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Honestly, I don't feel like swans is the way to go with this deck. Swans is a 4-drop which is already pushing it for this style of play, and it also makes you want to hold onto burn to combo off rather than put pressure on other decks. We don't really have a good endgame, so stalling just seems bad. I understand counter/top gives you some longevity, but I think it just makes the deck unfocused. That's just me, tho.
That's only the problem with Chain of Plasma and that's why I'm trying to look into alternatives. As you can read in Adans report he used burn quite often to finish the opponent off and that's the way to use it. If the combo doesn't show up you play the deck as any other UGr Threshold.Quote:
Originally Posted by MULocke
Actually Swan is better than Fledgeling Dragon in several aspects:
-It is easier to cast, no :r::r:.
-Does not depend on the graveyard.
-cannot be killed by damage which is sometimes crucial even if the opponent draws cards. But it happens rarely I admit.
-Is a really good FOW pitch. Don't underestimate this. It's a real pain having Dragon sit on your hand. Doesn't happen with Swan to often. It is also the reason why more and more UGr lists play Sea Drake as 9-10th creature.
The downsides are that Swan is bad against decks featuring some kind of burn and Dragon usually kills faster but Swan is not only a finisher but a combo piece.
By far the coolest ability of Swans is to turn random "Oops, I lose" situations into "Oops, I win". Last week, while testing the build, I played a series of matches against various Loam decks (43L, The Perfect Loam, and something resembling Eternal Garden): I won them all 2-0. Game 1 I just ignored those Mazes of Ith and Ruins/EE, instead using counters and CBalance to buy time and fetching lots of lands to slow down the Waste/Port-lock, then went straight for the combo. Game 2 I'd add Blood Moon on top of that.
I think I like Swans in UGr Thresh. I just play the deck how I'd normally play and treat the Swans like the Dragons(pitchable to FoW Dragons :P).
I like Adan's list a lot. I just also like having Pyro's over Geese in the MD just because where I am, I have a lot of Weenie decks running around. It's also really cool with a Swan down because against a lot of decks, it's Wrath+Draw2.
Maybe it's one of those Danger Of Cool Things though.
Wasn't really hard to build, I just took a look at one of the Hatfield's old UGR Thresh lists (the Counterbalance Thresh with Dragons and Bolts) and remodeled it to give it a right to exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by chokin
Because, Clemens' and my UGW builds compared with the Hatfields' UGR builds always ended up in this comclusion:
UGW /w CBalance > UGR /w CBalance
because UGW has got StoPs (superior to Bolt, if it's meant to act as a removal) and Mystic Enforcer ( 4 Mana 6/6, pro Black > 4 Mana 5/5 with manaconsuming Firebreathing).
And because it has got better removal and a slightly more potent finisher, UGW can play the control-role better than UGR.
Red is, in m yopinion, meant to be a tempo-color, providing aggressiveness via reach.
But, with Swans+Chains, we finally have a reason to run UGR /w Counterbalance again:
The random "Oh, I win"-Combo. The deck still has got a solid beater and finally a higher burn-count again, which allows it to act aggressive under some circumstances.
Well... but I'm still not that happy about the 2/3 split of SDT/CBalance.
The maindeck is pretty tight and the only card that could be cut are the Predicts. So, my idea was to play the same cantrip-constellation like the Hatfields 5color Thresh (i.e 4 BS, 4 ponder, 2 Portent = 10 "Dig-3" Cantrips) to have space for the 3rd Top:
// Lands
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [A] Island (1)
4 [B] Tropical Island
4 [B] Volcanic Island
// Creatures
4 [OD] Nimble Mongoose
3 [SHM] Swans of Bryn Argoll
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
// Spells
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [B] Lightning Bolt
4 [LRW] Ponder
4 [IA] Brainstorm
3 [ON] Chain of Plasma
1 [CS] Lightning Storm
2 [IA] Portent
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [10E] Pyroclasm
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [IA] Hydroblast
SB: 3 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 3 [10E] Pithing Needle
Any ideas? I guess I need your advise now, because I won't listen to Clemens anymore concering this deck (he wants me to cut Geese and DAZES, WTF?!).
