I agree W splash Dreadstill isn't played enough...it's very good.
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I agree W splash Dreadstill isn't played enough...it's very good.
There's been a lot of talk about this deck lately about the viability of it... Of course it's viable because it's ben posting good results everywhere, the question is, is dreadnought the best win condition, or it is just a flashy condition just to hide the real "big thing" going behind this deck, the blue control, mishra's factory/standstill, trinket mage toolbox ?
Even though dreadnought can end the game in 2 turns, it still looks fragile, especially with more and more people knowing the deck and preparing for him.
So, is dreadnought the real deal, or is he hidding the "real" deck ?
Just some food for thought...
(sorry about the bad english)
edit: i forgot to mention.... the consistent manabase...
Honestly I'm getting really sick of answering this question. Yes the Dreadnoughts are the real deal. Sure you win plenty of games without them, but you also win a ton of games that you would otherwise lose without them. No, no other creature can fill the role. Tarmogoyf just gets chumped or stares at another Tarmogoyf. Dreadnought just wins because he's huge and he tramples. Now please STOP ASKING IF THE DECK REALLY NEEDS DREADNOUGHT. On a side note, this question tells me that you have never tested the deck so please, next time before you question the mechanics of a deck TEST IT for yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by claudio.r
Edit: Sorry if I came off as a gerk that really wasn't directed at you Claudio, just that same over asked question in general.
Just out of curiosity, does this mean you are getting off the Tarmogoyf train?Quote:
Originally Posted by J.V.
I still run Tarmogoyf, the card is ridiculous, Tarmogoyf just plain and simply is NOT a replacement for Dreadnought.Quote:
Originally Posted by bocci
Maybe i didn't explained myself very well, i was not asking if the deck really need dreadnought, my question was more like, is drednought that makes this deck so good, or the consistent engine behind it.
I played some matches with the deck in MWS just to have the feeling but
i didn't really realized what pushes the deck to the top... but hey, maybe it's just the mix of the two...
Dreadnought is a two turn kill when he lands. Particularly in the control mirror that kind of win condition is very strong, because it allows almost no room for recovery after the game tips. The only other creature in Legacy that might be as impactful in the shell is Tarmogoyf and for all of the benefits he provides in terms of not needing a stifle effect he doesn't have the same impact that Dreadnought does.
Here are the things that Dreadnought can theoretically do that Tarmogoyf just cannot:
1. Kill Bridges from Below on turn 1. A real benefit in a deck that can also drop Engineered Explosives on turn 2 and activate it to get rid of 3 or 4 tokens before dying.
2. Kill the opponent on turn 4 after landing turn 2 when the right opportunity presents itself. Or when you just have no choice. I remember vividly my opponent in one of the Hadley tournaments screaming when I dropped a turn 2 Dreadnought (not playing Dreadstill) on the play and he realized his strong Ichorid draw was going to lose.
3. Stand-down an opposing Dreadnought.
4. Make an opposing Tarmogoyf seem weak and insignificant in the overall scheme of things.
5. Trample over a recurring Mishra's Factory or Mutavault chump blocker.
12/12 Trample is just an absolutely ridiculous beater, even if it requires an enabling card. It's so ridiculous that I expect that some deck will be built (maybe using the Shards of Alara cards that support Dreadnought) that will likely cause it to be banned from Legacy at some point.
Ok, on that note yes I would say it is the mix of the two. If you focus on the Dreadnought, you will be beaten by a blue control deck. If you focus on the blue control deck you will be smashed by a 12/12, that's why the deck is so good.Quote:
Originally Posted by claudio.r
From "all" the decks with a blue shell (force, daze, BS, etc) would you recommend this one to take to a field full of little kids with their elves, zombies, whatever, creature decks ? Because here where I live it's really hard to get the cards, and i do have some large part of the blue control package. Last tournament i went, i took a threshold variant with black for extra removal, and somehow i still managed to get my ass kicked by little kids that just dump creatures on the board.
I know that little kid aggro it's not the blue control player best friend,but i need somehow to have a better chance of beating them...
Fast aggro isnnt dreadstill best MU, it's not a bad matchup but against little kid aggro i would suggest a deck like Belcher if you really want to rape them :eek:
But yeah Ugr dread would do great you get tarmo and firespout/pyroclasm, ee and stuff to get them, and t2 dreadgnought is usuly gg against that kind of deck.
I'm currently testing against Eva green and have problems if I can't succed to install a CB/top lock or a quick mana denial + quick dreadnought.
I check my SB:
// Sideboard
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Firespout
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Magus of the Moon
SB: 3 Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Chill
And I don't see anything to break their disrupt spells that generally kills me. So I started searching for some anti-disrupt cards:
Misdirection:
You may remove a blue card in your hand from the game rather than pay Misdirection's mana cost.
