[Deck] Goyf Sligh

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Originally Posted by don mäxen

I don´t think that pridemage is a good choice. The only enchantments that are really problematic are chalice and balance, and shusher handles both without lost of a threat. Other things like shackles or moat are too slow in the most cases to be problematic. Furthermore the casting coast is really bad u are forced to fetch plateau and taiga what u dont want without having nacatl.

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There are a few more. Humility, CoP:Red, Solitary Confinement just to name a few I had to play against. Shusher is just good against those that try to counter you things.

Furthermore I am always considering to play "effects on a stick" not to loose aggro potential. But I am not sure about it because creatures are obviously more easily to handle. Let me explain in more detail of what I am aiming at. Your current SB consists of 15 non creature spells. What if you like to board lets say Grip and Vortex or Grip and Orb? Either you loose Burnpower or Creaturepower. OK sometimes PoP just does nothing and can be boarded easily but especially against Control Matchups they usually shine (apart from MUC). Thats e.g. the reason I added Magus instead of Blood Moon and Hooligan as Mini Grip 4 and 5. I am not totally set on Pridemage but he follows this "on a stick " principle.

To sum up some choices to consider that come into my mind right now:

• Blood Moon or Magus of the Moon
• Pyrostatic Pillar or Ethersworn Canonist
• Grip or/and Tin Street Hooligan/Pridemage
• Orb or Gaddock Teeg

Question to the guys playing Figure? Doesnt an early figure eat up all your mana and suddenly you find yourself without it (swords) and you loose 1-2 rounds of sustaining the pressure ...

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Originally Posted by don mäxen

I don´t think that pridemage is a good choice. The only enchantments that are really problematic are chalice and balance, and shusher handles both without lost of a threat. Other things like shackles or moat are too slow in the most cases to be problematic. Furthermore the casting coast is really bad u are forced to fetch plateau and taiga what u dont want without having nacatl.

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Chalice and Counterbalance are both deadly, and yes, Shusher answers those too. But what about Trinisphere, Blood Moon, Ghostly Prison, Moat, Smokestack, Threads of Disloyalty, Shackles, Jitte, SoFI, Elephant Grass, in addition to Humility, CoP:Red, and Solitary Confinement (and everything Enchantress for that matter) which Nekrataal already mentioned? There are SO many threats that Pridemage gives you an out against game one. Throw in the possibility of trading 2-for-1 with Tops, Moxen, Factories, various equipment, PLUS exalted, and you have a very strong card that is in my opinion much more versatile and a better maindeck utility card than Shusher.

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Originally Posted by Nekrataal

Question to the guys playing Figure? Doesnt an early figure eat up all your mana and suddenly you find yourself without it (swords) and you loose 1-2 rounds of sustaining the pressure ...

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Playing him makes it harder to play basics and/or Wasteland but he is good. You just need plenty of red sources.

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Originally Posted by Nekrataal

Question to the guys playing Figure? Doesnt an early figure eat up all your mana and suddenly you find yourself without it (swords) and you loose 1-2 rounds of sustaining the pressure ...

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As long as you have other guys to play and no massremoval to fear you never pump FIgure to 4/4.

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Originally Posted by Van Phanel

As long as you have other guys to play and no massremoval to fear you never pump FIgure to 4/4.

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So he does not make more then 2 damage usually (and in response to him pumping to 4/4 he gets killed ;) ) Isn't a creature that deals more damage a turn or 2 fewer better? So far the arguments were not too convincing.

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Originally Posted by keys

Chalice and Counterbalance are both deadly, and yes, Shusher answers those too. But what about Trinisphere, Blood Moon, Ghostly Prison, Moat, Smokestack, Threads of Disloyalty, Shackles, Jitte, SoFI, Elephant Grass, in addition to Humility, CoP:Red, and Solitary Confinement (and everything Enchantress for that matter) which Nekrataal already mentioned? There are SO many threats that Pridemage gives you an out against game one. Throw in the possibility of trading 2-for-1 with Tops, Moxen, Factories, various equipment, PLUS exalted, and you have a very strong card that is in my opinion much more versatile and a better maindeck utility card than Shusher.

