Yes Folinus had 3 SGC but just a lone Tin-Street, the only difference between his MD and mine is I run 2 Tin-Street and 4 Gempalm cutting a Piledriver and SGC but I think something like his is damn near standard/optimal, for Rgb at least.
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Yes Folinus had 3 SGC but just a lone Tin-Street, the only difference between his MD and mine is I run 2 Tin-Street and 4 Gempalm cutting a Piledriver and SGC but I think something like his is damn near standard/optimal, for Rgb at least.
No, I hated it. Really the 3 mana investment isn't worth it; I'd rather have StP in almost every circumstance. I once did the matron trick to kill a Goyf, but if I hadn't had to spend 3 mana on my first 'Swap then the second goyf might have never come down.Quote:
Originally Posted by aTn
Hello I don't know If I'm supposed to post her but here goes. I was wondering if I could get help with my vial goblins, I was looking at most of the posts that I could but there are way to many to read them all.
My list is this
Lands-20
8-Mountains
2-Taigas
2-Badlands
4-Wastelands
3-Wooded Foothills
1-Bloodstained Mire
(I'm not quite sure how many lands I'm supposed to be running. I know I need more fetchlands but I don't know how many).
Game Winners-6
4-Goblin Piledriver
2-Siege-Gang Commander
Damage Dealers-8
4-Mogg Fanatic
4-Gempalm Incinerators
Speeder uppers-12
4-Aether Vials
4-Goblin Lackeys
4-Goblin Warchiefs
Searchers/Drawers-8
4-Goblin Matron
4-Goblin Ringleaders
Utility Goblins-6
2-Goblin Tinkerers
2-Tin Street Hooligans
1-Wort, Boggart Auntie
1-Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Side-Board
3-Krosan Grips
4-Smother
4-Cabal Therapys
4-Tormod's Crypt
I only have about $60 left to finish the deck and I'm planning to go to a big tournement with it and I've only been to tournements bigger than 20 only 2 so I don't really know what I'm going to need to do fairly well. Any help would be appreciated or even just direct me were to go.
The manabase should look like:
Lands-24
4-Mountains
3-Taigas
3-Badlands
2-Rishadan Port
4-Wastelands
4-Wooded Foothills
4-Bloodstained Mire
That's what I would run.
Yeah, pretty much what Mental said, but to elaborate a little:
edit: didn't realize you don't run Port. Your mana base should probably look like this then:
6 Fetch
4 Waste
4 Badlands
2 Taiga
6 Mountain
Cut the two tinkerers for the extra land. Cut the kiki for a third SGC. Consider cutting the second Hooligan for a second Wort.
The sideboard I'm currently running:
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Pyrokenisis
4x Tormod's Crypt
3x Goblin King
The last tournament I went to saw lots of Thresh, Goblins, some Burn and then MUC, BGW Control (I'm not sure if it was TruffleShuffle), 43lands, TES, and Counterslivers.
What do you think of my sideboard?
I don't think Chalice of the Void in sideboard really does much of anything anymore. Although if both Burn and TES are in your meta, you sort of have to do something, so it might be worthwhile.
Underrated in the Port-Less build's sideboard is Life From The Loam, which will defend you against decks that assault your manabase, allow you Wasteland recursion, and generally let you cruise to Ringleaders and Siege-Gangs in matches you need them most.
Thanks I will make the adjustments.
I don't get it. How do I cruise to Ringleaders and SGC when I'm dumping them into my graveyard? What I'm trying to say is a see how it helps, but I also see how it hurts - LFTL recursion seems like a waste of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mental
The Mana Base that I run in my R/b/g build is as follows:
4 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port
2 Taiga
2 Badlands
The Sideboard which I've been going with:
4 Pyrokinesis
3 Krosan Grip
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Smother
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
In the main deck I run 2 Wort, 2 SSG, and 1 Tin Street.
You do have Wort for the recursion. So Loam seems like it shouldn't be a terrible card.
True, I guess Loam isn't bad in Wort heavy Rgb builds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jak.
@nick: What is Sharpshooter good against? I ran 1 MD for a while in mono-red gobbos, and it never helped me much, not even in the mirror, because Fanatic pwned it.
Anything with creatures, basically. It kills mana acceleration, and really messes with combat math. A lot of people argue that it's either situationally awesome, or situationally shitty. I think that's mostly true, except I've never gone "God dammit, this is absolutely the worst card I could've drawn."Quote:
Originally Posted by Mental
There's no possible way I would agree to Life from the Loam in any Goblin build. Do you know what you do when a deck attacks your manabase? Punch it in the face with Lackey and Piledriver. That's why Pikula's Dead Guy Ale had to run E-plague main deck; land destruction isn't good against Goblins. If you want to recur your Siege-Gang Commander, send him into combat. They'll either kill him or lose.
