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This is a version I've been testing based on what I've seen on MTGO. Genesis Wave is really insane, much better than I anticipated.
4 Birchlore Rangers
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Forest
2 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Summoner's Pact
3 Fyndhorn Elves
3 Wirewood Symbiote
3 Elvish Visionary
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Genesis Wave
1 Regal Force
1 Priest of Titania
The shusher you don't need because your turn into an aggro deck with the leylines if you play a deck with heavy counters or countertop.
The regal force in the board was a thought but I found that I never wished it was there. I think I will test it more though. Regal force is good because it is 7 mana, making it 9 might lose its value, maybe not though, I'll keep testing.
If they know the deck they could counter Living Wish and you'd be relegated to the aggro backup plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by k2thej
What's the plan here, belch up enough Elves to chain Genesis Waves and get your whole deck on the board?Quote:
Originally Posted by voltron00x
[QUOTE=Shabbaman;514888]If they know the deck they could counter Living Wish and you'd be relegated to the aggro backup plan.
QUOTE]
If they let us combo until the living wish for Emrakul, in all likelyhood, they will probably lose anyway. They're highest priority is to stop us from comboing. They won't hold a counter through the entire combo while you fill the board with a million elves just to stop you from getting Emrakul, they will try to stop you're combo before it starts. I really don't think it's an issue.
I agree it's not the most likely scenario to get your wish countered...
Shabbaman – Yea, the idea is that Genesis Wave is sort of like Glimpse 5-7. Using just Archdruid, you can power out huge Waves on turn 3. I have waved for 9 on turn 3, and have hard-cast Emrakul on turn 4. Wave into Emrakul ends the game. I added an Eternal Witness to the list also, since that is an insane Wave target (as it rebuys the Wave). As long as you hit anything to untap your existing Archdruid, Wave will win you the game. Its an interesting way to make the deck less all-in on Glimpse without relying on spells from another color (like the Elves decks from 1-16 in San Jose did).
Why set up your deck to put out a wave of guys on turn three for a turn four win if you can set it up to win on turn two or three without genesis wave? Seems like a version of the build where the only difference is it's a turn slower. I might be missing something but I don't see any advantages.Quote:
Originally Posted by voltron00x
Green Sun's Zenith XG
Sorcery (R)
Search your library for a green creature card with converted mana cost X or less and put it onto the battlefield. Shuffle Green Sun's Zenith into its owner's library.
If this is real it will be the nuts in here. Replacement for Pact? Costs only 1 mana more, and doesnt have the nasty upkeep effect.
Edit: Its real.
New list?? No pact, 4 Zenith and a nice toolbox of green in the MD? Living wish might be unneeded now?
Seems pretty sweet- a better chord of calling. I think Summoner's Pact is still better since it is free during combo without the worry of paying the cost after. Still, it might be worth playing 2 of or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1maarten1
It's not better than wish, because 1 mana really counts for this decks when starting to combo, but it is definitely and improved Chord of Calling which is a card I was running in my list, although I used it to get non-green creatures (Burrenton forge-tender,Yixlid Jailer) into the field at instant speed, which this doesn't do either...Quote:
Originally Posted by 1maarten1
This thing is insanely good anyway.
On another topic:
I have tested the Emrakul list and I just really don't know why don't you guys also run a 2nd win-con, Tendrils/Grapeshot/Concordant crossroads, because this deck gets fizzled so many times while comboing and with only 1 win-con that has to pop up by itself and needs 15 spare mana you are risking your wining chances too much.
k2thej list also seems to rely heavily on an uncountered Glimpse for game one.
Ya good point that the card is a sorcery, I didn't notice that.Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilObstat
An uncountered glimpse certainly is a plus but my list's aggro capabilities are also really good. I feel like some people testing my list might not be paying it right...I can combo turn 2 1/3 of the time, turn 3 1/3 of the of the time, and almost always swing lethal on turn 4 if the first two don't happen. This deck hardly ever fizzles. Ever. You just have to play it right.
I'm not trying to defend my build because it's my build, but I've tested almost every conceivable card for this deck and this list is by far the fastest and most consistent (and resilient).
The aggro plan IS the second win condition, and it is extremely effective considering it's a backup plan. I'd actually venture to say that it is the most effective back up plan any legacy deck has ever had. Ya, I said it.
Also, as for counters, even if you lose to a blue control or top game one, board out the glimpses for leylines, and the three wishes for ezuri, shaman, and cradle and it is reeeeeally freggin hard to lose. you literally have an uncounterable deck (aside from summoner's pact). Control is not a concern after game 1.
The advantage is you can only play 4 Glimpse of Nature. This is Glimpse 5, 6, and 7.Quote:
Originally Posted by k2thej
Genesis wave is not glimpse. You do not keep drawing after the creatures come out. If you see a glimpse, you lose it since it's not a creature. It's the same reason that sylvan messenger is bad in this deck. It's essentially the same mechanic just bigger. Sylvan messenger is more cost efficient than wave and it's still not good.
So that post makes one thing obvious: You haven't played with Wave. Wave usually wins you the game if it resolves. When you're waving for 6+ on turn 3, you usually win. If you do so with a Pact in hand, then you can untap with any Symbiote or Ranger you get into play, and Pact for Regal Force to draw a huge chunk of cards so that you can Glimpse out or Wave out. If you have Eternal Witness in your deck and Wave into Witness, then you can rebuy Wave and cast it again. And if none of those things happen, its like you just played a personal draw XXX exept those cards all went into play, and you still have whatever you had in hand before the Wave. Saying its comparable to Sylvan Messenger is just silly. At least test the card before you dismiss it that easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by k2thej
If you're willing to just play 4 Glimpse and hope for the best, have fun, but those versions haven't done squat in large, real-life Legacy events, whereas builds with a back-up plan (see this past weekends SCG Open for a different back-up plan to Glimpse) are at least able to compete.
The only reason my build hasn't done anything yet is because I don't have a lot of time to play in tournaments. I have played it in one major tournament, and was ONE GAME away from top 8-ing at the ginormous SCG open. One. Flippin. Game. Worst part? I lost that game by a turn after surviving being attached by Emrakul.
Anywho enough of my sob story. I will test wave again since you feel strongly about it, but please try my build again. It's the most efficient possible right now, I promise.
Fair enough. I'll give Messenger another shot.
Nooo haha thats not what I mean. Messenger isn't good! Don't do that haha. I mean't that I don't like messenger and therefore don't like wave. Also, I just edited my post.
I guess what I'm saying is that my deck obviously tries to find glimpse, and when played right, it almost always will. Since messenger doesn't help you find it, I don't like it. Since I maximize my one drop count I don't have to worry about creature advantage so messenger isn't advantageous to me.
That's ok, I wasn't really going to try Messenger :)
What do you all think of the builds that hit top 16 at SJ?
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=5497
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...7&iddeck=39799
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...7&iddeck=39798
I'm not really a fan of the vengevine build...it's a different deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by arebennian