[Primer] Nic Fit

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bart

Hello Ulysse95, I was the guy that also played Sneak Fit this Eternal Weekend at BOM. I played it three days straight and my results were dissapointing. This is why you really made my day yesterday when my mate Chatto pointed out your post to me here and I read you went 5-0 on the Trial! Congratulations! It’s great to hear Sneak Fit is capable of beating the best of the Legacy decks and your write up was a good read.

Like said, my results were mediocre. This has to do with a lot of things, but mostly because I am unexperienced with the deck, I've only played Stompy decks before: Big Red, Soldier Stompy and Dragon Stompy. This resulted in 3 (!) draws on day 1 at the Trial with no breaks between the rounds, which was very exhausting. This is why I also didn’t make notes of my games (something I try to do most of the time).

[...]

I was out of luck on Sunday I guess, this time not making big mistakes at all but got blown out instead. But I never lost faith in the deck and love to give it another spin. The deck deserves it and I really feel it makes me become a better player. Besides, I haven’t faced half of the decks that are out there yet.

I will definitely try 2 mainboard Collective Brutality. All 3 days I felt I didn’t have enough MD discard especially against infect.

Ulysse, against what decks do you side in Slaughter Games? Are these not too slow against combo? Do you use them against Miracles as well? I left my copies at home last weekend but now I am undecided. Would love to hear your opinion about that.
Also, don’t we need some untargeted creature removal in Sneak Fit, a la To the Slaughter or Diabolic Edict in the side, just in case Dark Depths happens, or against reanimator?

Another question: How do you feel about Woodland Bellower? Isn't Sidisi or even Diabolic Intend just better overall? Didn't test him yet though.

Many thanks in advance!

---

Hi Bart!

Thanks for reading my report! Should have stay on Paris to play more :'(

From what I saw from your ending game against my friend playing miracle on friday, you lost a lot of time making each call. Now you said you're new to the deck it makes more sense. I think by becoming more instinctive you will do less draws. For me, sneak fit is mostly a quick version (a lot more than nyx fit which is more a prison deck). I finished all the rounds before time's up. Yes, against miracle it's quite normal, but most of the other match up would end sooner on a normal day. Which is good to go throught a big day as you pointed out. Hang on!! ;)

Yes, I think too that it's good to have more MD discard in it and was happy with those collective brutality until now.

Slaughter game come in against each and every combo deck (storm, show & tell, elf ball, reanimator, alluren, food chain..) because on a good day you can cast it turn 2/3. Even later is good if you managed to delay him with some discard. Less silver bullet to make some room. If you managed to diffuse their bombs, you quite win. Against miracle too since it's often grindy games and steal them some of their tools is good (often the kills).


Yes, I need to find back my to the slaughter. Luckily, I didn't went against Depth ^^ Often my chance to break them is to Emrakul before dying or gain a lethal turn with collective/DRS/thragtusk ^^'

Woodland bellower is quite an all star. Better than Sidissi because greeny and stay on an empty board. And very helpfull with our little toolbox (witness, tracker, reclamation sage or empath depending the situation). MD 1 bellower and 2 empath seemed to be the better balance to me. And I followed master Arianrhod on this ;)
I didn't played tracker for some time but felt good back here.


I'm not a fan of Garruck, but that's me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Channeler Initiate is probably worth keeping an eye on with an eye towards that archaic Sakura-Tribe Elder slot. Steve is likely still better, but Channeler is a weird enough card that it's going to be hard to effectively evaluate it without trying to use it.

---

DRS is a far better Channeler Initiate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Purple Blood

Rhino doesn't hit planeswalkers though. Not saying that makes this better than Rhino just pointing out some added use for the Croc.

---

This. That's something we'd actually need.

Stryfo: Just wondering if you're still playing Dragon Fit, or if you've moved more towards a BUG Planeswalkers list with an intuition / loam package.

