I'm thinking of removing Snapcaster for Jitte. Good idea or bad idea? Because turn 3 with a hasted Goblin Guide + Jitte is dangerous and can win games.
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I'm thinking of removing Snapcaster for Jitte. Good idea or bad idea? Because turn 3 with a hasted Goblin Guide + Jitte is dangerous and can win games.
Bad idea, you just have a couple of creatures to equip it then. Also it doesn't fit into this decks game plan: making damage. Casting Jitte and equipping it costs 4 mana, almost the same as playing Snapcaster and flashbacking Price of Progress, which is another 4-6 damage.
The only reason I'd see Jitte being played would be to fight opponents Jitte, but we can't tutor it and there are better cards for that like smah to smitherens.
I went to the GP Ghent.
Day 1 : 7-2
Won
Maverick
Junk
Rug delver
Painter
Burn
Spiral tide
Merfolk
Lost
Maverick (illegal play from him, casting swords for 1 mana with a talia on the table, hadnt noticed untill it was too late)
Ant (ETW 2 times)
Day 2 : 3-3 drop
Won
Rug delver
Maverick
Esper blade
Lost
Combo elfs
UW miracle counterbalance
Maverick (mulligan x 3)
My list is somewhat special, it can be found here : (they call it "firefly")
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...gpgnt12/day2#8
yesterady i saw gp live coverage,
and i d like if u arrived on top, because i palyed almost same list,
i think the way for ur delver is without counetr or just with daze,
because must be very fast and strong, and no time for many counter and only few burn
i think the way is use big bolt, like thunderous and fireblast,
i see not played in day one against big monster deck, if play against them, u try to be so fast?
Firefly is an excellent name for ur delver deck. We should adopt it.
To Junk, Cephalid Breakfast or Nic-Fit, Firefly is a masterpiece in naming industry.
I won small legacy tournament yesterday. It is so boring deck to play and I keep winning :really: so it's conflicting (fun vs prizes).
Went 6/2 on day one and sat down for the last round. I had Delver, Guide, Pierce, Snapcaster,Brainstorm, Land, Land, he just mulliganed to 6 when the judges yelled "Re-Pairings". I got paired against Elves then and lost. :cry:
i still play without any counter.
i think the way of deck is go very fast
of corse is dangerous against some decks.but i see sometimes is too slow with little control
Been playing the list that placed 9th in Vegas last weekend. Some thoughts:
1) Fire//Ice is VERY good. It's MUCH better than Forked Bolt, assuming your opponent doesn't open on turn 1 Mom if you're on the draw. I haven't played the matchup extensively, but I would imagine that you should be able to answer a turn 1 Mom some other way. If you're playing Forked Bolt, you probably should be playing Fire//Ice.
2) This deck still can't ever beat Countertop ever. I particularly don't like Sulfuric Vortex against Countertop; they can present a clock in places where we can't and they can race Vortex. Perhaps I'm just doing it wrong...how do you guys beat Countertop?
3) 2 Grim Lavamancers is probably the correct number, as is 3 Force and 2 Daze.
You heavily underestimate Vortex. It's CMC3 and therefor much less likely to get countered by Counterbalance than anything else. It's good versus Stoneblade (and other decks, were lifelink is relevant) too. If they cannot handle it in time, they are going to lose. If you aren't able to counter CB, you should at least be able to get in some damage, which sets you ahead if you drop Vortex.
I wouldn't cut Lavamancer to 2 (from currently 3), because he is a big threat for many decks and can be used to constantly clear the board or damage the opponent. At the GP it was the best card and I was always happy to draw one.
3 Lavamancer is too slow in my experience.
2 are find MD, but it is stronger as a SB card.
Not enough, if they go T1 Top T2 Counterbalance (and that happens a lot more than you'd think; against CB decks they usually have the lock online with Force backup around turn 3).Quote:
Originally Posted by H3llsp4wn
Against Stoneblade it's good, that's true, but against CB it just serves as a win condition for them, I've found.
