[DTB] U/G/x Thresh - a.k.a. Not Quite Gro, SuperGro

Has anyone taken a look at:

Perilous Research
1U (2), Instant
Draw two cards, then sacrifice a permanent.

Perilous Research does put two cards in your graveyard. The nice thing it does not require you to sacrifice the permanent has part of the cast cost or before you draw your cards. I can see it being used in response to one of your permanents (Mage, Werebear, Needle, a land) being destroyed.

Not going to advocate that it could replace one of the current mainstream cantrips being played, but definitely seems like it might be a good late game addition in the form of 1 or 2s.

So is Predict considered worth playing, as a 4 of, almost all the time now? How does it fit into 8 cantrip versions, such as classic Bardo Thresh?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mirrislegend

So is Predict considered worth playing, as a 4 of, almost all the time now? How does it fit into 8 cantrip versions, such as classic Bardo Thresh?

---

At this point I would be just guessing since I haven't actually tested the legitimancy of Perilous Research.

As for 16 could cantrip version.

4 BS
4 SV
3 PE
3 PO
2 PR

And the 12 cantrip version

4 BS
3 SV
3 MN
2 PR

Or

4 BS
4 SV
4 MN

and make 2 PR fit. Again, just speculatory at this point.

i dont like Perilous Research just because its situational if you dont have excess land. i will reveal my tech after the DLD 8-5-06

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moby Dick

i dont like Perilous Research just because its situational if you dont have excess land. i will reveal my tech after the DLD 8-5-06

---

That’s why I won't include more than 2. Late game I could see it being beneficial, possibly more than Predict. Unless you are just holding on to some of cantrip to partner with it.

With Mishra's Bauble, what do you guys think of running something like this...

4 Serum Visions
4 Brainstorm
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Predict

Do you think such a build could or should make due without running the 3 Notes normally used.

More importantly, do you think Mishra's Bauble should replace Portent since it costs 0 mana, leaving you open to play threats, fills your yard and combos so well with Predict?

Also about Serum Visions, do you scry before or after you draw a card. Is it your option?

And lastly, should this deck run 2 Counterbalance, since it runs so much topdeck manipulation anyways?

The order you do things is the order printed on the card. With serum visions you definatly have to draw before you scry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuckerPunch

With Mishra's Bauble, what do you guys think of running something like this...

4 Serum Visions
4 Brainstorm
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Predict

Do you think such a build could or should make due without running the 3 Notes normally used.

More importantly, do you think Mishra's Bauble should replace Portent since it costs 0 mana, leaving you open to play threats, fills your yard and combos so well with Predict?

---

I don't think mishra's bauble should replace portent because portent can help you find answers unlike bauble.

Bauble does do some nice things. It has synergy with a good amount of cards. Predict is an obvious one. Fetch lands have synergy with this too, don't like what you see, then shuffle your library. It has synergy with portent because if you use it on yourself you may decide you like the card and want to portent your opponent instead, and if you don't like the card then portent yourself; also if you bauble your opponent and see a great card on top then you can decide to potent him to shuffle it away. It has synergy with serum visions, allowing you to see what is on top if you want to draw it turn one with your visions or if you should cast a different cantrip turn one. It allows for faster threshold because it costs zero mana to play, thus allowing your other cantrips to be played faster.

I think the bauble deserves at least some play testing in grow to see how it works out. Although clearly has synergy with the deck, one of the main problems it has is weather or not it is better than anything the deck already runs.

bauble is meh, can't pitch it to fow, and doesnt do anything on its own.

other than adding to your graveyard and thinning the deck all for 0cc you mean.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuckerPunch

other than adding to your graveyard and thinning the deck all for 0cc you mean.

---

Does it help increase card quality? Is it better than Mental note/Predict/Brainstorm/Portent/Serum Visions? If we were to play 20 cantrips maybe but it doesn't increase card quality at all. Opt would even be better.

The main advantage it has is that it's 0cc. That means you can cast it turn 2 while playing a Meddling Mage, or leaving mana open for counterspell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuckerPunch

The main advantage it has is that it's 0cc. That means you can cast it turn 2 while playing a Meddling Mage, or leaving mana open for counterspell.

---

We play daze so we can tap out and counter stuff. If it's main advantage is that it's 0cc, why aren't we playing moxen? That means turn 1 mage OR counterspell. Then on your turn two play another mox and that's a second turn Enforcer! Wait!... If we up the land count we can play mox diamond and make 5c gro!

Or even better, we can keep the discusion in the LMF relevant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wastedlife

We play daze so we can tap out and counter stuff. If it's main advantage is that it's 0cc, why aren't we playing moxen? That means turn 1 mage OR counterspell. Then on your turn two play another mox and that's a second turn Enforcer! Wait!... If we up the land count we can play mox diamond and make 5c gro!

---

Because it's 0cc that's card neutral, not card disadvantage. You're right, why DOESN'T Thresh play Moxen? Because they cos a card. Bauble doesn't. Well, it doesn't after a turn, but if there's enough of a push to play Portent then Bauble should be (theoretically) fine. It also helps so much with Predict.

Speaking of Portent, isn't the biggest reason to play it to help out with Predict synergy? If so, wouldn't Bauble be a really good replacement for it? I mean, I've never played with Portent so I can't comment on the shuffling aspect, but looking at the top card for free compared to looking at the top 3 for a manas seems like a good trade. In theory anyway.

bauble doesn't affect the game state in anyway, if all you want is a cantrip, there are much better option for this.

I really don't see Mishra's Bauble fitting into the deck. It could replace Portent if you run it, but then again Bauble can't be pitched to FOW.

@Perilous Research:It would be run, if it wasn't for the sacrifice. In the first few turns you really don't want to sac needed lands, or a critter and by the late game Threshold shouldn't be a problem. If you really want to draw extra cards splash for Dark Confidant or play the Black version.

All this talk about replacing Portent with Mishra's Bauble seem to overlook the fact that Portent allows you to look 5 cards deep into your deck for one mana. That is deeper than any other cantrip in the deck. Mishra's Bauble will only dig 2 deep less than any other cantrip in the deck. In a deck like threshold the quality of the cards drawn is as important if not more important than the quantity of cards drawn
For reference
Cards viewed
Mishra's Bauble 2
Brainstorm 3
Portent (no shuffling) 3
Serum Visions (scry both on top) 3
Brainstorm + Fetch 4
Serum Visions (scry both on bottom) 4
Portent (shuffling) 5

I assume your numbers include your next draw step, that does not seem like it should be included. By that logic, playing no spells digs one card deep. I guess it is ok if what you are looking for is a land that you want to play next turn and not that turn. However if you are looking for a creature this turn, or a counter or removal for your opponents turn, then those numbers don't make much sense.

And bauble has the ability to look very deep. You can bauble into another cantrip then play that cantrip to dig deeper allowing you to dig one card deeper than just playing the cantrip alone for the same amount of mana. It seems that you are forgetting that you can play other spells the same turn as bauble, or on your opponents turn, which is the main reason to play the card. It actually can dig deeper (with no extra mana) than anything else.

For instaance say you bauble and then portent first turn. That allows you to dig (using your math) 6 cards into your deck on turn 1 for only 1 mana and no card disadvantge. Its not the bauble alone that is good, it is combined with other cards that makes it good because it is free alowwing you to still cast all your other cards. Its not like all you can do is go first turn bauble go, then start playing your other cantrips turn two. That is what you are making it sound like; that by playing first turn bauble you only get to dig one card when instead you could dig more cards by playing something else. Why not play bauble and something else first turn and dig father than any thing else could.