The deck list that features aetherling is amazing, I love that guy and I feel we are the only deck in the format that has the ramp needed to "make the card work". The deck looks really fun to play.
The only problem with traverse is that we lose early game consistency which is essential for the deck: 99% of the time the path to victory involves an early veteran trigger (possibly with CT) and traverse is so much worse than gsz in that regard.
Don't you ever feel in permanent top deck mode without a reliable way to tutor for creatures (even utility ones)? Without that we are a worse blue deck because we don't have access to cantrips. The abundance of DRS in the format somewhat makes delirium even less reliable.
If I ever wanted to play aetherling I'd rather empath for it to be honest: either way, after you tutor for him with traverse or empath, it simply doesn't matter. The miracles player is gonna laugh at your face and counter it.

@gth: I haven't played dragonfit in a while simply because I don't actually have all of the cards in paper, I'm missing the savannah. As such I wanted to work on a deck for which I do have all of the cards in paper, hence the bugfit list. Once I get a savannah or suitable replacement, I'll probably start playing dragonfit again, though after playing my BUG list, I am already thinking of some changes to dragonfit.

@rubblekill I can't speak to the list with aetherling, but my list in particular doesn't have a problem with consistency, and doesn't rely on winning on the back of veteran explorer, though it is a large boost. So many of the cards in the BUG fit lists do a great job of replacing themselves and drawing additional cards or just generally being good on their own, that I don't run into a consistency issue. Plus, with 3 tops and 10 fetches, there is a lot of room for finding the cards you need. Another thing that may be somewhat undervalued regarding traverse: when you have delirium you can also tutor lands, and finding Volrath's Stronghold has been pretty real. Even off delirium, there are plenty of matches where tutoring for a basic is actually good enough. Frequently I find that if I'm making land drops, I'm winning games, and traverse helps with that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Echelon

This. That's something we'd actually need.

---

If a big dumb haste man that can be Green Sunned is what you're looking for, look no further than Giant Solifuge. He also tramples and he can't be Swords. Against miracles it's chump or terminus, and you can get blockers out of his way with your removal and terminus just means he's coming right back with your next green Sun

Terminus -> GSZ works for the Croc too. I don't like the Solifuge's 1 toughness. But I'm a rather stubborn bastard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Echelon

Terminus -> GSZ works for the Croc too. I don't like the Solifuge's 1 toughness. But I'm a rather stubborn bastard.

---

Croc also eats a STP as well though. Miracles literally needs miracle terminus or chump to get rid of spider, and if you have 2 towers they can never get rid of it for good (though I guess technically same with Croc). 1 toughness sucks, but even with a snapcaster out solifuge still can kill a jace that has been brainstorming because trample. Turning Green sun into a vindicate for jace isn't great but it's something.

Cast out seems to be incredible in Nyx fit indeed!!!
Need to find 4 spot to it! Can trip which comes back. Manage Marit Lage, Emrakul (and minus) at instant speed, plus walkers, Alluren or food chain!
And most important: the picture looks nice!

Also in love with Cast Out, let's hope about more ench with cycling cards =)

Anyway, i'm testing a variation: as said, less creature and almost removal-proof deck. Main point is Evolutionary Leap: of course, it's a cc2 and so don't synergize well with Deed, but it's amazing: it's a costant and not-so-hateable sac outlet that can easily chain 2 rector to close the game (Curse+Humility/Living Plane/Dovescape). I'm totally in love with it, and since now the tests on cocka are going very well (like 30-2, to be clear. Obv, it's just cocka ^^ ).

// 61 Mazzo
// 3 Artifact
3 Sensei's Divining Top

// 11 Creature
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Eternal Witness
4 Academy Rector
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Thragtusk

// 14 Enchantment
3 Sterling Grove
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Humility
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Living Plane
2 Evolutionary Leap
1 Dovescape
1 Faith's Fetters

// 2 Instant
2 Abrupt Decay

// 22 Land
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Phyrexian Tower
1 Cavern of Souls

// 1 Planeswalker
1 Nissa, Vital Force

// 8 Sorcery
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Collective Brutality
1 Lingering Souls


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Creature
SB: 1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze

// 8 Enchantment
SB: 1 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Seal of Primordium
SB: 1 City of Solitude
SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 1 Oblivion Ring

// 2 Instant
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

// 3 Sorcery
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 2 Thoughtseize

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stryfo

@gth: I haven't played dragonfit in a while simply because I don't actually have all of the cards in paper, I'm missing the savannah. As such I wanted to work on a deck for which I do have all of the cards in paper, hence the bugfit list. Once I get a savannah or suitable replacement, I'll probably start playing dragonfit again, though after playing my BUG list, I am already thinking of some changes to dragonfit.