Change the target of target spell with a single target
Pros:
-Free so we can play it on first turn if the opponent won the roll and has Thoughtseize 1st turn
-Allow us to check opponent's hand when we do it on Thoughtseize
-Pretty versatile
Cons:
-We must discard two cards if we can't hardcast it (most of the time we will not hardcast it).
Disrupt:
Change the target of target spell with a single target unless that spell's controller pays {2}
Pros:
-Doesn't cause to discards a card so it's 1 for 1. Possibly 1 for 2 (in the case of Thoughtseize)
Cons:
-Cost 1 so we can't do it on a won roll/1st turn Thoughtseize.
-Bad on late game (this is not that much important because disrupt break us early on the game)
Life force:
{G}{G}: Counter target black spell.
Too much expansive on G mana.
Compost:
Whenever a black card is put into an opponent's graveyard from anywhere, you may draw a card
Pros:
-Good all the fucking game long
-Completly dodge the card disavantage of the opponent's disrupt
Cons:
-Cost 2... so it can be discarded before we have the time to play it.
-Not really versatile.
Have other ideas? Looks like Misdirection or Compost are the best choices.
PM
For Uwr decks; Spiritual focus or True Believer are pretty good cards.
2x Threads of Disloyalty and 2x Echoing Truth in the sideboard. That's about as good a shot as you are going to get against a disruption engine that tries to knock you off balance and get up a cheap big critter fast. Threads takes everything but the Tombstalkers and Echong Truth slows them down until you can get something set on your side.
The 2x Threads and 2x ET are pretty standard sideboard stuff for Dreadstill builds.
I already have 3x ET MD so I know it's pretty useful against Tombs but I feel I need something else and I doubt that Threads could fill this need... Could you prove I am wrong?Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolofaTook
I can't prove it, however Threads has been a fairly consistent inclusion in the SB of Dreadstill in many builds. It's one of the very few cards that you can top deck against Eva Green type aggro AFTER they've gone off on you and put the win on the table and beat them based solely on the top deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma
It also is one of those elusive 3cc spells that you like to have just sitting there on top of your deck when Krosan Grip or Wipe Away comes rolling in.
Just try to resolve a CB or a Standstill at all costs against EG...and don't run crappy manabases or they will have a field day with Wastelands.
I don't know, is Ichorid good because of Narcomoeba or is it good because of Bridge from Below?Quote:
Maybe i didn't explained myself very well, i was not asking if the deck really need dreadnought, my question was more like, is drednought that makes this deck so good, or the consistent engine behind it.
I played some matches with the deck in MWS just to have the feeling but
i didn't really realized what pushes the deck to the top... but hey, maybe it's just the mix of the two...
Hi everyone,
My nought playset is arriving soon, and I'm going to start testing/playing the Uw version first. I have always been fond of E.tutor. It increases the probability of t2 nought and works nicely with balance (and the rest of the deck). I was thinking of a 2/2split between tutor and t.mage.
I had in mind a very similar list as the UW list posted by Roodmistah p.32,
-1 trinket mage
-1 land/explosives/undecided (but surely I don't want to go below 14 blue sources)
+2 E.tutor.
I really like the 3 O-Rings main since they give quite a good curve for balance
and are always useful. Did someone miss the spell snares by the way?
As for the sideboard, it is quite undetermined yet, but I guess I'd like swords and BEB's against aggro/Goblins and some silver bullets such as needle/serenity/seal of cleasing perhaps.
Meddling Mage: How and when to board them?, Is it run basically against combo, Stax and krosan grip?
My only worry with the Uw version is that without goyf and firesprout/clasm, goblins can give you a hard time (Rg, Rgb) aswell as the random (but popular) critter decks. Is there any effective sweeper to take clasm's place (other than the too narrow tivadar's crusade)?
thanks,
3 Oblivion Rings main? This will surely slow the deck down. Imo 3 CMC3 spells are the perfect number, anything beyond this will end in slowness.
If you face aggro a lot, pack 4 Swords to Plowshares and 2 EE (admittedly better in 3 color versions but still your best sweeper) this should suffice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironstickman
For me are only two effective versions of the deck, the first one with Meddling Mage SB naming Grip. And the other one with Goyf for being not a Grip target.
The O.Ring is a good SB option without green, but i would not maindeck them 3x, the tutorable EE does this job better.
Yeah from my initial list I posted then I'd have to say to replace O-Rings with Swords in the maindeck. I'm not sure what you'd cut for the 4th maybe a land or Trinket Mage.