I don't think people would play Loam to protect their mana base. It was more so that they could disrupt the opponents with recurrable wastes. It also helps to ensure land drops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drow Slayer
I completely disagree. As long as you can stop Vial and Lackey, Land destruction crushes Goblins. Goblins' spells are among the most overcosted of any deck in Legacy, and it only gets away with it due to Vial, Lackey, and Warchief. Limit a Goblin deck to two or three lands and no mana accelerants, and you can keep it on the defense until it dies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drow Slayer
Loam gives you a chance to play through things like Smallpox, Devastating Dreams, and even Armageddon and still be in a fair position. Loam is decent in Port-packing builds as well, as it will let you recur a single fetchland to hit your double red for Warchief.
Secondly, as Jak mentioned, that's only one thing Loam does. It also allows Wasteland recursion, which lets you severely punish the daylights out of anything with a bad manabase, or anything relying on manlands (Or annoying things like The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale) to beat you.
QFT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
As a Deadguy player I can attest to the power of land distruction in this matchup. At the EPIC DLD, I won game one against Goblins on the back of Vindicating/Duressing Vials, keeping Lackey off the board and using Sinkhole and Smallpox to keep him off mana.
If a deck can manage Goblin's mana aceleration and pick off a few lands, Goblins is not put in a good position.
But if you played life from loam you would have to cut something essential. Wouldn't the best plan be to cut down non basics to a minimum. Only use fetches to search for duels when it's absolutely needed. If extra mana is really needed throw in a couple of Skirk Prospecters. Also your'e more likely ringleader life from loam to bottom of deck than draw it. Also Vial goblins need as much goblins as possible to work sufficiently. As for wasteland lock wouldn't it be better just to try to win as fast as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Like what? Nobody can agree on anything in Goblins' sideboard beyond Pyrokinesis and Krosan Grip anyway. There seem to be heavily varying opinions on what's essential, per se.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHawk
However, seeing as how I run it in straight RG and not RGB, I can see where there would be less slots to work with.
Cutting nonbasics to a minimum is difficult. RGB can't, really. RG can't realistically run more than 6-7 in a non-port build without going under 4 Taiga/8 Fetch. And secondly, even if you hit a fair portion of nonbasic lands, they aren't immune to being destroyed. Sinkhole, Smallpox, Vindicate, Devastating Dreams, Armageddon, and so forth all hit basics.Quote:
Wouldn't the best plan be to cut down non basics to a minimum. Only use fetches to search for duels when it's absolutely needed. If extra mana is really needed throw in a couple of Skirk Prospecters.
This is almost always mathematically wrong.Quote:
Also your'e more likely ringleader life from loam to bottom of deck than draw it.
You start out drawing 7 cards. After two draw steps, you will have to drop a whopping three Ringleaders to make this statement true. After six draw steps, you'll have to drop all four. After ten, the statement is impossible to be proven true barring Wort recursion, and chances are if your Wort is recurring Ringleaders enough to make this statement true then you're either going to win as a result or are locked down and can't win, and in either of those cases the whole point is irrelevant.
Speaking as someone who's played the deck since Legacy began, I'm aware that to a degree, the more Goblins you have the better. However, there's a fine line in here somewhere. In some cases, other cards are necessary. Otherwise we wouldn't be running land, Aether Vial, or any other non-goblin sideboard card. Loam is no more a Goblin than is Pyrokinesis, Tormod's Crypt, Chalice of the Void, Krosan Grip, Thoughtseize, Smother, or anything else.Quote:
Also Vial goblins need as much goblins as possible to work sufficiently.
Not always. Very often Goblins doesn't win by being faster than the opponent. It wins by being more inevitable than the opponent and by overwhelming him with more goblins than he can deal with (Loam also assists with this by making you not miss land drops, which allows you to do ridiculously broken shit around turn six or so.)Quote:
As for wasteland lock wouldn't it be better just to try to win as fast as possible.
Loam for Wastelock would be most boarded in against control decks in all probability. I wouldn't, for example, board it in against Threshold, unless they were also putting a significant effort towards wrecking my manabase via Wasteland/Stifle/Force-or-Needle on Vial as well.
It could also be noted that it has synergy with Barbarian Ring as well, for a win condition that can fight through a lot of hate, kill Silver Knights and other pro red creatures, and might be decent in the mirror.