That's very, very close to what I'm running; the main difference is that I run the MoonThresh manabase, and a different side which includes Moons (also, 18 lands/3 Dazes). Maindeck I've been fiddling with those slots too: I tested and dismissed Pithing Needles and Spell Snares, and right now I've been trying a maindeck pair of Predators, since prison artifact or enchantments are what the combo still doesn't help against.
Ok, so I'm thinking ahead to am. champs for lack of any other tourneys in my area. I'm gonna run the same MD as before (why mess with success?), but the SB was a bit thrown together and shaky. My list is the canadian (i think...) version with only 8 guys and the singleton bounce spells. The sb I used was:
2 crypt
2 EE
4 reb
3 trygon predator
2 pyroclasm
2 grip
I'm not sure what to do with it or to keep it the same. Any suggestions?
My sideboard (for tempo-canadian thresh) is quite similar:
3 Pyroblast
3 Hydroblast
2 E.explosives
2 Tormod's crypt
2 Pyroclasm
3 K.grip
I play two predators main and no bouncers (expecting stax, chalice aggro, loam, counterbalance etc)
It feels quite uncomfortable to have e.explosives or crypts as a two-of
but they are rather an 'utility removal' at given match-ups
e.g
Although two cryts may not be enough to combat ichorid, it will proof rather useful when playing against things like loam decks, survival decks (yeah, wait till he gets all utility creatures in the graveyard and then cast crypt and remove that squee/genesis & anger), or mirror match (when you'll want to play it at a given time and having more than one is useless),
As for e.explosives it is a vesatile card that serves many purposes (from tokens to prison decks) so it won't dissapoint you if you are facing an unknown meta. If you are not convinced with it I suggest you play pithing needle instead (improving your landstill match-up considerably).
I abuse hydroblast due to the popularity of burn-aggro decks in my meta (obv!?) and i'm quite confortable with the 3/3 hydro/pyro split.
Mind harness has proven to me to be a good choice many times but it is excesively situational ( meaning that in the wrong meta it is crap)
if you expect painters combo you might want to add a singleton gaeas blessing but i believe we already have a favorable match-up (double plus if you play needles XD!)
I believe that the sideboard is not one of the strongest points of this deck (I don't mean it is bad though!). In 2/3 games you'll substitude mediocre cards for others that will do the job better (blasts,clasm,ee) or you bring in cards to avoid hate (grip,predator, needle)---reactive sideboard. but you won't have any sideboard card that will be 'broken' against a given match-up---active sideboard! (as it hapens in landstill or other threshold variants)
on another subject; I've been looking forward to play moonthreshold (not in the local store meta but at big tourney) and I've seen that these decks often include counterbalance main. How is this?
Can it be supported by only 2 islands? should stifles be played even though you don't play wasteland? Are there any alternatives to countertop?
What does atypical moon thresh list look like? I'm thinking of playing it at a small legacy tourney next tuesday and I've looked for a list and come up with something but I haven't found any real lists yet.
Any help is appreciated.
QFT, I was wondering the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jujuhawk
We should get a thread for UG/x Thresh Variants in one of the three main threads.
It is a pretty typical red thresh except it runs 2x blood moon and 2-3x Fledging Dragon maindeck.Quote:
Originally Posted by yawg07
Then for sideboard it usually runs 4x Magus of the Moon and the other 2 blood moons.
The manabase has 2x island and 1x forest for moon effects.
There are lots of variants of red thresh. It's obv terrible in something like tempo thresh, but spell snare, no snare? Stifle, no stifle? etc.
And Would you recommend canadian thresh or moon thresh for a meta like this:
A Few Loam decks (1 Aggro Loam, 2 or 3 43 land)
Lots of thresh (UGw, UGwb, UGr, etc.)
A few lands till (mostly cunning landstill)
Like 1 solidarity or 2.
A few D-Stompy
A Few Goblins
Random Aggro/Control/AggroControl (Deadguy, rock, etc.)
There's rarely combo, but sometimes 1 or 2 TES or FT variants.
I'm thinking tempo but I really like the moon build I have right now on paper. I'm probably going to test both this weekend. The tourney is next weekend.
I'm sorry for a noob question :
"For Swan-Thresh build, I can understand that Swan + Chain = infinite draw (limited by how many cards on library). .
Also Lightning Storm can do more than lethal damage to a player if you have all entire library on your hand. .