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I wouldnt go that far right now. In my meta Shusher is suberb because 50% plus of the decks play U and for Enchantment/Artifact removal Grip has prio 1. Annoying cards that do not seal the game if not removed are Trinisphere, Blood Moon (is not a big problem since we play red and we can fetch an Forest early), Ghostly Prison, Threads, Shacklesn but Moat, CoP:Red, Confinement and Humility own us like Counterbalance and Chalice without a Shusher. Smokestack is pretty slow so I also wouldnt mind too much. For Jitte we have Jitte and removal of the creature that carries Jitte, so basically we need Enchantment/Artifact Removal for the (Aggro) Control/Lock Matchups where all these cards have found a home, well OK Enchantress is out of the line here but the rest of the mentioned cards all belong to CounterTop, Landstill, MUC, Stax ... So i could image Pridemage as a SB slot for Tin Street Hooligans right now but nothing more. Increasing the amount of Plateaus surely makes you more vulnerable to non-basic land destruction. As I stated before Plateaus are first target for it. I had a couple of situation where I couldnt cast Helix because of it so 2 Plateaus even maybe 3 may not be enough.

If you happen to make it to the late game, Figure is nuts. I've dropped him, made him a 2/2, then 4/4 in the same turn. Next turn attacked with an 8/8 avatar.

Granted, this was a rare occasion, but no other card in the deck can do this.


[edit: nevermind, Tarmobroke does relatively the same job, with less issues. We should all be killing our opponents instead of pumping dudes.]

@ Nekrataal: I'm not advocating Pridemage instead of Grip, I'm saying Pridemage is the best proactive maindeck solution.

Also, not all builds play basics and Moon hurts your main beaters, Nacatl and Goyf. (Of course if you can't cast Goyf, you probably can't cast Pridemage, you'd have to hope you already had one in play, so maybe that's beside the point.)

My point is not that we always need some form of enchantment/artifact removal. My point is that Pridemage is good enough in its own right, with an efficient body and a strong ability, which has plenty of applications.

Having him maindeck means you can reserve your sideboard for more effective answers like Grip instead of compromises like Tin Street Hooligan, which are meant to be maindeck cards for their versatility.

what do you guys think on splashing black for dark confidant?

I can certainly see how Confidant would fit in, but then you're hurting your manabase further for 1 card that doesn't primarily function to beat or burn. Yes, draw = more threats, but it's at the expense of tempo. Splashing black would also give you access to Thoughtseize, etc., but then you're just diluting the deck. At that point you're venturing into Red Death territory, and Eva Green is just superior.

The splash for white gives you a solid upgrade to your beaters in the form of Nacatl, while keeping the focus on tempo (not to mention more useful sideboard options), so I see that splash as warranted.

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Originally Posted by keys

I can certainly see how Confidant would fit in, but then you're hurting your manabase further for 1 card that doesn't primarily function to beat or burn. Yes, draw = more threats, but it's at the expense of tempo. Splashing black would also give you access to Thoughtseize, etc., but then you're just diluting the deck. At that point you're venturing into Red Death territory, and Eva Green is just superior.

The splash for white gives you a solid upgrade to your beaters in the form of Nacatl, while keeping the focus on tempo (not to mention more useful sideboard options), so I see that splash as warranted.

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OK, thanks for the insight. Right now I have a white splash version built but I haven't really playtested more obscure varients (like a black splash).

Has anyone else tested hellspark elemental?
I cut marauders from my list for it and it's been working really well for me.
I recently won a 46 man tourney for a sapphire with this list:

Maindeck:

3 Figure of Destiny
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
3 Price of Progress
3 Fireblast
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
2 Barbarian Ring
3 Taiga
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
6 Mountain

Sideboard:

1 Forest
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Flamebreak
4 Krosan Grip

The sideboard has since been changed though.
It now looks like this:

4 Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast
3 Krosan Grip
3 Flamebreak
2 Shattering Spree
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Price of Progress

I run the Hellspark, but only as a 3 of. I believe he's better overall than the Marauders. There are times where you'd rather have something that can block a turn, but being able to unearth under a Trinisphere or Standstill has been well worth the trade.....not to mention unearth isn't counterable by traditional means.

