With what mana were you going to cast Thought Gorger? And of what use would it be to DR into play if you have no cards in hand?
Either that was serious trolling or you are responding to a topic you don't full comprehend.
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With what mana were you going to cast Thought Gorger? And of what use would it be to DR into play if you have no cards in hand?
Either that was serious trolling or you are responding to a topic you don't full comprehend.
He probably meant to reanimate himQuote:
Originally Posted by Dredgehammer
IMO he is not better then sphinx who actually comes into play drawing you cards while Gorger is situational. You have to reanimate him and then sac him for another dredge or cabal therapy. Also, you may not have cards in your hand most of the time. Not worth the spot over sphynx I think..
This deck should run Entomb.
I mean, cmon, it's obvious.
I haven't tried Entomb. What can Entomb replace in your opening hand and be good?
Dredgers: It can tutor for any dredger.
Draw: It can tutor for Deep Analysis - helpful if you have Lion's Eye Diamond or 2 mana sources. So it can sometimes get the card draw spell you want.
Discard: It cannot help with Putrid Imp or Tireless Tribes or Lion's Eye Diamonds or Cephalid Coliseums. You could get Cabal Therapy, but that is the worst discard outlet.
Mana: It could put Dakmor Salvage in the yard which is way too slow. Besides, if you could get Black to cast Entomb you really don't need a second source that will only get you black. So it isn't very useful here.
Combo pieces: generally there are plenty of Bridges, Dread Returns, and targets (Grave Troll counts!) that if you have already started chain-dredging you don't need Entomb to do this.
Entomb seems best at getting Grave-Troll in the GY and somewhat useful if you wanted DA. If the main purpose is putting a dredger in the grave yard I would probably just run more dredgers in those slots instead. What lines of play make Entomb better than additional dredgers?
Hey nQn! Would you mind posting the list you played at the GP? :)
I just tried to read through the thread to make it up myself, but it was too confusing :D!
Im usually playing Non-Led, but I got enough cards atm to trade a playset of LEDS :)! I'll just look what I like more.
Thanks, Maarten
Entomb seems to help board scenarios a little bit more by grabbing anything with Flashback, though that's not huge deal. I agree there are plenty of targets for dread return, but having any creature seems very useful. Second, entomb can function as a foil to reanimator if they go the exhume route. It's a little different from the just getting a dredger, because it's getting it straight in the graveyard for you and circumventing the discard outlets usually needed. It could potentially get you a free narcomeba or an ichorid in the grave to bring back in the upkeep. Just a couple other thoughts. No opinion on if it should be used or not.
I am going to go out on a limb on this one and say: Entomb is bad for LED Ichorid. There are just too many better cards, and taking any of them out for this card is just going to hurt it's efficiency. You can quote me on that.
I agree, entomb is really bad for LED Ichorid, but it works wonders in the other version.
The only time I think Entomb would be really good is late game when you still haven't seen your Dread Return target. Bam, put Iona there. (hopefully win the game) Though I can see a T1 Entomb for Troll then T2 breakthrough for an attempt to win but T1 putrid imp/tribe is better because they will consistently put your highest dredger in the yard, and sometimes laugh at goyf in the process. Also I have to point out that getting a creature out early is important for an early dread return which is very needed sometimes.
Glad of seeing this deck back in DTW, is it a real one??
On topic: I tested entomb and it simply didn't make it! :(
Tried this list out for the Seattle 5k:
Creatures:
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Angel of Despair
Spells
4 Bridge from Below
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Breakthrough
2 Deep Analysis
2 Dread Return
4 Unmask
4 Cabal Therapy
Land
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Cephalid Coliseum
3 City of Brass
Sideboard:
4 Chain of Vapor
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Tireless Tribe
1 City of Brass
1 Ancestor's Chosen
1 Nature's Claim
I wanted to play something else but dredge was all that I had completed so I sleeved them up and begged lady luck to give me a break. I decided to work 4 Unmask maindeck to give a little extra maindeck disruption pzazz, Which worked fairly well when I got it. Next I switched the 2nd DR target to Angel of Despair, which I figured would at least help a fraction of a percent vs lands or stax or enchantress etc. In addition it can be pitched to Unmask/removed for Ichorid and has evasion, which gives it a leg up over [c]Terastodon[/c] or [c]Woodfal Primus[/c] (although primus does have trample, flying is just better in most cases). Overall, I was happy with the switch. I thought the sideboard needed a lil tweeking as well, since reanimator and lands need some grave hate to disrupt them, and also because I correctly guessed that leyline would be seldom played, and the diversity of hate would be high. Obv. the Wispmare I originally had wouldn't be too great if I'm taking a wild guess as to whether or not the opponent has Leyline or not, so I just threw a Nature's Claim in to replace it, since that hits crypt/relic as well. Grudge were good as is because more often than not I would have extra cards to side out anyways, and most decks pack some number of arty's maindeck that the Grudges could wreck if I didn't need them for a Crypt or Relic. Honestly though, while they aren't good enough to replace Chain of Vapor, Nature's Claim was so good when I had it that I would suggest running it if there's any possible way to make the space.