But if I'm not wrong, I assume this combo only works when you have Swan (already in play) + Chain (getting resolve) + 5 lands (3 volcanic required), doesn't it?
Because I've tested Chain+Swan combo deck outside Threshold build and I have SSG / Lotus Petal to cast Lightning Storm without tap lands for mana. .
Just want to make sure this Threshold playing style is different with that one. ."
Thank you. .
As far as I know, you just nail swans at the end of their turn, make sure you leave a card in your deck, and go off on your turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by moOnsteak
arghh, I forget about 'instant speed'. .Quote:
Originally Posted by yawg07
Thank you very much. .
So let's modify the requirement : Swan (already in play) + Chain (getting resolve) + 3 mana (2 Volcanic required)
That's theoretically true, but since having Swans in play means you have four mana anyway, by far the more common procedure is: Swans, untap, Chains, draw your third Volcanic (and fifth land) somewhere along the ride, Lightning Storm for the kill.
I usually only Chain at EOT when I have a second Chain and want to play around spot removal (if they Swords in response, I Chain #2 in response and kill on the next untap).
@moOnsteak.
Please don't play SSG or Lotus Petals, they are - similar to Chrome Mox - carddisadvantage.
Just stick to what yawg07 or Nihil Credo said. Drawing the entire library at EOT also isn't that bad. Even if the bottom card is the Lightning Storm, you can just untap and Lightning Storm your opponent during your upkeep and therefore win before you would lose. The same is possible for triple/quad Lightning Bolt to your opponents head.
Sometimes even the Bolts are enough to kill and there's no need to plow through your deck for the Lightning Storm.
I built a Swan-Thresh deck and went 6-0 at the local shop tourney yesterday! 14 people I do believe ... 13 maybe?
Swiss:
2-0 Against Rbg Goblins
Game one, Tarmogoyf puts him on the defensive, bolt kills Wort, game goes easier from there.
Early on he Warren Weirdings me and I Misdirect it, turning his Lackey into two 1/1 turds.
Tarmogoyf puts him on the defensive, he gets Earwig Squad and finds 1 Pyroclasm in my deck, he laughs because
I have 2 cards in my hand, guess what they were haha. Pretty sure I end up Stifling Matron FTW
2-0 Against ITF
Wild game. I get countertop to stick before him, but I'm having trouble getting the correct numbers. I get Swans down.
I bolt Swans twice, I'm doing great, he manages Shackles through the counter wall. Takes Swans.
I get down Goyf, he gets ANOTHER shackles and takes it, too. He is at 12, 0 hand, I hit him with a Bolt (9) and Lightning Storm pitching 3 lands (0)
Don't remember game two as much, but I got what I needed to stick, countered a deed, gripped a deed, let explosives go, and Goyf was 6/7
2-1 Against Demon Stompy (kuma)
I'm pretty sure I lost game two, but I don't remember that well if it was game one or two, Graveborn and friends came over and beat face.
In the meantime Shriekmaws killed Swans and Goyf haha
Game one or two (haha) was back and forth, but he did a ton of damage to himself and Lightning Bolt sealed it up.
Game three was tempo tempo tempo on my end, kept a hand of Daze, Daze, Goose, Fetch, Goyf, Fetch, Brainstorm
Drew Dazes 3 and 4 within the first few turns, and Goyf and Goose smashed face while I Dazed everything I could.
2-0 Against TES
Game one, my opening hand was, Top, Counterbalance, FoW, Swans, Fetch, Forest, Island ... I kept.
Playing TES for so long, I knew how his plays would go at least, but I also know that turn one Top and turn two Counterbalance completely ruins their day.
It kept him down all game and Swans brought an Ancestral Recall and the win.
Game two, I get to side in my Stifles and Pyroclasms, taking out Swan combo.
My hand goes Daze, Daze, Stifle, Stifle, Fetch, Bolt, Pyroclasm ... I keep.
Turn one he Xantids, I bolt it. Turn two he Shushers, I clasm it. From then on in he loses his Gemstone mine and I find two gooses.
Top4:
2-1 Against a new-age WildfireStax (OneBigSquirrelGod)
Game one I lost. I couldn't counter the Blood Moon and Trinisphere came down, and I had lands!
