I've never considered Loam. Your logic has merit, maybe I'll give it a try this weekend at Atlanta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
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I've never considered Loam. Your logic has merit, maybe I'll give it a try this weekend at Atlanta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
You can easily make the Pierce into a Crop Rotation, and that was what it used to be. However, the additional Ponders, at least to me, make up for the lack of threat density though, but you do of course sacrifice speed and lose the surprise Inkmoth kills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
I have once thought about this in the sideboard, but I think the main reason it's favoured in RUG is that they can use it both as a offensive card (recurring Wastelands) and also defensively (protecting from manascrew in Delver mirrors). We don't really have that ability to use Loam as a mana denial tool with our singleton Wasteland, but as a defensive measure (albeit very slow) with Dryad Arbor and Inkmoth chumping (or just recurring dead Inkmoths in general) could certainly make for some interesting interactions. I'd give it a try, but it seems a bit slow for my liking and I'm not too certain what matchups we'd want it for. Against RUG, Death & Taxes, Lands and other heavy mana denial decks perhaps?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
I was thinking of subbing a Ponder, actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns
Is there a reason no one is playing Null Rod on the board? I think a 1-1 split of Null Rod and Pithing Needle covers more bases.
Null Rod Pro's:
1. Versatility- can be effective vs. Miracles, Storm, MUD, and D&T.
2. 2 Mana- Easier to play into already established Counterbalance+Top.
Null Rod Con's:
1. Does nothing against deathrite shaman, jace, sneak attak, etc.
2. 2 Mana- harder to play while advancing our gameplan.
I'm curious as to your input.
On the subject of Null RodQuote:
Originally Posted by SFL-Brainstorm
Pros:
1. Rod is better against Storm and MUD without question. On the topic of Miracles, I like that Needle can hit random stuff like Karakas and Staticaster in addition to Divining Top. Against D&T its an interesting split, the versatility of Rod stretches across Jitte and Vial while Needle can also hit SFM, MoM, Wasteland, and Port. Granted the Jitte and Vial are two of the heaviest hitters, so it's really personal preference whether you want to target single cards or just two of the strongest ones.
2. Jamming this through a CB lock (or Chalice on one) is definitely a plus. That said, I'm unsure of the exact ratio of 1 cmc spells to 2 cmc spells in miracles.
So tl;dr it's probably a meta call. Null Rod seems better against Storm, MUD, Painter, and maybe Tezz decks, so I'd play it if you have a lot of those in your meta. Needle is better against an open field as it's slightly weaker but has more versatility and overall uses.
Edited: Mixed up rod and needle in the first line
How in tarnation is Needle better against Storm? It can hit, what, fetchlands? While Rod shuts down LED and Petal.
You're 100% correct. Was a typo, fixed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
Here is my current list. I'm open to all sorts of suggestions, specifically focusing on a more open SCG metagame. Trying to tune for SCG Philadelphia at the end of February.
UGw Infect
Creatures (12)
4x Blighted Agent
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Glistener Elf
Spells (29)
1x Become Immense
3x Force of Will
4x Invigorate
3x Daze
3x Gitaxian Probe
3x Vines of Vastwood
1x Crop Rotation
2x Berserk
2x Spell Pierce
2x Ponder
1x Flusterstorm
4x Brainstorm
Lands (19)
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Wasteland
1x Savannah
4x Tropical Island
1x Pendelhaven
4x Inkmoth Nexus
Sideboard (15)
1x Force of Will
2x Krosan Grip
2x Rest in Peace
1x Absolute Law
1x Null Rod
1x Pithing Needle
1x Vines of Vastwood
1x Crop Rotation
1x Flusterstorm
2x Swords to Plowshares
1x Karakas
1x Bojuka Bog
From personal experience, I'd say that if you're planning to run the white splash version, you probably don't need the crop rotation, karakas, bojuka bog package. Just add a Grafdigger's Cage or Surgical Extraction, and you will have 2 extra slots for other stuff. I typically go with something like a Blue Elemental Blast and Sylvan Library for an Open metagame. I'd suggest the Blue Blast for sure because you're taking a big risk of getting destroyed by Blood Moon by not having a Basic Forest and the extra counter/removal for BM can help a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by SFL-Brainstorm
how committed to the white sideboard are you?Quote:
Originally Posted by SFL-Brainstorm
You are running a ton of permission in the main.