Unfortunately for poor little me, Luck would not be on my side that night. I did fairly well in the first two matches, tying with Lands when I probably should have lost that one. Luckily I AoD'ed his Manabond early to slow him way down, and he could only glacial-lock for about 5 more turns before I got him. He wasn't happy with the tie, but I certainly saw it as better than losing lol. Second I played Countertop Foundry, and I won in 2, with very little resistance from him. In his defense he did mull to 5 the first game and to 6 the second. He crypted me once second game but I recovered fairly quickly and won with a 10/10 troll. I got done early so I had a chat to see how my friends were doing. All of us but John (t4 John) were sucking pretty badly or doing mediocre. I jokingly said "watch now I'm going to play Stax and Enchantress for the next two rounds." Round three starts and I laugh as I see T1 Tomb, Mox Diamond, Random Hate Arty (think it was Trinisphere). The guy was cool though and we just kind of joked around as I tried to play through everything that makes Ichorid miserable AKA Everything Stax Does. The good news is we had enough time after the match to get Chipotle =D. The next two rounds I play vs New Horizons, which is a very solid deck that I had 0 familiarity with. I remember having a dredge into 5 lands while staring down at a Terrivore lol. So I decided to drop and watch John at the top tables after round 5, having gone 2-3-1. I knew that Ichorid wouldn't be an extremely good choice in the meta, but, like I said earlier, its what I had and so I had to try with it. I really should have practiced more with it beforehand too because I did make a few mistakes I could have avoided if I had gotten more practice. Unfortunately work kept me busy nearly every legacy night since January, when I finally got my LED's =(. Oh well, I still love the deck and will play it in smaller events for a while.
Good call on angel of dispair. It's a great black (ichorid fodder) creature. And i included it in my list.
At first glance, i would not run unmask main deck now. I prefer no addition disrruption other than cabal therapy. I know, unmask it's pro combo yes, but i want as much cards as possible in my hand!! I leave them for side (4x).
Another thing is that you dont run witness / sphinx what slows down terrible to capability of combing of!
Take a look to my list for discussion:
/ Lands
4 [AN] City of Brass
3 [OD] Cephalid Coliseum
4 [TSB] Gemstone Mine
1 [VI] Undiscovered Paradise
// Creatures
4 [RAV] Stinkweed Imp
4 [TO] Ichorid
4 [TO] Putrid Imp
4 [RAV] Golgari Grave-Troll
4 [FUT] Narcomoeba
3 [RAV] Golgari Thug
1 [RAV] Flame-Kin Zealot
1 [FD] Eternal Witness
1 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 [OD] Tireless Tribe
1 [GP] Angel of Despair
// Spells
4 [FUT] Bridge from Below
4 [TO] Breakthrough
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
3 [TSP] Dread Return
1 [TO] Deep Analysis
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [ON] Chain of Vapor
SB: 3 [WL] Firestorm
SB: 3 [TSP] Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 [10E] Ancestor's Chosen
SB: 4 [MM] Unmask
I think less than 4 coliseums is a mistake, because it's an uncounterable draw spell that doubles as a mana source in a pinch, and it comboes insanely well with LED, especially on the draw. 4 maindeck DR targets seems like too many, and one more deep analysis is also nice. One maindeck Tribe should either be something else or supplemented with more out of the SB.
The manabase of the deck i mean MD and side is fully coloured. So blue is a spot. 4 Colisum cut lots of important spells, such as putrids, cabals, tribes and so on. But due to its strenght as a combo card i wouldn't run less than 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias
I don`t know, maybe 4 is too much, maybe no. It's circunstantial. 3 Of them are for the win, the other is a big girl that solves a potetial md hate/trouble.
+1 For an additional tribe post board!
