[Discussion] Hulk Flash

If you are running the Kiki-Guide combo, and looking for a good solution for Pithing Needle, I got some (secret ?) tech: one Volrath's Shapeshifter and one Hearth Kami in the sideboard ! If Needle is out, you get a Feeder, Kami and Shapeshifter (copying Hulk) with the first Hulk, sac the Shapeshifter to the Feeder for a Hulk trigger, and proceed to go off with Guide after you pay one for Kami to destroy the bad bad Needle.

Also, if this deck turns out to be out in force as much as I think, I reckon it would be pretty good to play REBs in the main (and in the side), as they can even defend against a zero or first turn kill with SSG, and the only matchup where you don't want them is black discard (since you win against, say, Goblins and Loam and whatnot anyway, but have counters and the mirror to worry about). In addition, they can take care of Meddling Mages, which could be important.

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Originally Posted by georgjorge

If you are running the Kiki-Guide combo, and looking for a good solution for Pithing Needle, I got some (secret ?) tech: one Volrath's Shapeshifter and one Hearth Kami in the sideboard ! If Needle is out, you get a Feeder, Kami and Shapeshifter (copying Hulk) with the first Hulk, sac the Shapeshifter to the Feeder for a Hulk trigger, and proceed to go off with Guide after you pay one for Kami to destroy the bad bad Needle.

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You run into the problem that Hulk enters the graveyard while Flash is still resolving, meaning that when Shapeshifter, Feeder, and Kami enter play and flash finishes resolving, it will become the top card of the graveyard. Shapeshifter will be nothing and you cannot use the Shapeshifter to copy hulk triggers. Just saying.

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Originally Posted by SpikeyMikey

I dunno if it's been mentioned, but you could use Lat-Nam's Legacy. It's not something you can do the same turn you're comboing, since it costs 2, but it allows you to shuffle the offending critter back in, and next upkeep, you get 2 cards. I used it a lot, I bought a box of Alliances and had a blast doing 4-6 man drafts from it. It's b-b-b-busted in limited.

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This seems bad. If you're going to do anything of this nature, at least make it Scroll Rack, which actually gives you powerful dig when you need it. Not to mention, works the turn you want it.

I found a little tech on how to beat Swords with the Kiki verson.

Run:
1x Body Double
1x Benevolent Bodyguard
2x Carrion Feeder

So on your first Hulk get Body Double + Feeder
If opponent Swords Feeder get a second one.
If opponent doesn't Swords get Karmic Guide + Benevolent Bodyguard. GG

Teardrop Kami and Bloodshot Cyclops could be interesting tech in the Kiki version, and other 1cc cards like Elvish Scrapper can remove the Pithing Needle if the opponent named Kiki and not the Feeder (It can still be Worldly Tutored for to).

Gorilla Shaman > Elvish Scrapper

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Originally Posted by nightshade81

I found a little tech on how to beat Swords with the Kiki verson.

Run:
1x Body Double
1x Benevolent Bodyguard
2x Carrion Feeder

So on your first Hulk get Body Double + Feeder
If opponent Swords Feeder get a second one.
If opponent doesn't Swords get Karmic Guide + Benevolent Bodyguard. GG

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That is kind of neat. And I guess Body Double also pitches to Force if you draw it (in which case I guess you just hope for the best).

Or if they make you discard Hulk, I guess you can just go for the 6/6 beats.


Edit: Wait a second.

Flash -> Hulk into

Body Double, removing Hulk, and Carrion Feeder. Sac Body Double to get up

Karmic Guide + Benevolent Bodyguard...


Then what? You've RFG'd the Hulk.

When does Body Double remove anything?

Morim is right, Body Double chooses but I see nothing that requires a removal from game. Hulk is still in the graveyard.

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

This seems bad. If you're going to do anything of this nature, at least make it Scroll Rack, which actually gives you powerful dig when you need it. Not to mention, works the turn you want it.

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That's true... but Scroll isn't good in multiples, and doesn't pitch to FoW. I don't know if that's a significant factor at this point, since the Pact is serving as the second set of free counter post FS.

What am I running in the Kiki/Sky Hussar version? Well, I hate having multiples clog my hand, and I needed protection from Swords and bounce, and such.... enter Plaxmanta and Hunted Wumpus. Go read those cards. Done? Well, here's the list since I'm not going to Columbus...


// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
3 Underground Sea
5 Island
3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta

// Creatures
1 Plaxmanta
4 Protean Hulk
1 Sky Hussar
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Indrik Stomphowler
2 Hunted Wumpus
4 Simian Spirit Guide

// Spells
4 Force of Will
3 Duress
1 Echoing Truth
1 Chain of Vapor
3 Merchant Scroll
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Flash
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Misdirection
2 Lim-Dul's Vault

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Duress
SB: 2 Lim-Dul's Vault
SB: 3 Stifle
SB: 3 Massacre
SB: 4 Disrupt
SB: 2 Open Slots


This is all desiged to fight Needle, Swords, and of course, maintain a high Control/Threat density. The pieces in the combo are dead if they get stuck in your hand, so Hunted Wumpus helps you out. Plaxmanta go protect your guys from Swords, but if your opponent responds to one of your win conditions, use Misdirections to fire elsewhere, or at a Wumpus.
Even if your opponent manages to Plow Kiki, you still have 2 6/6 monsters, 1 4/4 Beast, and another synthetic monster on your side of the board. If they do answer it, they still have to deal with monsters.

So far, it's hard to find a way to protect the kill with just Plaxmanta, and there has to be something better.

The rest of the list is self-explanatory really....

Uh, Anti? How exactly does your deck win?

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Originally Posted by CorruptedAngel

Morim is right, Body Double chooses but I see nothing that requires a removal from game. Hulk is still in the graveyard.

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My mistake.


Anti:

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Originally Posted by Oracle

When Hunted Wumpus comes into play, each other player may put a creature card from his or her hand into play.

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I mean, what, you thought it was a 4 mana 6/6 that let you play an additional creature for free with no drawbacks, or what?

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

I mean, what, you thought it was a 4 mana 6/6 that let you play an additional creature for free with no drawbacks, or what?

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Even if it did do that, wouldn't his deck have to Flash TWICE to win?

Ok. I have to share this. This is the story of how ridiculously nefarious this deck is.

A couple friends of mine have been going into a few magic-related chat rooms and bitching about this deck. I hate chat rooms on principle. However, I suggested as a joke that we go into chat rooms for topics completely unrelated to Magic and start bitching about Hulk Flash. So we're doing this, confusing the shit out of people, and so forth. And we all eventually get around to piling into fucking Yahoo Pool, of all things. And we get in there and another group of people is already fucking talking about the deck.

In Yahoo Pool.

Jesus, Hulk Flash is like the new Auto-Aimer.

Tacosnape, you just won the thread.

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

This seems bad. If you're going to do anything of this nature, at least make it Scroll Rack, which actually gives you powerful dig when you need it. Not to mention, works the turn you want it.

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Well Jack, I imagine you want to avoid drawing any more of your combo creatures, which Legacy does, since you can go off the next upkeep before you draw those cards if you have the rest of the combo or a way to get it all together, and it's an instant, and it's blue, and it costs 1 less mana to use than scroll rack in a deck that wants to go off ASAP. I think it's better than Scroll Rack, I certainly wouldn't run 4 of them, but 4xBrainstorm 2xLat-Nam's Legacy should work just fine.

Academy Rector and Accursed Centaur is a compact win condition, because the Summoner's Pact can be used to find the Protean Hulk and the Protean Hulk can be used to find Academy Rector and Accursed Centaur (1cc in creatures left over) and the Academy Rector can find something to win the game. In Vintage Academy Recto can get Yawgmoth's Bargain, but is there anything in Legacy that lets you win immediately?

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Originally Posted by BreathWeapon

Academy Rector and Accursed Centaur is a compact win condition, because the Summoner's Pact can be used to find the Protean Hulk and the Protean Hulk can be used to find Academy Rector and Accursed Centaur (1cc in creatures left over) and the Academy Rector can find something to win the game. In Vintage Academy Recto can get Yawgmoth's Bargain, but is there anything in Legacy that lets you win immediately?

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Why wouldn't we just Flash the Academy Rector and skip Protean Hulk, then?

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

Why wouldn't we just Flash the Academy Rector and skip Protean Hulk, then?

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Uhhhh... no shit. Is this really just so you can search for Hulk With Pact?

In keeping with this logic, I have your answer: Make a 250 card deck, Pact for Hulk, Flash Hulk, get Rector and Accursed Centaur, sac Rector to Centaur, fetch up OHMYFUCKINGCHRIST BATTLE OF FUCKING WITS! Booyah! Best combo ever, and it only takes up 3 combo slots! Just... like... Karmic Guide, Kiki-Jiki, and Carrion Feeder. Savage.