: [Deck] The EPIC Elf Survival
[QUOTE=Elvish-Champion;458650]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Justin
I really think you should be playing a full set of Quirion Ranger.
I prefer
Viridian Zealot to the Shaman, because it's nice to have the option of hitting enchantments (such as Counterbalance or Moat). You also might try one or two
Joraga Warcaller. It is a game-ender if you have a lot of mana.
First to Quirion Ranger.
Quirion Range is a very good card, but i think that you always want to have only 1 of them. In most situations you don't have enough lands to use his ability involvy. I also prefer Wren's Run Vanquisher, because they are good against big guys who I would lose against, for examply Phyrexian Dreadnought or Knight of the Reliquary. They are also good against ZOO. (In my Meta there are always many Dreadstills or Zoos present.)
Are you sure that Zealot is the best choice? he can get stifled, has manacost 2 (spell snare) only 1 Toughness and cost effectively 1 more mana.
I know that i can destroy enchantments with him, and the only one on which its usefull is moat, but the chance that i play against a moat is that low that I prefer Viridian Shaman? And he isn't that good against Counterbalance because he will countered for sure. In most situations its more possible to have an usefull artifact target.
And to Joraga Warcaller I only have to say, I
"hate this card". I know i have a lot of mana and so on, but I prefer putting many creatures with my survival on the board( symbiote, messenger, etc) and dont want to spend the mana on guys like him.
It's might the best topdeck card in a patt situation, but that's all.
Ranger is great in multiples. They can allow to to untap your priests, archdruids, perfects, etc., multiple times and generate a lot of mana or creatures. Again, my problem with Vanquisher is that elves generally don't need to block. Hardly anyone plays Dreadnoughts anymore because Progenitus and Emrakul are more popular and Vanquisher cannot block them.
There are a lot of enchantments in this format, including some that Elves just lose to, so it's nice to have Zealot.
Warcaller is great as a one-of. You can fetch it with Survival when you have a lot of mana. Of course, you probably aren't generating a lot of mana because you aren't playing enough Rangers. If you up your Ranger count, you'll see how much better Warcaller is. He's also not terrible if you play him as a lord of three mana.
Re: [Deck] The EPIC Elf Survival
Hi guys
Is it possible to play a different mana base like, only two taiga ?
And why only two imperious perfect ? Seriously, this card is way too strong to play only two of them. I would do -1 elvish champion +1 imperious perfect (it let you fetch the champion when you would win).
Genesis ? Spore frog (in sb for spore) ?
Re: [Deck] The EPIC Elf Survival
[QUOTE=Justin;459352]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elvish-Champion
Ranger is great in multiples. They can allow to to untap your priests, archdruids, perfects, etc., multiple times and generate a lot of mana or creatures. Again, my problem with Vanquisher is that elves generally don't need to block. Hardly anyone plays Dreadnoughts anymore because Progenitus and Emrakul are more popular and Vanquisher cannot block them.
There are a lot of enchantments in this format, including some that Elves just lose to, so it's nice to have Zealot.
Warcaller is great as a one-of. You can fetch it with Survival when you have a lot of mana. Of course, you probably aren't generating a lot of mana because you aren't playing enough Rangers. If you up your Ranger count, you'll see how much better Warcaller is. He's also not terrible if you play him as a lord of three mana.
Yes thats maybe right, but how many lands do you play? Normally i draw not more than 2 or 3 lands, i want to win within 4-5 Rounds and I won't bounce that many lands in this situation, I can't bounce that many if i have used him already, that's why i prefer to put Wirewood Symbiotes. And the Zealot kills what? Counterbalance? He cannot kill something else. So he is generally useless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
frenchy-man
Hi guys
Is it possible to play a different mana base like, only two taiga ?
And why only two imperious perfect ? Seriously, this card is way too strong to play only two of them. I would do -1 elvish champion +1 imperious perfect (it let you fetch the champion when you would win).
Genesis ? Spore frog (in sb for spore) ?
Genesis is a bad idea, it costs 1 mana to put him in your grave first. than 3 in your upkeep, and he slows that much that it isnt very funny. Many Imperious Perfects are also not very good, also the Champion, because if you are already very fast, you only put 1 or 2 of them so that you can rumble in for full damage and you don't try to get the Overkill.
Spore Frog is useless. Where would you sideboard him in?