I won't register an infect list without green sun's zenith main. Card is real good.
I would consider adding Jace, vryn's prodigy, Sylvan Library and dryad arbor. If you add arbor you might consider dropping your tropical count to 3. I've also become a fan viridian corrupter somewhere in the 75.
I'd recommend finding room for a Nature's Claim in the sideboard. Hitting 3 mana through mana denial strategies is a pretty difficult thing to do, and many of the decks that have problematic artifacts and enchantments aren't playing Countermagic.Quote:
Originally Posted by SFL-Brainstorm
I've been running a Seal of Primordium instead of Nature's Claim. Cost's 1-more, but you can also slam it down early and make them find enchantment removal before they can disrupt you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
SFL - I'd recommend cutting one Trop for a basic Forest. Now that we're not trying to cast DTT, I don't think the extra blue source is necessary.
Hey y'all. Quick recap of the Legacy Super IQ I played in Memphis this past weekend. 72 people in attendance. They say Legacy is dead...
Decklist for reference:
4x Glistener Elf
4x Blighted Agent
4x Noble Hierarch
1x Viridian Corrupter
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Crop Rotation
4x Brainstorm
2x Gitaxian Probe
1x Ponder
3x Force of Will
2x Spell Pierce
1x Flusterstorm
1x Stifle
2x Daze
4x Invigorate
3x Vines of Vastwood
2x Berserk
1x Become Immense
4x Tropical Island
1x Forest
4x Inkmoth Nexus
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Wooded Foothills
2x Windswept Heath
1x Wasteland
1x Pendelhaven
SB:
K. Grip
Seal of Primordium
Nature's Claim
Teferi's Response
Blue Elemental Blast
Flusterstorm
Force of Will
Crop Rotation
Bojuka Bog
Karakas
Sylvan Safekeeper
Submerge
Grafdigger's Cage
Pithing Needle
Sylvan Library
R1 - Burn
I lost game 2 because I couldn't find an Infector fast enough, but the other 2 games were pretty much like it always goes. Combo kill as soon as you're ready, they can't beat our clock because they pay 1 mana to deal 3 damage and we pay zero to deal 8...
R2 - TES (1-0)
I win game one because my opponent cracked 3 fetchlands and cast 3 Gitaxian Probes before casting his Ad Nauseum. He hit too many cantrips and died when he revealed Empty. Game 2 I have an all green card hand and he dies to straight beats before he can go off. It's likely he messed up because he could have used a lotus petal in hand to cast a cabal therapy taking my berserk, but he didn't think it was worth it because I didn't have any more pump spells. Guess what was on top :cool:
R3 - Infect (white splash) (2-0)
I love the mirror match. Unlike most mirrors, I feel like Infect is a very complicated dance of deploying threats, and trying to not get any spells countered. It took 3 games, and I had to get a little lucky that my opponent didn't have a pump spell on a critical turn, but it all worked out and I ended up squeaking out a win.
Worth noting, the white splash definitely gives you the advantage in the mirror. That said, my opponent boarded in Necropede and Spellskite so my MD Viridian Corrupter made me look like a genius. Not implying he was wrong to do so, just that I had (arguably) the best counter step to his plan.
R4 - Aggro Loam (3-0)
I won game 1 on a quick combo kill after he had to keep a sketchy mull to 6. Game 2 I botched so bad I'm almost embarrassed to admit it. I had a pair of Inkmoths, a Glistener Elf and a Hierarch. I decide that because I can't pump kill him I'll just animate both Inkmoths and get in for 3. Surprise Zach, he has Golgari charm and you're getting a free ticket to blown out city... Game 3 he opens Thoughtseize into Chalice on 1, into Liliana of the Veil, into Knight of the Reliquary. I get steamrolled by that nonsense.
R5 - Elves (3-1)
A nice easy match to assuage my aching ego. I win the die roll, open on Hierarch. he plays Bayou Nettle Sentinel. I Wasteland him, and play Glistener Elf. He plays a fetchland and passes back. I attack and kill him with Invigorate/Berserk even after he blocks. Game 2 he mulls to 4 and keeps a no lander... Dies 4 turns later.