Right, you're always happy to draw /one/. Two is often bad but serviceable, and 3 is death. Drawing one with an empty GY is pretty bad, and this deck doesn't cycle enough cards to fuel 2 Lavamancers at the same time, so drawing 2 in a game can be quite bad. When it's good it's amazing, but when it's bad it's like a Chain Lightning with Suspend where you don't get to choose all the targets. Sure, a Chain Lightning is a Chain Lightning, but it's not fantastic.Quote:
I wouldn't cut Lavamancer to 2 (from currently 3), because he is a big threat for many decks and can be used to constantly clear the board or damage the opponent. At the GP it was the best card and I was always happy to draw one.
T1 Top, T2 Counterbalance isn't the rule and if you cannot damage the opponent before him dropping CB (or not countering CB) you are either keeping mediocre hands or just playing the deck wrong. Sure, sometimes it happens, but this shouldn't be as common as you picture it.
Grim is a beast. I want to draw AT LEAST one, because there's a lot of removal in the format. Especially in the mirror, this is extremely relevant.
If your experience says otherwise that's okay. No hard feelings. ;)
The lock goes up by turn 2 at least once per match, and turn 3 in pretty much every single game. I've played no fewer than 20 games against CounterTop, and I've gotten locked out on or before turn 3 in probably 18 of them (I've won the other 2). Numbers don't lie, unfortunately, and dealing more than 10 damage before turn 3 is nontrivial.Quote:
Originally Posted by H3llsp4wn
Why 10 damage? Consider the following:
We play 11 fetchlands and 7 real lands. Thus we'll probably be cracking 2-3 fetches per game. Thus we start at 17. CB decks don't just run out CB and then let you deck yourself; they'll have some sort of a clock, whether it's Bob or Jace or Stoneforge. Assume your opponent starts at 11 (9 damage) and you start at 18 (2 cracked fetchlands).
In the case of Bob, on turn 0 it's 18/11. Turn 1: 14/9. Turn 2: 10/7. Turn 3: 6/5. Turn 4: 2/3. Turn 5: -2/1. You lose.
In the case of SFM, on turn 0 it's 18/11. Turn 1: 16/9 (with a Batterskull drop). Turn 2: 9/7. Turn 3: 2/5. Turn 4: -5/3. You actually need to deal 12 damage in this case before CB, not 10.
You actually do win the race if your opponent tries to Jace you out. This is the only case in which you do actually win the race. It's unlikely he has no other win condition for all those turns, though, especially if he starts Brainstorming.
As you can see, the math is not as trivial as you make it out to be. Perhaps you're playing against bad CB players.
It's incorrect to consider how good Grim is against the format as a whole. Sometimes he'll be godawful just based on what he does (against Storm Combo, for example) and thus you'll board him out. Consider the removal quantities of the decks where you actually want a Grim Lavamancer:Quote:
Grim is a beast. I want to draw AT LEAST one, because there's a lot of removal in the format. Especially in the mirror, this is extremely relevant.
Maverick has 4 pieces of removal. You have 8 creatures with evasion or pseudo-evasion. I think that's all I need to say there.
Reanimator has 0 pieces of removal.
Merfolk has 0 pieces of removal.
The mirror has a lot of removal, but so do we. The game will often be decided by who points their removal at the opponent's dome more efficiently, since the creatures will trade with each other a lot.
Goblins have 2-4 pieces of removal (Siege-Gang doesn't count since they should never be able to cast it against us). See Maverick.
Elves have 0 pieces of removal.
Those are the only "big" (i.e. non-rogue) decks that I would actually actively want Lavamancer against (as opposed to him being just a random duder which would likely get boarded out anyway). They all have very little removal or have mitigating factors that make their removal count less important.
You and I think very very similarly about this deck. I check this thread and read something I disagree with and every time I scroll down more you've already replied with the logic I was going to use. Good stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by H3llsp4wn
"As you can see, the math is not as trivial as you make it out to be. Perhaps you're playing against bad CB players."