@rubblekill I can't speak to the list with aetherling, but my list in particular doesn't have a problem with consistency, and doesn't rely on winning on the back of veteran explorer, though it is a large boost. So many of the cards in the BUG fit lists do a great job of replacing themselves and drawing additional cards or just generally being good on their own, that I don't run into a consistency issue. Plus, with 3 tops and 10 fetches, there is a lot of room for finding the cards you need. Another thing that may be somewhat undervalued regarding traverse: when you have delirium you can also tutor lands, and finding Volrath's Stronghold has been pretty real. Even off delirium, there are plenty of matches where tutoring for a basic is actually good enough. Frequently I find that if I'm making land drops, I'm winning games, and traverse helps with that.

---

Awesome; what would you change to dragonfit if you had all the cards you needed? I want to give it a go some time soon at a local weekly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gth842s

Awesome; what would you change to dragonfit if you had all the cards you needed? I want to give it a go some time soon at a local weekly.

---

I'm curious if he is referring to switching from Haven land + dragon or two to just Volrath's Stronghold.

Stronghold works well with all other creatures and makes the same sort of Intuition piles that can grind out a win pretty easily (Loam/Stronghold/fatty). On my BUG list I'm running Grave Titan and Titania as my 5 and 6 drop "fatty" creatures to grab in that way.

Titania can be hilarious with Ghost Quarter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Memories of the Time

Also in love with Cast Out, let's hope about more ench with cycling cards =)

Anyway, i'm testing a variation: as said, less creature and almost removal-proof deck. Main point is Evolutionary Leap: of course, it's a cc2 and so don't synergize well with Deed, but it's amazing: it's a costant and not-so-hateable sac outlet that can easily chain 2 rector to close the game (Curse+Humility/Living Plane/Dovescape). I'm totally in love with it, and since now the tests on cocka are going very well (like 30-2, to be clear. Obv, it's just cocka ^^ ).

// 61 Mazzo
// 3 Artifact
3 Sensei's Divining Top

// 11 Creature
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Eternal Witness
4 Academy Rector
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Thragtusk

// 14 Enchantment
3 Sterling Grove
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Humility
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Living Plane
2 Evolutionary Leap
1 Dovescape
1 Faith's Fetters

// 2 Instant
2 Abrupt Decay

// 22 Land
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Phyrexian Tower
1 Cavern of Souls

// 1 Planeswalker
1 Nissa, Vital Force

// 8 Sorcery
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Collective Brutality
1 Lingering Souls


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Creature
SB: 1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze

// 8 Enchantment
SB: 1 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Seal of Primordium
SB: 1 City of Solitude
SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 1 Oblivion Ring

// 2 Instant
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

// 3 Sorcery
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 2 Thoughtseize

---

Love this.

I think you need the dryad arbor to search for to start the Leap chain in worst case scenarios. 1

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lavafrogg

Love this.

I think you need the dryad arbor to search for to start the Leap chain in worst case scenarios. 1

---

I've thought about it, dryad is also a good option to ramp t1 and it's another good option.
But i don't really know what cut for it

@gth & squaretwo:

my updated dragonfit list can be found here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/nic-fit-dragons-1/

In summary, I wasn't excited by the mainboard raven's crime, so I moved it to the board and cut the third intuition, I also cut down to just a dromoka and an ugin in the main as far as dragons go. I added a second liliana and 2 tireless trackers.

The board is not much different, I just moved around some numbers.

I make no claim that dragonfit is better than the bugfit lists that I play, nor that haven of the spirit dragon is better than volrath's stronghold, in fact, in general I like stronghold better. However, I do believe that the ability to get back Ugin with haven of the spirit dragon is the reason to play dragonfit, so if you want to play Ugin because you think it will end basically every game on the spot, I'd go with the haven plan over the stronghold plan.