R6 - Shardless Sultai (4-1)
I check the matchups and I'm pretty sure if I win this I can draw into Top 8. I know he's on Shardless (which in my opinion is a rough matchup) so I am ecstatic when I see a T2 kill with Daze backup. I'm on the draw, but his first turn is just a land and pass. I decide I have to try for it, even if I can't stop an Abrupt Decay. He tries to play a Baleful Strix on his turn 2 which I Daze. The next turn I draw Gitaxian Probe and see that the coast is clear for the kill (and he didn't have the decay anyway). Whew, got lucky. Game 2 I mull to six, see a Hierarch on top and keep it. He opens on a Thoughtseize, taking one of my 2 Glistener Elves. I had only a single Invigorate when he saw my hand. I draw and play Noble Hierarch, Git Probe revealing Strix, Lili and garbage. I draw Stifle and pass. He plays a fetch and Baleful Strix. My turn is a land, Elf, and pass. I drew a Force of Will for Turn. My opponent attacks with Strix and taps out for Toxic Deluge of 1. I Force it, leaving me with only Invigorate in hand. My Force works and I draw Invigorate for my turn. 4 + 4 + 1 + 1 (exalted) = 10. Better lucky than good...
R7 - Aggro Loam (5-1)
ID into top 8. This will make me the 6th seed. My friends and I scurry off to Burger King to get some cheap chicken nuggets while we have a free 45 minutes.
Quarterfinals - ANT
G1: Opponent opens on Duress taking my Force of Will. I play Glistener Elf and pass. He plays a second land, Duresses again and takes my Invigorate. Cabal Therapy follows and takes my Noble Hierarch. My hand is now a fetch land and a Wasteland. I draw Gitaxian Probe, play it and see that I'm dead. I attack for 1 and pass hoping somehow he screws up. Obviously he doesn't... he made top 8 after all.
G2: I mulligan to a 6 card hand of all green spells and land and push another Land to the bottom with my Scry. Turn 1 I play a Glistener Elf and pass. He duresses and takes my Invigorate. I draw a land, play it, Vines my Elf and attack for 5. He draws misses a land drop and passes. I draw, Vines again and he dies. Haha victory!
G3: My opener has a Ponder, Gitaxian Probe, Blighted Agent, Trop, Fetch, Force of Will, and Berserk. My opponent mulligans, scrys to the top, and blind Therapies Force of Will off of an Underground Sea, surprise he hits. I draw Invigorate, Gitaxian Probe and see 3x Cabal Ritual, Lotus Petal, Infernal Tutor. Wow this guys draws are incredible. Git Probe draws me a Spell Pierce (my draws are also incredible sometimes) and I play my Trop and pass. He draws and plays Lotus Petal. He cracks it and casts Cabal Ritual. I allow it. He casts a second Ritual which I spell pierce. Back to my turn. I decide its worth the risk to tap out and hope to fade a draw step from him. I cast Blighted Agent and pass (drew Flusterstorm for the turn). My opponent draws, duresses and takes my Invigorate and passes back. I draw a fetchland, ponder, seeing 3 more lands, shuffle and draw a Glistener Elf. I attack for 1 and pass back (pretending maybe I have more permission). At this point I don't think its worth casting the Elf because I need to hit a pump spell to kill him before I run out of permission so it doesn't really matter. My opponent draws and Ponders. I allow it and he draws and plays a fetchland. My turn yeilds more junk draws so I attack for 1 again, play a land and pass. Opponent cracks his fetchland, draws and casts Cabal Therapy. I allow and he takes Flusterstorm. I know he can't go off now, but next turn he'll get me if I don't find a counterspell or a pump spell. I draw Brainstorm for the turn, cast it finding 2 junkers and another Brainstorm. I put back the junk, crack a fetch and cast another Brainstorm. This one yeilds elf, land and Invigorate. Invigorate and Berserk kills him in the nick of time!