Here is a dread return target in M11 that might be good enough to make the deck. I know that I will be testing it because "Free Zombies" is what this deck is all about. Thoughts?
Grave Titan
4bb
Creature - Giant Mythic Rare
Deathtouch
Whenever Grave Titan enters the battlefield or attacks, put two 2/2 black Zombie creature tokens onto the battlefield.
Death in form and function.
Illus. Nils Hamm #97/249 6/6
Looks good at frst glance, but i'm not sure about deathtouch...It puts zombies but removes bridges....i feel a bit confused right now.
Hello,
I've been playing merfolk until recently but I think it's a bad metagame choice in the post-mystical tutor meta. Thus, I've been following this thread for awhile and have been putting Ichorid together. I want to ask- why isn't greater gargadon still in the board? in what matchups is it most powerful? thanks.
A friend of mine suggested something that I thing deserves at least some testing.
Playing 4 Leyline of Anticipation either MD or SB, don't quite know.
http://image3.examiner.com/images/bl...ticipation.jpg
It looks a little underwhelming at first, but think about it. In the MD we don't have a single instant spell, just being able to cast all your stuff at instant speed is a fine advantage. But if you look deeper into it, you'll see that it allows you to play around several hate cards, given you have the right cards in the grave. Not Leyline of the Void, but that's another story.
Let's see what it can do for you:
Say the opponent starts with a Crypt/Relic and you have Leyline of Anticipation:
- You can start with a Imp/Tribe/Study and sit on it dredging with what you get. When the opponent tries to break the hate, you can go off in response with Breakthrough/Study/Coliseum. Then you can get enough tokens and a reanimation target into play before the hate removes your grave. Outside of Wrath and maybe Firespout (probably not) you win. But that shouldn't be that much of a problem either, beucase you can instant speed Therapy.
Say your opponent Bolts his own cat in response to a Therapy:
- You can either respond with a draw Spell, flipping more Moebas and then Dread Return getting a huge amount of Zombies or simply sacrifice your other non-token creatures getting a bunch of zombies with the Bridges that otherwise(no Leyline in play) would be gone for good before you could do anything else.
- It allows you to let your opponent gessing what is your play all the time, forcing him to let mana open and being careful with every spell he casts. You can just cast everything on his EOT!
I could go on listing the situations that the Leylines gives you an advantage, but I'll let you figure that out by yourself.
A you can see, the Leyline adds a hole new level of interaction between Ichorid and other decks. The real question are:
- Is this what the deck needs to rise to the top?
- Do the advantages warrant the inclusion of 4 dead cards in a somewhat tight deck?
- Does it help you fight hate enough to justify its inclusion?
Please discuss.
Tonight I tested a lot of side boarded games with Leyline of Sanctity against Charbelcher. We played 20-25 games and the Leyline was in my opening hand 8 times. I mulligan'd a lot (which I do anyway). I won 7 out of 8 games where I played T0 LoS and maybe could have won the 8th one if I had Therapy'd myself to discard my Dredger instead of worrying about Burning Wish (it was the first game I played with Leyline; after losing I decided to just always race once LoS was in play).
1 of the 7 LoS games I won was a 4 card hand with LoS, Cephalid Coliseum, Putrid Imp and City of Brass. I even won a game where I *slow dredged* against Charbelcher with a 6 card Leyline opening hand. I was quite impressed. For the Charbelcher matchup in particular they can Burning Wish for Reverent Silence, but otherwise you're racing goblins and I won almost every time.
I am hoping Leyline of Sanctity plays just as well against creature decks with Crypt / Relic / Ravenous Trap. In my limited testing it was an absolute beating, try it!
Sanctity leyline doesn't work against relic since it doesn't target. It does work against crypt and trap however and can be a blowout however it has a problem if you don't have it in your opener, it is nigh uncastable in this deck and as such I prefer cabal therapy and ancient grudge as the cards against trap and relic/crypt. Grudge is hard to best in a deck that can dredge into it to force them to pop their relic/trap.
I've always thought of what it would be like if all the cards in ichorid were instant speed and as such the leyline of anticipation fits the bill perfectly since vedalken orrery is uncastable in this deck. Only problem with it is again the problem with the new white leyline. You need it in your opener or it is deader than a doornail however it would be sweet to make people pop crypt then breakthrough in response and combo out all in response to a crypt/relic/trap activation.
This deck might resurge in popularity now that reanimator is gone so people aren't hating out GYs so hardcore like.