If you are going to play the stronghold/intuition package and not raven's crime, I recommend trying cutting the intuitions for gifts ungiven (and fiddling with a few numbers in the deck if you do this), because the effect is more powerful if you aren't worrying about the speed. Getting loam, stronghold, EWit+card is like a slow tutor for any card in the deck, and repeatable EWit is one of the more powerful things to do in nic fit because of the average power level of the cards. Regarding Grave Titan: I don't really care for it too much, it seems weak or ineffective in a lot of matchups, there has to be a better 6-drop (or better yet, a better 4 or 5 drop).

Another avenue I've explored before is instead of stronghold, run academy ruins with thopter sword and a value EE, just food for thought.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Megadeus

Croc also eats a STP as well though. Miracles literally needs miracle terminus or chump to get rid of spider, and if you have 2 towers they can never get rid of it for good (though I guess technically same with Croc). 1 toughness sucks, but even with a snapcaster out solifuge still can kill a jace that has been brainstorming because trample. Turning Green sun into a vindicate for jace isn't great but it's something.

---

Agreed. Thing is, Croc is something I'd possibly run in the MD where Solifuge is more of a SB card. And in my SB I'd much rather have an extra Lost Legacy - it kills Jace before it hits the field and has uses in other MUs as well.

Did we even just consider playing a singleton Entreat and saying fuck it?

I'm going to be trying this:

4 Veteran Explorer
2 DRS
3 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Giant Solifuge
1 Eternal Witness
1 Ulvenwald Tracker (shooting Deathrites, Delvers, Death and Taxes flyers, etc.)

3 Path to Exile
4 Decay (that new Gideon, wtf?)
3 Deed
3 Top
2 Sylvan
2 Painful Truths
1 Entreat the Angels
4 Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy

22 Lands

(Obviously cuts are needed, but I'm just fleshing it out now).

Board:

2 To the Slaughter
3 Carpet of Flowerss (fuckin' Frostbringer, and I have Korean Carpets).
1 Sigarda
1 Garruk Relentless (wombo combo with Tracker)
1 Nisssa, Vital Force
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Pithing Needle
3 Thoughtseize

That's fair. I've played this deck one time in the past two years so I'll wait really say how I feel on certain things. I just feel like Solifuge is actually worth it though, In theory of course. I'm still catching up on some tech. I also feel like Paincestral Recall is a good card though that is worth playing. How does everyones combo match ups feel? Mine is probably weak, but I I also feel like cabal therapy skill can carry me a long way

Everyone is talking about the Croc but what about the two 2-drops? Having a 2 cmc zenith target to get rid of the first explorer could be pretty big and add a lot of consistency to the deck while being decent sized beaters. I'm having trouble deciding which one is better. I guess the 3/4 is better to draw if you have no explorers but the other has 1 more power if the counters go on an explorer which would be kind of the sole point in running them. What do you think? Decent beater that makes our plan more consistent

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sdematt

Did we even just consider playing a singleton Entreat and saying fuck it?

I'm going to be trying this:

4 Veteran Explorer
2 DRS
3 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Giant Solifuge
1 Eternal Witness
1 Ulvenwald Tracker (shooting Deathrites, Delvers, Death and Taxes flyers, etc.)

3 Path to Exile
4 Decay (that new Gideon, wtf?)
3 Deed
3 Top
2 Sylvan
2 Painful Truths
1 Entreat the Angels
4 Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy

22 Lands

---

That's pretty ingenious. I'd go less Truths and +1 Top though. As for new Gideon - PtE doesn't give a shit about indestructible. It's nothing we can't deal with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lueseto

Everyone is talking about the Croc but what about the two 2-drops? Having a 2 cmc zenith target to get rid of the first explorer could be pretty big and add a lot of consistency to the deck while being decent sized beaters. I'm having trouble deciding which one is better. I guess the 3/4 is better to draw if you have no explorers but the other has 1 more power if the counters go on an explorer which would be kind of the sole point in running them. What do you think? Decent beater that makes our plan more consistent

---

I have 2 issues with those. 1 - low CMC beaters & Deed are a very bad combination. It's one of the reasons why we don't play Tarmogoyfs. 2 - by the time you're able to GSZ for a way to get rid of your Explorer you'll have 3 or 4 mana (when playing around Daze). Is killing your Explorer something you still really care about at that point..?