Or maybe I am not playing against imaginary CB-lists (Bob? Stoneforge?) but UW Miracle, a real deck in the current metagame. But even with the mentioned cards, dealing the damage is perfectly possible.
Here's my GP list btw:
Creatures (15)
4 Goblin Guide
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Grim Lavamancer
Countersuite (7)
4 Spell Pierce
3 Force of Will
Burnspells (11)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Price of Progress
Cantrips (8)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
Lands (19)
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Volcanic Island
2 Mountain
2 Island
Sideboard (15)
1 Force of Will
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Surgical Extraction
3 Submerge
3 Red Elemental Blasts
2 Smash to Smithereens
I've put a third REB (instead of Gilded Drake) into the SB after seeing a shitload of Merfolk on Friday, when my friends were playing trials. I'd probably swap it for a Fire // Ice or Rough // Tumble.
hi how was your deck at gp?
i don t know how organize my deck. because i still want play fireblast and thunderous wrath
i tried to use only 6 cantrip.
i see very hard against reanimator and sneak.show.
i start use esnaring bridge.and is so nice.especially when oppo play show and tell
Please use a spellchecker and capitalise your posts properly. We understand if your English is not that great, but you still need to type better than like in a SMS. ~Nihil Credo
Just for reference, an "imaginary" decklist that just so happened to T8 at SCG St. Louis:Quote:
Originally Posted by H3llsp4wn
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=47812
Anyway, played against UW Miracles at Detroit. Game 1 he got the lock on turn 3. Game 2 he got the lock on turn 2. Played against it many times online, and they tend to have removal or countermagic for every threat I can play before they set up the lock, if they don't set it up on turn 2 or 3.
Perhaps I am just playing the deck wrong. I try to mulligan most 7s that don't have Goblin Guide, about 50% of 6s that don't have it (I will sometimes keep a 6 if it has a Delver + a Brainstorm but no Guide), and I keep pretty much any 5 that has lands and spells. I will also never keep a hand with 2 Snapcasters in it (sometimes I will if it has a Goblin Guide as well or if I'm on 5 cards). That's in game 1, of course. Game 2 isn't much different, though. I will mulligan a bit more aggressively for free countermagic against Countertop though (although it tends not to matter; they always have the Force).
Currently I'm playing the list that was played at the Vegas Open (the 9th place list), except I'm not comfortable trying to beat Maverick without Sulfur Elemental so I'm playing those instead of the Pyroblasts.
There is no Bob in there and it only has 2 CBs and 3 Tops. The chance of them having the lock at turn 3 is about 15%. Doesn't seem relevant to me.
There is a Stoneforge, though, which you said only "imaginary" CB decks play. So, do "imaginary" decks make T8 at SCG Opens? Am I making things up?Quote:
Originally Posted by H3llsp4wn
I would also have you note that mulligans are a thing. The chances are actually a lot higher; a deck like this will often mulligan for a hand with copious removal (to slow our clock) or a Top (meaning they only have to hit a CB and they have a Top to help them do it). Based on "proper" play, I'd say they're pretty likely to "have it" before we're able to deal sufficient damage to not lose to our own Vortex.
Perhaps I should not use "our", as I'm referring to myself. You're apparently a master so you can probably handle it. In my previous post I outlined how I make my mulligan decisions, which should indicate roughly how I play out my game. If you're a master who never loses to Counterbalance and I'm a scrub who has never beaten it even once (almost true; I've only won a match against a CB deck once, and I won just barely), perhaps you can give me some advice on what I'm doing wrong against the deck?
Failing that, I'd ask for an apology for making such inflammatory comments, such as saying that I'm "imagining" that Stoneforge CB decks exist. You may question my judgment if you think I'm playing wrong, but implying that I'm making up my data is insulting to me.
If theres 2 counterbalances there wont be consistent counterbalance lock. Im not saying the matchup is easy but post board you get red elemental blasts to compliment your dazes and spell pierces. Its going to be tough to resolve a counterbalance when you are under pressure and cant play around taxing effects.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ertai87
There is no builds with Confidant doing well, so H3llsp4wns comment on that was spot on.