Hmm....I'm torn between the 4 Chieftains (and 4 mountains) and 2 WW, 1 Gempalm, 1 SGC (and 4 fetches). Any ideas? Can I have any testimonials concerning Goblin Chieftain?
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Hmm....I'm torn between the 4 Chieftains (and 4 mountains) and 2 WW, 1 Gempalm, 1 SGC (and 4 fetches). Any ideas? Can I have any testimonials concerning Goblin Chieftain?
A decklist would be helpful to help you with your problem, right now I#m not sure if I get you right.
Hello. I use to play MtG back in 2004 and my friends got me interested in this game again two months ago. I just recently discovered this board and would like to thank GoboLord for his concise summary of the current goblin metagame, being an old goblin player myself.
I just have one question though, is it worth splashing black Warren Weirding? Against aggro decks, it does not hit the creatures you want to hit, like Gempalm Incinerator or Stingscourger. It does not provide card advantage, again, like Gempalm Incinerator or Stingscourger. For Gempalm Incinerator, you get to draw a card. For Stingscourger, you get to use Aether Vial him in to send an opponent creature back and block another creature. Against a fellow goblin deck, it is just card disadvantage because they will most likely sacrifice a useless goblin (Goblin Matron, Mogg War Marshal, Lackey in late game, etc). I just do not find a value for Warren Wierding unless the creature has protection or shroud and is the only creature my opponent controls. The only use in Gobolord's summary is that I can multiply my own goblins, which I hardly find useful, especially it being a sorcery and not an instant. Am I using Warren Weirding wrong? It might be my mentality towards that card.
Here is my current list. A critique is appreciated but not needed. I am solely splashing black for Perish and green for Krosan Grip. I do own two Warren Weirdings and would like to grock it eventually since every deck splash black uses it.
Lands (22)
2 Badlands
2 Taiga
3 Arid Mesa
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Mountain
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
Core (26)
Others (12)
1 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Stingscourger
3 Mogg War Marshal
4 Gempalm Incinerator
Sideboard
3 Krosan Grip
3 Perish
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Thorn of Amethyst
Collection worth noting:
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Boartusk Liege
1 Goblin Chieftain
1 Mogg War Marshal
1 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Warren Weirding
3 Virtue's Ruin
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mindbreak Trap
4 Mogg Fanatic - Worthless now due to new rules, from what I have heard.
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
And Mental Misstep looks nasty but I don't find it terrifying like most people. With Mogg Fanatic gone, there are only two one mana cost cards worth using, Aether Vial and Goblin Lackey. Both of which are useless in the late games anyway. It might affect other decks more, such as white weenies with their Swords to Plowshare and Mother of Runes, which does matter even in late games, but not us. Just my opinion though.
Thanks.
First of all: Welcome back, fellow Warchief.Quote:
Originally Posted by L10
I find your list is very good!
My summary on Warren Weriding is actually painted by my personal oppinion on the card: I just don't like it. This does not mean that it's bad at all!
WW is very meta dependend. It's a good choice as a 1-off if you don't know what decks you will face. You could cut a Goblin Tinkerer for 1 Weirding (Tinkerer is not too important when you have K.Grips in SB).
WW is better than Stinger against Tempo Threshold (and against decks with few creatures in general, like Aggro Loam, The Rock and Reanimator).
Oh, okay. That make sense. I have Tinkerer on my main deck in case of Stoneforge Mystic users (SoFi and Jitte makes me sad), artifact decks with Wurmcoil Engine and Myr Battlesphere, and Affinity decks, which are a norm in my meta, and random annoying artifacts like Sensei's Divining Top. I have Stinger in my MD because I can't find space for him in my sideboard, and there are a couple Emrakul decks in my meta.
I think another reason why I do not like WW is because I only have two Badlands, which my friends gave to me as gifts, along with Taiga and the fetch lands. Those lands are too expensive for my blood. So if I want to use WW, I have to purposely fetch for Badlands, which may get destroyed by Wasteland. Perish is absolutely worth splashing for though, especially against Progenitus decks, Zoo decks, and elves. I also like green for Krosan Grip against Moat, Humility, Propaganda, Aluren, and Enchantress.
Anyways, thanks again. I was really disappointed that there were no new goblins in this set. But my one friend didn't get new Merfolks either. :laugh: But he did get Mental Misstep...
im running a basic swamp in my br list and its stil very good
I'm using the list Vandalize posted a bit back, except with two mountains in place of Moxen.
It's a nice list, but better with the Chrome Moxes. A possibility of a T1 Warren Instigator, Null Rod, or Chalice @1 is really nice. I've already played double Lackey/double Vial T1, haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by bakofried
Running 4 Chieftain is really fine, when they go along with Warren Instigator, because pumped up Instigators can pull a good damage or trade for a lot of big guys. A full set of Chieftains also help Rb Goblins (that usually don't have an out to Engineered Plague) a pseudo-solution against this trouble enchantment.
You might already know this, but let's point out for who doesn't: let's assume you're attacking with a Warchief, a Piledriver and a WI:
That's 2 + 5 + 2 = 9 total damage, in theory. But due to Double Strike, you can trigger WI's first strike to cheat Chieftain, so the first trigger hits for 1 damage, Chieftain enters the battlefield, giving his lord ability priority. So now, all your goblins are pumped for the second strike (normal strike). Now, your Warchief is 3/3, your Piledriver is 6/3, and your WI is 2/2. So you'll hit for 1 (first strike) + 3 + 6 + 2 = 12 damage.