But he was Wildfire-ing and Burning of Xinye-ing, and ended up killing me with 2x Rolling Earthquake (one at 8 and one at 7)
Game two I countered key spells and kept a Goyf on the table, after Rolling Earthquake killed my previous goose+goyf.
Game three, pretty much the same deal, but I had both of my basics, so moon wasn't really that bad.
Finals:
2-0 Against Rbg Goblins (same from round 1)
Insanely fun games, they lasted forever, but both ended because I was able to make Goyf eat his guys one by one.
Save bolts for Wort/Piledriver, and post-board remove 3x Swan, 3x Chain, 3x Counterbalance for 3x Pyroclasm, 2x Needle, 4x Stifle.
Verdict? I never comboed the whole time. But did I need to? No. Do I like knowing I can? Damn right!
Thresh with a combo finish, one of the most fun decks I've ever played.
Here's my list ...
// Lands
4 Volcanic Island
1 Flooded Strand
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Island
1 Forest
4 Tropical Island
3 Polluted Delta
// Creatures
3 Swans of Bryn Argoll
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nimble Mongoose
// Spells
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
1 Misdirection
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Chain of Plasma
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Lightning Storm
// Sideboard
SB: 4 Stifle
SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Pyroclasm
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
Well done! Congratulations! Ha, you are playing Stifle in the SB! I just exchanged the Hydroblasts for Stifles because they are more versatile and still insane against Goblins.Quote:
Originally Posted by yawg07
No Predicts and no additional cantrips (Portents) look kinda strange to me, but it's still solid. Only the Misdirection seems to be crap, but how was it?
Misdirection was good and bad, I'm pretty sure it will be coming out, but I'm not sure for what just yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adan
I'm not sure it really NEEDS the Portents, I mean, it's already running 4x BS, 4x Ponder, and 3x Top.
When you throw 8 fetches into the mix, it isn't that hard to find what you need.
For me to fit 2x Portent, I'd remove Misdirection and then I'd either have to drop the Daze/Goose/Land count by one and I think thats BAD.
You know one thing I noticed, though? Lightning Storm is an amazing finisher, even without the combo.
You can have 5-9 damage that they know nothing about, and you can protect it, too!
Also, yes I totally agree, Stifle over Hydro for sure. My friend John and I discussed a bit before the tourney and he brought up a few points about Stifle and I agreed, so in they went.
And also, whaddya know, my other friend John steps in with TES. haha perfect :D
Also, yes edit again, ever notice that people take a long time to decide whether or not to send Chain back at you if you use it as removal?
Including 1 Portent as a 5th Ponder is also fine. ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by yawg07
Congratulations on the win! On the list: was the lack of Tormod's Crypts in the sideboard a metagame choice? Loam.dec is easily winnable with the Swans combo, but I'd be scared of Ichorid without them.
Also, if you want to try Portent or Predict over Misdirection, there's no reason not to just play 1x - they don't get any better or worse in multiple.
EDIT: By the way, am I the only one still playing 2 Islands and Moon in the SB?
Yes, right now in our meta, Tormod's Crypt is okay, but at the moment, Ichorid and grave decks have vanished.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil Credo
Also Crypt isn't that useful against TES or anything like that. I know whenever people would board in Crypt when I play TES, I just shrug it off.
You guys make good points. I'd probably play Predict in that slot. I'll try it :D
Actually right now, I may squeeze Island #2 in somewhere. Being able to still do swans combo under a Moon effect is golden.
EDIT: Thanks for all the congrats, I'm really new to control decks, but MAN are they fun.
Yeah, I never played Threshold before, only face them as testing partner or on tournament since I assume they are the most stable and powerful build in the format. But the entering of the swan combo make me excited to play it on the next tourney, even if I have to jump into the training ground in order to improve my skill. .Quote:
Originally Posted by yawg07
Ahh, also congratez for a great finish. .
Which version of Red Thresh is actually better, a more traditional UGr Thresh/Canadian Thresh, or the Swan Thresh builds? I know the traditional builds are meta dependent, but in general, does adding the Swan combo improve the deck, or weaken it?
It seems like adding the combo requires 1 dead card, 3 sub-optimal creatures, and 3 sub-optimal burn spells. Would it be possibly to take out the Lightning Storm and the Chains of Plasma for 4 Chain Lightnings, or Magma Jets, or whatever burn spell should go in that spot? You lose the combo win, but you still get to play with Ancestral Recall and only have 3 sub-optimal creatures instead of 3 more sub-optimal burn spells and a dead card.