I've also been using this main deck meta package:

2x Null Rod
2x Vexing Shusher
2x Krosan Grip

Shusher is the most specific match-up dependent and gets sided out the most, but is the most influential when beating blue. Null Rod is just a hammer in the current meta. Dropping it shuts down many acceleration and recovery strategies (Shackles, EE, SDT, LED, Petal, Moxen, Jitte, Vial).
And Grip is Grip. Not expected main and will randomly steal games. It saved me game 1 against Enchantress last week.

I found Shusher useless so far in testing.
It gets removed before doing anything most of the time.
I had it sb at the Grand Prix and almost always wished it was a reb.
How has null rod done so far for you?
I've been thinking about it as a sb spot.

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Originally Posted by whienot

I run the Hellspark, but only as a 3 of. I believe he's better overall than the Marauders. There are times where you'd rather have something that can block a turn, but being able to unearth under a Trinisphere or Standstill has been well worth the trade.....not to mention unearth isn't counterable by traditional means.

I've also been using this main deck meta package:

2x Null Rod
2x Vexing Shusher
2x Krosan Grip

Shusher is the most specific match-up dependent and gets sided out the most, but is the most influential when beating blue. Null Rod is just a hammer in the current meta. Dropping it shuts down many acceleration and recovery strategies (Shackles, EE, SDT, LED, Petal, Moxen, Jitte, Vial).
And Grip is Grip. Not expected main and will randomly steal games. It saved me game 1 against Enchantress last week.

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Looks like NullRod is finally taking off my friend. Good call:cool:

Tourney Report since i couldn't come and all?

What advantages does this deck have over Zoo? (W/G/R aggro)

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

What advantages does this deck have over Zoo? (W/G/R aggro)

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It can, Bolt Bolt Fireblast in response to tendrils after a resolved Ad Naseum. Tendrils players see a Taiga and don't care too much about protection.

Zoo has that problem. Zoo's damage sources stick around longer. And i believe Zoo has a better mid-late game.

Zoo bends this deck over, rips its brow-eye, gives no warning before jizzing in its mouth, and never calls. Well..... outside of the random double Price of Progress win. But, GoyfSligh has its advantages.

It's more resilient to creature removal, and as LoxodonBaileyarch mentioned, Bolt, Bolt, Fireblast wins games. Not only against combo.

As requested by Senor Baileyarch.

I've made Top8 every week for the last month with GoyfSligh, typically only losing a game or 2.

Sorry for the lack of details.

Rd1: Ugb Trinket Mage/Goyf/Coatl Goodstuff 2-0
G1. I drop a turn 1 FoD. Jet a Coatl. He steals my figure just before Null Rod resolves and kill the figure. The game ends with 1 Tarmogoyf on my side, 3 Tarmogoyfs on his side (one stolen with Sower), a Trinket Mage on his side, and a resolved Price of Progress for 14. Yeah burn...
G2. Shusher is the real winner here. Everything is uncounterable.

Rd2: Enchantress 2-0
G1: The aforementioned Krosan Grip on Confinement did it.
G2: I suspend a Rift Bolt, he plays Confinement, I take 3. Awesome. He couldn't keep it up and gets burned out.

Rd3: Counter Slivers 2-0
G1: He gets double vial, but is stuck on 1 land. Grip a vial with 2 counters slows him enough for Shusher + PoP + Fireblast to win it.
G2: Resolved Price of Progress. Nuff Said.