He doesn't work against Tendrils and against emrakul or so he is useless also against progenitus, it give you 1 more round, but it's generally very very bad.
2 Taigas are possible as well. Maybe play more fetchies or let it like this, its also fine if you got the luck to draw at least 1.
Re: [Deck] The EPIC Elf Survival
[QUOTE=Elvish-Champion;461320]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Justin
Yes thats maybe right, but how many lands do you play? Normally i draw not more than 2 or 3 lands, i want to win within 4-5 Rounds and I won't bounce that many lands in this situation, I can't bounce that many if i have used him already, that's why i prefer to put Wirewood Symbiotes. And the Zealot kills what? Counterbalance? He cannot kill something else. So he is generally useless.
I've probably played this deck a thousand times, and I can't remember too many times when I needed to use Quirion Rangers ability but could not because I didn't have a land. Wirewood symbiotes can save you a guy, but they are also not elves themselves. Quirion Ranger has all the benefits of being an elf and has synergy with so many cards. Unless you are dodging removal, it's usually better to bounce one of your lands than one of your guys.
You are being silly in your arguments about Zealot. You ever have Engineered Plauge (which Zealot can kill if you have a lord in play) or Moat (which completely locks your deck down if you aren't running enchantment removal) dropped on you? You ever play against Enchantress? Lands (Manabond, Exploration). How about opposing Survivals? Trust me, there are plenty of reasons to play Zealot.
Re: [Deck] The EPIC Elf Survival
So today I've piloted the Elvish-Champion's deck to a first place out of 41 participants in 6 rounds of swiss. The deck was the same as posted above only -1 Elvish Champion, -2 Vanquisher, -1 Shaman / +4 Elvish Spirit Guide. They were actually pretty good all day long and helped me to pull out Turn 2 Natural Order
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=36604
I beat:
Reanimator 2-1 (lose against T2 Iona on green)
Bant Aggro 2-0
Merfolk 2-0
Belcher 2-0
Death and Taxes 2-0
New Horizons 2-0
The deck worked like a gem all day long and is definitely a strong contender in the current metagame.
My SB was:
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Caller of the Claw
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Krosan Grip
Re: [Deck] The EPIC Elf Survival
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Muradin
So today I've piloted the Elvish-Champion's deck to a first place out of 41 participants in 6 rounds of swiss. The deck was the same as posted above only -1 Elvish Champion, -2 Vanquisher, -1 Shaman / +4 Elvish Spirit Guide. They were actually pretty good all day long and helped me to pull out Turn 2 Natural Order
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=36604
I beat:
Reanimator 2-1 (lose against T2 Iona on green)
Bant Aggro 2-0
Merfolk 2-0
Belcher 2-0
Death and Taxes 2-0
New Horizons 2-0
The deck worked like a gem all day long and is definitely a strong contender in the current metagame.
My SB was:
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Caller of the Claw
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Krosan Grip
Congratz on the win! It's nice to see this deck doing well, I've picked it up recently and I feel it have many tools to do well in current metagame.
Can you give some details about your matches? Like how you beat Belcher(chalice helped here, I suppose), Reanimator (2 Relic of Progenitus were enough?), and how was the merfolk matchup (I find myself losing this more than I think I should, either because of Jiite or Sovereign and Wake Thrasher).
I'm also unsure about the NO + Progenitus package. Many times when I use the Progenitus kill I fell I could have won with elves anyway. How it worked for you?
Re: [Deck] The EPIC Elf Survival
@lebarion:
I answer for Muradin, because he said that as well :D
Well it wasn't that hard against belcher because he only placed tokens which were too slow against mass of elves. Both games happened like this.
Meerfolk was easy because he hasn't good enough counters to counter Survival of the Fittest and/or Natural Order, both games were very easy to win.
Progenitus was a very good win option. Often he could have won without Progenitus, but it's always a good "joker" if it goes hard.
That's all : )
Re: [Deck] The EPIC Elf Survival
I've piloted a Survival Elves list to a first place out of 24 people in 5 rounds of swiss last saturday. You can find the report here.
My matches were:
MonoBrown Stax 2-1
Merfolk 2-0
Countertop Ugw with NO-Prog 2-0
Supreme Blue 2-0
Dredge - ID (played for fun and won 2-0)
I opted for a list without Natural Order. I also use one or two more lands than the usual lists as I feel they are important if your opponent can burn your mana elves.
