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a singleton damnation is cute..but if you're looking for a sweep effect, i think you're better off maindecking infest..it can almost always clear the table of weenies..your innocent bloods can clean up what's left..
please don't get me wrong, i don't mean to undermine damnation..in the right meta, it can be a blowout..i've even tried maindecking it before..but its exorbitant cost had been an issue on many occasions..
here is my SB:Quote:
Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag
3 Extirpate
2 Pithing needle
3 Engineering plague
2 Ratchet bomb
3 Thorn of amethyst
2 Damnation
A] I used Perish before packaging Damnation. But the "green" constraint was too narrow and I needed a wider answer to "non only green" aggro decks.
1 more mana is 1 more mana. It hurts sometimes, but time will tell if I am right or wrong on this point. Furthermore, black is everywhere now and a lot of aggro deck are packing badass madness creatures to fight against discard + liliana and I hate dying to Liege or Loxodon...
B] Thorn of amethyst (could be sphere of resistance if you prefer) is IMHO better than trinisphere in those MU that we need to slow down. Why?
It comes a bit sooner if not DR or could be daze-proof if DR was used. In the long run, TOA stacks where multiple trinisphere are waiting in your hand to be discarded. Furthermore, I found that in some MU, TOA is better than trinisphere (Omnitell, storm).
This slot could also be used by Chalice of the Void. I need more test on this.
Note: I'm using 1 nethervoid + 1 trinisphere main deck already. So that I am bringing just more hate against combo !
C] Engineering is an ALL STAR against tribal no more to say ! Nevertheless I recently found it a bit clunky against token.dec because there are more and more different tokens :-(
D] Ratchet bomb is mainly here to deal with artefact & enchant.dec. With the recent bloom/revival of MUD, I'll might be packing one more...
E] Extirpate. Well, it serves as anti-combo/grave hate/Land denial. Less powerfull than leyline of the void I guess in the grave combat, but there is still so much gravehate in my meta right now that I feel confidant to keep them out my board for a little longer til the meta evolved again to some "retarded" grave.dec
Hope these "small" insights could help some of Pox players.
Decklist
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra
12 Swamp
4 Urborg
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Hymn to tourach
4 Smallpox
4 Sinkhole
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Innocent Blood
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Dark ritual
1 Nether void
1 Trinisphere
1 Crucible of worlds
2 Cursed scroll
2 Nether spirit
I don't like Infest because I already have a Tabernacle MB and 2 Engineered in the sideboard to take out the weenie hordes. It's when they get 2-4 big-ish creatures (like Mongoose/'goyfs) before I can stabilize their creatures that it gets tricky, because you're already on a pretty tight clock.
Good point about Sphere of Resistance vs Trinisphere (Why use Thorn? We don't play creatures, might as well tax those too).
Specifically, how have your matches with Storm and Omnitell gone with each of those options.
Also, for green splash is Drop of Honey just worse than The Abyss to use for that type of slot?
I ran Infest for a long time, and eventually switched it out for Black Sun's Zenith. It sounds silly, but it's really terrific in the deck. For the same cost as Infest, it handles token hordes. For the cost of Damnation, it handles most of the format. We have plenty of sac-effects to pick up stragglers, and anyway, Zenith permanently shrinks the creatures it doesn't kill. Its recursive effect is nice, since you start to see it more and more often as the game draws on. Additionally, it serves as a shuffle effect for Sylvan Library or Sensei's Divining Top. You can also cast in on 0 to save it from a Liliana activation. Often the situational nature of sweepers makes them bad topdecks with Liliana down against few or no creatures (often Aether Vial decks will hold up creatures until they can pump a bunch out at once to overwhelm Factories/Liliana). (It also has some funky corner-case applications, like preventing death by Jace ultimate, and stifling Persist triggers.) I eventually cut it because it doesn't play well with Nether Void, which I feel is more important. I now use hellbent Ensnaring Bridges as my main strategy vs. creature-heavy decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag
I can say from experience that Drop of Honey is fantastic. The Abyss is far too slow for that effect. It comes down typically turn 4 (if you make all your land drops and haven't had to discard it), when your opponent usually has at least 3 creatures down (in a mid-range shell. In a tribal deck, probably more, so Abyss is awful there.). From there, they can drop a couple more creatures to pad out their board while they swing for the last few points of damage. Drop of Honey comes down as soon as they play their second creature (or their first if it's Deathrite Shaman) and puts the brakes on their development. Either they have to wait it out (and let you 2-for-1 them while you attack their hand and build board presence) or they have to race the Drop, in which case they'll never get ahead owing to additional sac-effects you can play as necessary. While we're not a tempo-deck per se, we can benefit greatly from essentially time-walking our opponent board-wise, since our high curve is our downfall in the midrange matchup. Drop of Honey also answers Iona, Shield of Emeria!Quote:
Originally Posted by beez
Maybe for the board:
2x Drop of Honey
2x Engineered Plague
Rather than Perish possibly. Interesting ideas about BSZ as well.