Rd4: Rw Goblins - Draw

Top8
Ugr Thrash
Rd1: T1 FoD ends up becoming a 4/4. Hellsparks get countered, or bolted. But Figure puts on enough pressure to win it.
Rd2: He gets color screwed (all Volcanic Islands) and I have an aggressive hand of Bolt, Hellspark, Price and Fireblast. I think Shusher comes out to play, too.

Top4 Split.

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Originally Posted by whienot

I suspend a Rift Bolt, he plays Confinement, I take 3. Awesome.

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Remember that you can decide just to not play the spell and let it rest removed from the game (obviously if it doesn't matter for Goyf or Lavamancer).

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Originally Posted by whienot

Rd2: Enchantress 2-0
G1: The aforementioned Krosan Grip on Confinement did it.
G2: I suspend a Rift Bolt, he plays Confinement, I take 3. Awesome. He couldn't keep it up and gets burned out.

Top4 Split.

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Have you ever felt that white splash for Qasali Pridemages (and Nacatls) would be better than having to main deck Grips? What do you run?

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Originally Posted by GreenOne

Remember that you can decide just to not play the spell and let it rest removed from the game (obviously if it doesn't matter for Goyf or Lavamancer).

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I'm not a rules buff, but the card says "play it" not "you may play it" when the last time counter is removed.

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Originally Posted by keys

What do you run?

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4 Lightning Bolt
3 Magma Jet
3 Fireblast
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Mogg Fanatic
3 Figure of Destiny
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Chain Lightning
3 Price of Progress
3 Hellspark Elemental
3 Rift Bolt
2 Vexing Shusher
2 Krosan Grip
2 Null Rod
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
7 Mountain
1 Forest

Sideboard:
1 Krosan Grip
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Null Rod
2 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Reverent Silence
3 Firespout
2 Vexing Shusher

It's 61 cards. I could just cut a land, but 20 helps with consistency.
The side is a little odd, but not without reasons. I've lost to Rock's Hierarchs and StPs, so I added the Vortex. Reverent Silence is for Enchantress and Stax that is becoming to regular. Firespout was actually in response to Baileyarch beating me senseless with Zoo, but will double as 'sum good'ol horde burnin'.
2 Crypts, when Pulp_Fiction asks to borrow a combo card, I assume he won't be playing "Good Dredge." :cool:

Fanatics may go completely. Then I can be a good player and use a full set of Magma Jet and play 60 cards.

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Have you ever felt that white splash for Qasali Pridemages (and Nacatls) would be better than having to main deck Grips?

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Better than Grips main? Possibly. I'm still tinkering around with GoyfSligh and very well could try a white splash. The deck has such a solid mana base right now and I'd hate to give that up against things like Stax and Merfolk. And if you're going to splash white, you're about 2 steps from playing Zoo.

Is there a way to build Rgw that isn't Zoo or Goysligh? Or, as the game progresses will the 2 decks slowly blend?

There is no "Good Dredge" deck, there is only two versions, one that seriously loses to hate cards and one that doesn't, that simple :) I could see Hellspark being a little annoying against Dredge but not to much of a problem. Zoo would stomp the shit out of this but Zoo also has some problems with Shackles where as Sligh can just hang back and throw burn at the opponent's face, and it also has a much better Landstill matchup than Zoo. The Pridemage has made that deck so fucking good though, its ridiculous!

I don't think you could ever have a Hybrid without it being more one than the other, Zoo plays 18-23 creatures and 8-10 burn spells, pretty standard. Goyf Sligh plays shit tons of burn and 12-16 creatures. With the addition of white you would HAVE to add the Pridemage, Nacatl, Helix, and StP (because these are the best options available and it would be ignorant not to). Watchwolf is damn good and makes sense in Zoo but Figure seems better in Goyf Sligh. Basically it would be Zoo without Scroll and Jitte and more burn .... but Zoo is a LOT better at dealing with COP Red which, for some reason, I have run into quite a few times.

Also that card you loaned me, didn't cast the damn thing once so I have no idea if it works or not :( Glad I didn't buy it though! I hate buying blue cards, I know I will use them in one deck and never again!