Semifinals - Shardless Sultai
This match is a rematch of Round 6. I don't remember all the details, but suffice to say that game 1 I could have won if my second land was any land other than Inkmoth. I am unable to protect my Glistener Elf to combo kill him the next turn and his stream of removal runs deep. Game 2 was comical how badly he gets me. TS into Decay, Lili, Wasteland and Disfigure eats my lunch and in less than 15 minutes my tournament is over.
We all agreed to split the cash for top 4, so mark this event as +$200 and another successful performance for the little poisonous men. :smile:
Congrats on the top 4! Some questions for you:Quote:
Originally Posted by Svyelunite
The permission configuration is atypical with 2x Daze and the Flusterstorm. What's the thought process behind this, how did you feel about it throughout the tournament, and is it something you see yourself doing in future events?
How do you feel about GSZ? I noticed from your report that you rarely cast it, wondering if that's because you've had no luck drawing it or if you've always had a better play. Related, how did you feel about maindeck Viridian?
In what matchups does Sylvan Safekeeper come in? I've found it tends to get swept away by Deluge or Golgari Charm more often than it sticks around for value.
Was the spread of Naturalize effects ever relevant? Would you go up or down on any numbers in an open meta?
Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
I always run one Flusterstorm maindeck so that's normal for me. I decided to drop a Daze and run an extra Spell Pierce main deck because the room had a slightly higher amount of Burn and Storm than I think most metas would. Also, Delver decks were scarce (crazy no?) and I think they're some of the best matchups for Daze. I ran a permission spread similar to this when I top 8'd SCG Worcester and it felt pretty good then. It was a similar meta with a lot more Storm/OmniTell than usual.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
Side note: I actually very much dislike the card Daze, but I feel its a necessary evil given Legacy's speed and efficiency. Kinda like FoW but even more gut wrenching as a late-game top deck...
Part of the issue is that as a 1 of you don't draw it very often. I think I ended up casting it like 2 times during the event. My reports are sometimes a little consolidated (ie I don't get every detail exact haha). I like GSZ if you are going to run some package of tutor targets for it. I choose to run V. Corrupter as my MD tutor guy and Safekeeper out of the board as another. If you don't run the 1 of tutor guys GSZ is better served as another G.Probe or Ponder or something. Some people use Dryad Arbor, but I don't like him very much. The MD Viridian is one of my best friends. He's about the only way you're getting out of a Chalice, Ensnaring Bridge or Jitte matchup game 1 unless you kill them really quickly. I also like Corrupter in a meta heavier on Shardless because Baleful Strix sucks balls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
Safekeeper is good against most decks with Red removal. I especially like him against Lands and Grixis or Temur Delver. He's solid against Shardless because it's like a Vines you don't get Hymn'd or TS'd, but you're right, Lili, G. Charm and Deluge still get us. My run at GP SeaTac wouldn't have been possible with him so until he fails me, his spot in my SB is secure ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
Not at all. I usually only have 2 K. Grips, but I decided to try something different and it was pretty much irrelevant. I think 2-3 Naturalizes is always a good idea. IMO Nature's Claim is the worst because it gets beat by the cards you want the effect against most (Chalice and Counterbalance), but I don't fault people for following Tom Ross's lead and running it anyway. If you are afraid of getting 3 mana reliably enough, I'd suggest 2x Seals and 1x K. Grip, or just 1 of each. YRMV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
Whenever I ran GSZ Sylvan Safekeeper was always a slot I loved too, but thought was maybe too cute. Glad to hear that's not the case and its actually been incredibly valuable to you!
Does anybody have advice for those facing infect?
This thing is terrifying, and although I currently have a positive record against it, I never seem to be able to identify what I'm doing wrong against it when I lose, or worse, what I'm doing right against it when I win.
Fucking terrifying.
To clarify, are you asking about the mirror?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wordslinger
I think he's talking about how to play against the deck with something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
Would help if we knew what deck you're playing Worldslinger.
The big thing about Infect is that it plays with threat. That's the juice that makes the deck work at all. It's not very good at playing RUG, it's not that amazing as a combo deck because of relying on puny creatures getting through on the attack step, etc. But it has a ton of explosive threat value, which is key. It makes the deck hard to play against. Just keep in mind that they don't impede your resource development nearly as much as RUG does, for example. Develop resources, avert the explosive scenario and you'll probably find it much easier to handle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wordslinger