As you can see by my results, the deck was great all day :). I'm pretty satisfied with it, the only slots I'm not sure being the Wren's Run Vanquishers.
Re: [Deck] The EPIC Elf Survival
New card:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...8&d=1277957032
Basically, a survival with a single activation a turn (unless you have Ranger or Symbiote online), and a couple of legs.
Might find its place here?
Re: [Deck] The EPIC Elf Survival
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GreenOne
I was thinking about it right now. In a list with Survival and no Natural Order (like mine) It obviously doesn't replace Survival because of summoning sickness and tapping for activating the ability. But it provides more "Survival effects", and dodge Needle or enchantment hate (although I see this as a non-issue).
Right now I'm not very excited about in this shell, but maybe its place is in a list with Natural Order and no Survival, for example, replacing Survival in Elvish-Champion's list.
A card that deserves to be tested a lot, for sure.
Re: [Deck] The EPIC Elf Survival
I'm puzzled ... All elf decks state that Zoo/Boros are even matchups... But I can't simply understand how...
In each match, both in testing and tournamet, I get my balls burned out when piloting elves...
I've tested the combo Elves, Survival Elves, Aggro Elves with and without NO...
The only card that remotely gives me a theoretical chance at winning is a T2 NO hoping that they can't burn the sac in response or burn it out even earlier...
What's the deal? How should I play against Zoo? Slow roll them or just straight out force in my creatures.
I've been trying everything without success, even maindeck Absolute Law etc.
Re: [Deck] The EPIC Elf Survival
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hawdes
The only card that remotely gives me a theoretical chance at winning is a T2 NO hoping that they can't burn the sac in response or burn it out even earlier...
They can't burn the sac in response. Sacrifice is a cost.
Re: [Deck] The EPIC Elf Survival
I don't like Fauna Shaman because you have to wait a turn to use it and it can only be used once per turn. Elves is a deck that is about speed, and the Shaman is too slow. I would rather play Elvish Visionary (which doesn't make the cut, either) because it nets me an extra card right away. Also, if you want to play the Shaman, what do you take out? I suppose it is better than Wren's Run Vanquisher, but you should not be playing those anyway.
Re: [Deck] The EPIC Elf Survival
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hawdes
I'm puzzled ... All elf decks state that Zoo/Boros are even matchups... But I can't simply understand how...
In each match, both in testing and tournamet, I get my balls burned out when piloting elves...
I've tested the combo Elves, Survival Elves, Aggro Elves with and without NO...
The only card that remotely gives me a theoretical chance at winning is a T2 NO hoping that they can't burn the sac in response or burn it out even earlier...
What's the deal? How should I play against Zoo? Slow roll them or just straight out force in my creatures.
I've been trying everything without success, even maindeck Absolute Law etc.
I believe the Zoo matchup is positive if and only if your opponnent doesn't know how to play against you. If they try to win the race, chances are your elves suddenly became huge and probably forestwalkers. Anyway, your options are:
- with Survival Elves, you can try to (1) play Survival and slow roll untill elves have Haste, and then play a lot of elves, chainning then with Messengers and Titanias, or (2) Play a token generator (Imperious Perfect or Wren's Run Packmaster) to block their guys and then win on top of card advantage. Packmaster shines here as he has a big body, too.
- with Combo elves, win in the turn 2 or 3, when the opponnent hopefully has tapped to play a dude.
- with NO Elves, play an early NO (note what sco0ter said, they can't burn your elf in response to NO)
- with Aggro elves, you can build your deck to beat Zoo, using Wren's Run Vanquisher, Wren's Run Packmaster, Wilt-leaf Liege and Wilt-leaf Cavalier. You're probably weakening other matchups doing so, though.
The problem is that your opponent can nullify most of these options with certain amount of removal, and Zoo packs more than enough of them.
The other problem is that when sideboarding against Zoo, just like versus combo or Dredge, you must found the hate in the very beggining of the game, otherwise it could be too late.
I've tested a lot of options (Absolute Law, Spore Frog, Eladamri, Lord of Leaves, Wall of Roots) and had some success with 4 Lightning Bolt. Swords to Plowshares is probably even better. It's not like the matchup is wonderful with 4 removal spells, but removing an early beater or a Lavamancer can buy you time to make your elves big enough.
Re: [Deck] The EPIC Elf Survival
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sco0ter
They can't burn the sac in response. Sacrifice is a cost.