Tnx, for the mini primer on black suns Zenith!
@ Dolphy . With the green splash, what do you side out against combos like Storm and Reanimator? Does Abrupt Decay get sided out in these matchups?
Drop of honey or the green porphyry nodes !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by D0LPHY
1) Nice effect. Can stall the game a bit but the main problem will always be "when to play it to get its maximum effect". With all the sac effect we have, I think The Abyss is still better in this slot = AD proof / permanent effect.
2) BSZ will be tested soon instead of Damnation. Good idea. My only pb with it is that it does not handle Goyf / KOTR / anything big. Otherwise it is as bad as damnation can be against Gaddock...(which was certainly why a lot of POX players packed Perish when Maverick was everywhere)
@ Beez:
I do only own Thorn of amethyst not sphere of resistance. So that's why ! But hell, go for sphere of course. (It does not really matter, as you will likely only pack TOA against combo.deck).
So far not bad but I still have to test "chalice of the void" just to see which one is better.
Copied/pasted from what I wrote on Mtgsalvation.
I played a BOM trial last saturday (60 players) in Paris with the list I posted a couple pages back, with a small change:
- 2 rishadan port
+1 The tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
+1 Smallpox
-1 Ensnaring bridge
+1 Swamp
6 swiss round + a top 8.
I ended up 16th. With a final score of 4 - 2.
Quick sum up!
Round 1 Omni Clash Loss 1-2
Game 1
I lose the toss. We both mull to 6. The island does it thing and by turn 3 we have an omniscience on the battlefield and a nether void on my side... After some cantrips (3-cmc..but hell he can pay) he finds a bouncing effect and I'm dead.
+3 extirpate +3 thorn of amethyst -4 IB -2 Hymn
Game 2
He does not mull into 6 neither do I. At this point, I think he is lucky and has his leyline in his opening-7, but no. Discard S&T + extirpate and he scooped under heavy beating of a nether spirit
Game 3
Again no leyline. I manage to resolve 3 thorn of amethyst but I do not see any mana denial in 12 turn so finally he reached 6 mana for S&T into Emrakul.
I scooped without drawing...Smallpox was on top of it (and he was full tap).
Yeah I'm a f...ing monkey !
Round 2 Stoneblade (don't remember which variant it was...) Win 2-0
Game 1
Opponent mull into 5.
DR into Trinis, I kept pressure on mana denial, really nothing he could do. (board empty, hand empty...hello pox)
-4 DR + 2 ratchet bomb + 2 extirpate
Game 2
Opponent mull into 6. After a hymn followed by a small pox and a liliana, nether void ETB and seals the game.
Well I did not not play magic here. Luck was definetely not on my opponent side.
Round 3 Aggro token GW loss 0-2
A home brew deck full of little beasts with battle cry and token cards.
I was crushed hard by Bladehold each game.
This time, luck was on my opponent side. I went very hard on mana denial each game (destroyed not less than 6 lands) but my opponent was always drawing into another. Interesting. I made a big mistake on game 2. I guess I could have took a draw here rather than a loss...
- 4 DR + 3 Engineering plague + 1 perish
So well I'm out of top 8, not because the deck is not a real contender just because of me. Anyway, I was coming to play it so I moved on and cheered myself a bit.
Round 4 Shardless BUG Win 2-0
Game 1
I keep a strong hand with 2 DR 2 Hymn 1 TS 1 Swamp 1 liliana. Opponent mull to 6. By turn 2, his hand is empty. Liliana sealed the game.
- 4 DR + 2 ratchet + 2 perish
Game 2
Opponent mull to 6 again. He is on the play with a turn 1 Ancestral followed by another on turn 2. At this moment I felt like I was going to lose to his CA.
Mid game a resolved perish took care of a goyf (6/7) and a shardless agent.
Nether void finally showed up but my opponent managed to come back from a next turn killing blow by playing a pithing on my mishra. Cursed scroll met also another pithing. Liliana was surgically extracted... But the field was wide open for my crucible, which was only waiting a waste. Once drawn, opponent scooped !!!
Round 5 Punishing Jund Win 2-0
Game 1
My opponent lost the liliana's battle because of my cursed scroll.
Nothing came in.
Game 2
DR into Crucible, followed by wasteland. My opponent scooped on turn 3...
Well here DR + crucible + wasteland stole a game for me.
Round 6 Elves Win 2 - 0
Game 1
We went back and forth till he only had an Ooze 9/9 left and a forest on the board. I was dying here forced to chump block with mishra which were exiled each time by the ooze despite having crucible in play. the turn before he has lethal I draw into smallpox, followed by Nether Void and he scooped.