Hmm I went to a tourney yesterday to test the manabase named above.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
I lost 5 out of 9 games because my Hovels/Badlands were wasted. In all 5 games I was unable to get up to 3 lands.
In 1 of the remaining 4 games I had to Waste my own Hovel in order to not lose to Price of Progress (which would have dealt 8 dmg otherwise!!!).
Conclusion: I'll never run Hovels again - they were horrible. Plus, my MUs seemed to punish me for that very descision: New Horizons, Junk, Lands and Burn.
Ouch, that's bad...Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
My meta is full of Team America, NLT and New Horizons. So playing fetches means running into Stifle. That's why Hovel works fine for me. And the damage from fetches is also not welcome against Zoo.
Uhm, Stifle against a Fetchland is actually good for us, since they can't use it against Lackey, Matron, Ringleader and SGC then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandalize
Plus, all of those decks run Wastelands too. So, do as you wish but running 8 Dual-Lands (and not being able to dodge Wastelands) in those MUs is very devastating.
I disagree in 1 point: you use fetches to grab basics, as well. So running into stifle means manascrew. And those Tempo decks manabase are all non-basics (they might have 2 basics?) and our Wastelands are effective against them, as well. They won't stifle lackey because they usually have plenty of removal/counterspell for it. But sure, late game Ringleaders are better.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
I'm a huge proponent of Goblin Chieftain and posted a list recently where I cut my 4th Goblin Warchief for a 4th Goblin Chieftain. The consensus was that I was mistaken to do so :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by bakofried
In a deck using 4 Warren Instigator I would increase the number of Chieftains because of the obvious advantages of buffing your doublestriker. Chrome Mox is another reason to up the Chieftain count. Swinging turn 2 with a 2/2 Goblin Lackey is better than swinging with a 1/1 Lackey. There are some nice benefits in using Chieftain if you play 3 Siege-Gang Commander too.
The lists posted recently are light on removal which hurts against creature based strategies but is better against lists we can't interact with anyway. I'm switching my list back to 6-8 removal pieces and considering the black splash now. The role of Chieftain in my list will likely be back to a 1-of in case of the mirror (which is extremely likely in my meta) and against Engineered Plague. In summary, Goblin Chieftain works in the right build. What are your other 8 flex spots?
On fetchlands vs Auntie's Hovel: Wow GoboLord that sucks! I actually expected you to come back and report favorably on using the Hovels... I hate losing 1 life per mountain but know how much of a benefit basics are in this format... We have a number of people who have a lot of success using non-basics. I'll probably end up testing both.
Actually it's only Skeggi + Vandalize advocating Hovels. But you are right: go ahead and test them yourself. As I figured out yesterday it's not a good idea to only rely on other people's testing-results and oppinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew
Running Auntie's hovels or more fetches is primarily meta dependant.
I have been using hovels a lot in general and was very happy about saving my life total. However since i feel that with the printing of mental misstep, stifle will see a decrease in play (both because it's replaced by MM and MM counters it) I moved to 5 basics 7 fetchlands manabase. Also my latest lists run mental misstep, so I have some protection against it.
Double post
I was just about to tell you, but I was too hungover this weekend - I've been playing quite some games on Magic Online last weekend and lost several games because of this. Looks like all of a sudden it is a problem! Crap hovels, I'm kicking them out! :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
I'm just not sure if I should run 3 or 4 Badlands and 7 or 8 fetches to run along them.
Well, not me anymore, those things stink. I guess I always used to play in a Hovel-friendly meta. But now, they've proven to be terribad.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
this is the wrong logic. MM doesn't replace stifle, it makes stifles better. The decks packing stifle want to stop you from devloping. blue decks use ponder, brainstorm, sometimes vial, always fetches and usually have very little way of developing a hand without a kantrip or two. stopping brainstorms and fetches is fine. Decls are cutting daze right now; because daze is just getting worse and worse as the metagame plays more nobles, bials, tombs and other daze answers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lejay
On Warren Weirding, it may be meta-dependent. When the card was released, the meta looked like thresh thresh thresh, and being able to kill Tarmogoyf was tech. Warren Weirding was like the second coming of Christ for Goblin decks. However, if your meta doesn't have much Tarmogoyf or Tombstalker, you probably don't need it. You can move it to the sideboard if you want and just run a couple Badlands + Fetch. Personally, I prefer not to run fetchlands because I always seem to get blown out by Stifle. Not sure if the logic actually holds up, since Stifle is perhaps even more devastating when they point it at the other cards in the Goblins deck, but I can't even cast those if I'm losing land.
I don't know what thresh players people are playing against, but when it came to the point that they can stifle SGC or Ringleader they very likely lost already. As a stifle deck I wouldn't want goblins to have permanent mana sources if I can somehow stop it. The "fetches aren't stifled" or "it's good when our fetches are stifled" only holds true when you resolved a Aether Vial in which case it probably doesn't matter what your opponent does, unless it's Pyroclasmisng(?) every turn.