Yeah, I know... I phrased it like an idiot... I ment that if they keep my board clean, I can't resolve NO.
I just put a new list together that I will try out for a couple of days now with Fauna instead of Survival and some hate cards against Zoo.
I'm thinking Deathmark or Swords to Plowshares, but I'm not that sure?
I'm running some hatebears in my board and Horizon maindeck aswell as 1 off Savannah. It would be easier for me to get W than B, so Swords seems the way to go.
But I'm not sure.
All the advice I can get is appriciated, since that Zoo matchup makes me pull all my hair out...
I've tried Wren's Run Packmaster before, but my experience are that he's too mana intensive. It's hard to get him on the board due to Non existing elves and abscense of mana for generating tokens. They've bolted the elf I'm championing in response too many times giving them 2 for 1.
It's difficult to obtain 2 creatures on the board since they burn out everything quick so that we can't resolve NO when we hit 4 mana.
The list I'm running right now:
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
1 Oran-Rief, The Vastwood
4 Wasteland
3 Forest
1 Taiga
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Savannah
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
3 Wirewood Symbiote
2 Quirion Ranger
3 Priest of Titania
4 Fauna Shaman
3 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Elvish Champion
4 Elvish Archdruid
2 Imperious Perfect
4 Sylvan Messenger
1 Norwood Priestess
1 Deranged Hermit
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Anger
1 Progenitus
4 Natural Order
Sideboard:
4 Krosan Grip
3 Swords to Plowshares (I really hate zoo)
3 Chalice of the void (don't really know what to use it against besides combo?)
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Caller of the Claw
1 Magus of the Moon
Re: [Deck] The EPIC Elf Survival
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hawdes
I'm thinking Deathmark or Swords to Plowshares, but I'm not that sure?
Swords to Plowshares is better. Deathmark doesn't kill Lavamancer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hawdes
All the advice I can get is appriciated, since that Zoo matchup makes me pull all my hair out...
I see your point on Packmaster.
I've actually given up the Zoo matchup, but if I would try to hate on them, I'd start with 4 Wilt-leaf Cavaliers MD and 4 Plowshares SD.
Another idea: Maybe it's too self-destructive, but what about Chalice for 1 Against zoo, siding out some of your 1CC guys?
Re: [Deck] The EPIC Elf Survival
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lebarion
Swords to Plowshares is better. Deathmark doesn't kill Lavamancer.
I see your point on Packmaster.
I've actually given up the Zoo matchup, but if I would try to hate on them, I'd start with 4 Wilt-leaf Cavaliers MD and 4 Plowshares SD.
Another idea: Maybe it's too self-destructive, but what about Chalice for 1 Against zoo, siding out some of your 1CC guys?
Siding in Chalice vs. Zoo has also been a thought. But I haven't been so sure and too much of a coward trying that...
It doesn't hurt that much to lose Wirewood, and some 1 drop mana elves to be honest. They get burned off anyway.
And we still have game with cmc 2 and 3 dudes. And with Fauna, chalice @ 1 makes all 1CC guys tutor fodder.
So it might be worth a shot... It must hurt Zoo more than Elves. Giving us much more tempo and denying Lavamancer's, Nactal's, and Lightning bolt to start with.
What's your thought on Norwood Priestess? I haven't seen many lists playing her. Could be nice when you need a way to get dudes into play with low resources. If you have Prog in hand you could easily drop him from your hand, or even a lord/hermit/packmaster.
I've added Deranged Hermit instead of Packmaster to give me "CA" in tokens. To get the same amount of dudes on the board with packmaster costs 12 mana + the initial 4 for the packmaster. Hermit only costs 5 + echo if you want him to stick around, and he could be bounced with Wirewood for token shinnanigans.
Re: [Deck] The EPIC Elf Survival
Hello, this is my first post here =P
I found this forum and this topic while searching for some proper list for my elves deck, or just something that could give me some new idea to tweak it a bit...
At the moment i'm playing this list
My "standard" sideboard is this one :
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Caller of the claw
2 Choke
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Krosan Grip
1 Harmonic Convergence
I find myself playing pretty much evenly with most of the decks; the most problematic card so far is "Hibernation" since it's way worse than a Perish which i can pretty much counter with the caller of the claw.
About the Norwood Priestess it looks pretty nice, i never saw it listed either but i'm actually thinking of picking one to test it out, with Qurion Rangers and Wirewood Symbiote it could start some pretty nice combo.