Is the combo valuable enough to be worth the dead cards, or would the deck be better with more efficient burn that can be Ancestral Recalled?
It improves the deck. Without the combo, there would be no reason to run UGr Threshold with Counterbalances because UGW can do everything better - in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryTroll
With the combo, it makes sense since you can stall the game with CBalance and slowroll until you have the combo. Since the deck's style is like a mishmash between tempo and control, it's also versatile enough to play hyper-aggressive beatdown (burn for reach) and Counterbalance as a disruption spell rather than a control-element. But this mish-mash could also be the weak spot of the deck, I don't know, but I'm already used to it.
But it's also possible that I'm hallucinating. Well, I just wanted to try to include it into UGr Threshold because the possibility to combo is kinda ridiculous. I also don't want to accept that I've wasted 20 bucks for my asian playset of Swans...
This proves that you have never played it so far. The cards are quite good, even though they don't appear so.Quote:
It seems like adding the combo requires 1 dead card, 3 sub-optimal creatures, and 3 sub-optimal burn spells.
For our decks concept, Magma Jet, Chain Lightning and even Fire//Ice are terrible. What's wrong about Chain of Plasma? It's Chain Lightning with Instant Speed, except that they may copy it by discarding a card instead of paying RR.Quote:
Would it be possibly to take out the Lightning Storm and the Chains of Plasma for 4 Chain Lightnings, or Magma Jets, or whatever burn spell should go in that spot?
And Chain Lightning sucks hard in combonation with Blood Moon which you MIGHT want to play in the SB because of metagame-reasons.
OMG, if the cards were really dead, how come I've burned out my opponents 4 times at Heidelberg tourney? Chain of Plasma is rearely copied and therefore as good as Incinerate (not that this would be relevant, but it's actually Incinerate that enables a instant-win combo).Quote:
Is the combo valuable enough to be worth the dead cards, or would the deck be better with more efficient burn that can be Ancestral Recalled?
Swans are not suboptimal. They are 4/3 Flying for 4 Mana and that's already a quite solid body with evasion.
The reason why I also wanted to include the combo was the following:
In the past, the UGR builds with Counterbalance here always tended to run Sea Drakes because they have the same stats, are pitchable to Force of Will and have more or less hidden synergy with Brainstorm (ninja tech!).
Swans actually fullfill the same role, except that they rather have synergy with all your burnspells rather than with Brainstorm and cost 1 more mana (in exchange, they don't bounce 2 of your lands).
And Lightning Storm is also not really a dead card. Sure, it's mediocre, but it can be hardcasted as well like the other burnspells and also enable the combowin. The only decks against which these cards truly suck are Loam-based decks.
I highly agree.
In both testing AND in practice, the fact that Lightning Storm can deal 5+ damage at Instant speed for 3 mana is quite amazing.
Brainstorm into a couple of lands towards the end of the game? No problem.
Play Lightning Storm and drop those lands on it, game over.
Swans is the best support creature I have seen in a long time for XX/r builds of control.
Ancestral Recall (Lightning Bolt) is just as good in Legacy as it is in Vintage when you're in the middle of a control battle.
If your metagame is infested with control, I really think this is the deck to play.
Plus, sideboarding with this deck is usually REALLY easy, which I have to say, I enjoy very much.
Why vs control? The whiter it is, the worst you are I think.... Humility, wrath, stp... You play swan and pass the turn I think...
Blood moon is good vs landstill? don't you use red elemental blast? :rolleyes:
UGr Thresh is an aggro-control deck amirite? Adding the Swans makes it aggro-control-combo :P
Adan sums up just about everything I wanted to say about Swans in the deck. It gives a strong reason to play UGr over UGw.
Lightning Storm kinda makes lategame Daze like a softcounter+shock. Even without a Chains, Bolt drawing 3 cards is really sick and gives you potential to draw into more burn or gain better card quailty.
My metagame has quite a lot of control/aggro-control variants in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by slyfer
This deck really slams every thing that isn't red.
StP? Umm ... Counter-Top is an easy fix for that.
Wrath and Humility are solved with FoW/Daze game one, and game two you get Krosan Grip/Needle for Humilty/E.Explosives/Deed.