My SB is like a killer against him but he doesnot know
- 4 Hymn - 3 Sinkhole + 3 Engineering plague + 2 perish + 2 ratched
Game 2
Turn 1 DRS met IB
Turn 2 Dryad + again DRS met DR + perish
Turn 3 LLanowar met engineering plague naming elves
Turn 4 Opponent played nothing -> Nether Void and opponent scooped
This is what I'm currently on:Quote:
Originally Posted by beez
ANT/TES
-1 Cursed Scroll
-2 Sinkhole
-2 Crucible of Worlds
+2 Surgical Extraction
+3 Extirpate
Reanimator
-1 Crucible of Worlds
-2 Sinkhole
-4 Hymn to Tourach
-4 Abrupt Decay
+2 Surgical Extraction
+2 Drop of Honey
+3 Extirpate
+4 Ensnaring Bridge
Abrupt Decays are weak against Storm, but holding one up against a multiple-LED play will mess up your opponent's math, and often win you the game. Against Reanimator, they are dead. You need Cursed Scroll to win through Ensnaring Bridge. Sinkholes are weak in both matchups because neither deck needs much mana to go off, especially since many Reanimator pilots these days are packing Dark Ritual/Lotus Petal. Given the prevalence of main-deck Show and Tell these days, I find Reanimator to be one of the most sophisticated matches for us (it's rather even, too).
The Abyss is probably fine. I don't like it because I find my opponent having multiple creatures in the early game is how I die. If I can survive long enough to get The Abyss out (and get my opponent to 0 creatures), I probably don't need it. The real reason I've never considered it is it doesn't play nice with Nether Void.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf
I see by siding out the Crucibles you don't think that Wastelock is worth the effort on a short clock even though those decks run mostly non-basic Sol Lands. I suppose the chances are better to catch an LED with Decay, even though it costs two to get rid of a zero.Quote:
Originally Posted by D0LPHY
Against Jund what do you side out to add in the Extirpates that are good against them to get lands, combat thier own Loam and Punishing Fire? I like all our cards in this match but feel the need to get the Drops and Extirpates in.
Just ordered three Black Sun's Zenith from magiccardmarket.eu.
Maybe I will run three in main, and one in sideboard. I figure they could replace Perish.
I wonder; hex proof is no defence against BSZ, right? Should be good vs Mongoose and Mirran Crusader.
I've never seen a storm list with 'sol' lands. They typically have no use for colorless mana. I've seen an Ancient Tomb or two in a Reanimator list, but either way, we need to be proactive; the Waste-lock doesn't accomplish anything in the short term in terms of preventing them from going off. Notice I do leave 1 in against Reanimator.Quote:
Originally Posted by beez
I've always found Jund to be a bad matchup (easily the worst of the midrange decks). I put in a lot of time trying to figure this one out, and I've come up with something a little unusual:Quote:
Originally Posted by beez
-2 Thoughtseize
-4 Liliana of the Veil
-4 Hymn to Tourach
+2 Drop of Honey
+4 Ensnaring Bridge
+4 Pithing Needle
I find my Lilianas to be pretty bad against Jund, owing to their having Lightning Bolt/Punishing Fire, Bloodbraid Elf (haste), Abrupt Decay/Maelstrom Pulse, etc. Meanwhile, Jund's Lilianas are quite tough for us: unless we have the Decay, our Factories can rarely get through. Also, Deathrite Shaman is a pain. Thus, Pithing Needle. Ensnaring Bridge is wonderful, but I like the Drops as well. I pull out most of my discard to make room for all my creature hate. (I'm still on the fence about leaving in 2 Thoughtseize or 2 Hymn.) Once I've boarded out my Lilianas, I really don't care about Punishing Fire. Life From the Loam is a very real problem if they run it, but as it happens, I've never encountered it. If I see it, I pull out 2 Drop of Honey and an Ensnaring Bridge for 3 Extirpate.
Do you also use the Needle vs Stoneblade or Deathblade?
Yes, but more for Jace than anything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by beez
What do you guys think about Braids, Cabal Minion?
One of her biggest downsides is she is a creature that cannot be recurred by itself, like Nether Spirit or Bloodghast. This makes Smallpox and Innocent Blood potentially worse, but since she is 2BB I think she usually be last card in your hand you would play anyway. Another thing that could be awkward is having Braids out too long without Crucible of Worlds or Dakmor Salvage (if you are playing it)... I don't think that would be especially bad anyway, since you should be ahead in resources from our mana denial and board control.
On to why I think she is good! She's basically a Smokestack that is always set to 1 and that can't kill our Nether Voids or Lilianas. Once their board is clear she is a 2/2 body that can swing in with Factories. She is also pretty ridiculous with Crucible of Worlds, I think a lot of decks would scoop to that.
Sorry if I'm dredging up an old topic but I've read back a little bit into the thread and hadn't seen her being discussed.
I have actually ordered a play set because I like her too, and the cards are really cheap. If not fighting combo then I figure she is playable, otherwise she is too slowl.
http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...meaksjdflk.jpg
This could be an interesting card for the deck. Nice with Hymn, Liliana, Thoughtseize, IoK etc. I really like this card.
Most Decks that splash black can run this, and probably better than pox.
Shardless agent perhaps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teluin
I like it! When will it be released, that's what like to know. I'm going to try it, seems promising