Also, if the deck is too hard/too risky to try and combo against, just side it out!
I don't play moon, but I can see it being very good if you fetch enough basics (i.e. play 2nd Island)
And no, Red Elemental Blast has a strike against it because Pyroblast can be played to get Threshold in a pinch.
What matchups does the Swan combo help you against? Aggro? Board control? Board control with low amounts of instant speed removal?
Anything with lots of creature removal: basically you're OK with them getting rid of Mongeese and Tarmogoyf, while you save your Forces to protect the combo. Also, Chain of Plasma+Lightning Storm beats Fire/Ice here: easier to burn them out if they resolve a Humility or whatnot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Illissius
As for aggro, it can be better or worse depending on the meta: you become worse against burn (you *need* CounterTop, otherwise Swans are Force-fodder unless you are ready to combo, and Chains of Plasma suck when you're the control and they're not Hellbent), but better against fat, since you can just sit your Goyfs back in defence instead of trying to push them through - which may be impossible if you're at low life.
Interestingly, the most drastic improvement is against prison decks: you can completely ignore the combat step yet still win.
It's also very good against Goblins. Instead of having to win, you just have to wait long enough to combo out. That's much easier to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil Credo
You gotta be careful, though, if they nail it with an Incinerator and draw 4+ cards, you will probably lose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mental
Against Goblins I sideboard like this ...
-3 Swan
-3 Chain
-3 Counterbalance
+2 Needle
+4 Stifle
+3 Pyroclasm
And then I just play Thresh like normal. Stifle on Matron/Ringleader is pretty damn powerful.
Even against Rbg Goblins, with their Earwig Squad/Wort, you have excellent games 2/3.
True, but that's almost never a problem as most Goblin builds are playing 1-2 Incinerators these days.
Most run 3 or 4, actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mental
This is also true. I have noticed them being less and less used.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mental
Does Rbg Gobs even play them at all? I didn't notice any at all last tourney I was in.
I play 3 in my RGB build, but most other people play 1, I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by yawg07
This deck cannot beat control with white.
Stp, humility (no out maindeck), and wish for pulse is game over.
Crucible - wasteland is game over.
It has so many weakness that I really think its not viable, the only viable UGr deck is the tempo with wasteland and stifle, because of tempo, so it means "no time for wish/pulse" or goodness.
I'm very disapointed with the results
Jeesh...Quote:
Originally Posted by slyfer
First of all, yes, UWb landstill such as Clemens' build are a bad matchup for the deck.
Humility is a pain in the ass and nearly GG in game 1, but on the other side, there is a little advantage. Sweepers like WoG or EE-softlock buys the Landstill player time, but you can still put him into an defensive position by just resolving Swans. You can simply combo instead of playing straight-foward beatdown, because if you do so, you will most likely scoop to a well-timed WoG.
Why should the tempo variant be better than the Swans-build? Against the modern Landstill lists (i.e. Clemens/DIF), the manadenial-plan is obsolete because he will fetch basiclands. Keeping mana open fro Stifle is also not very smart since it makes you slower as well.
The main reason why red Threshold in general has always got a slight advantage over other variants against Landstill is simple: Burn. The fact that you can make virtual 20 or 24 damage (4 Bolt + Either 3/1 Chain-Storm or 4 Fire//Ice) without ever attacking is important against landstill. This is also supported with the critters. Burn = pressure and under soem cirumstances, it forces the opponent to handle things immediately, which makes Daze much more stronger.
It's obvious that you have to keep the above mentioned card off the table.
That's it for the flame-free part. On the other hand: Do some playtests, learn how to play it properly and THEN you might be able to distinguish which build might be better.
The statements "This deck can't beat control with white" and "Tempobuild is better because of TEMPO" don't express much competence or experience. According to them, everyone who wants to hate Threshold should play Rifter or Wombat again. T3h oldschOol.
Additionally, the above mentioned weaknesses might be true, but they are true for the tempo-variant as well, except that the tempo variant can be knocked out easier by Pulse of the Fields or sweepers while with SwanThresh, you can still combo him.
UWb landstill has also got a high basicland count, making the manadenial-plan obsolete. That's why Counterbalance is the more appropriate disruption piece against LS.
But that's only my theory, if I got time, I might do some testing with Clemens.