The problem is that punishing fire is just the best card to pair with Lilliana. Lingering souls is good, but only with equipment and not as good as punishing fire with feeding the planes walker.
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The problem is that punishing fire is just the best card to pair with Lilliana. Lingering souls is good, but only with equipment and not as good as punishing fire with feeding the planes walker.
I have also been playing around with a entomb/reanimate package with Iona and sheoldred main deck as the 2 bombs.
Anyone else have any new ideas?
Not in the slightest, I fear you misinterpreted. And yeah, that does explain a thing or two.Quote:
Originally Posted by damionblackgear
@Lavafrogg: Cheating creatures into play is always fun and often a quick road to victory if you manage to pull it off. I'd go with Elesh Norn over Sheoldred though. You want to make sure your creature makes an impact as soon as it hits the battlefield. Makes it less horrible when your opponent manages to get rid of it before it gets the chance to do its thing.
I meant Elesh Norn, my bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
Against non interactive decks it would give us an option to fight more proactively. Thoughtsieze into entomb/reanimate against show and tell would be an easy game one.
Like I said, I am trying to be relevant again.
In the spirit of new ideas, and at the risk of being shot down in flames, and I'm not sure this deck belongs in this thread, here's my 'Eva Dead-Rock' variant which I've being playing on Xmage. Very small sample of results to date but currently standing at 22-16 in games and 9-6 in matches. Notable wins against Omni, Reanimator, 4cLoam/Maverick/whatever, BUG Delver, DnT, Stoneblade/Deathblade/whatever, Storm and Merfolk. Notable losses against Omni x2 (different players), RUG Delver x2 and Belcher. No matches against Miracles or Affinity yet.
There are multiple lines of attack: i) reanimate their fattie after TS/Therapy or mine after discarding to Prowler/TS/Therapy, ii) Prowler is a surprisingly nimble beat stick, iii) Lingering Souls is good enough to go up to 3 in the main, iv) Abysssal Persecutor is good for a few 'wtf?" moments when they see it, v) the usual suspects (Bob, Goyf, DRS and Scooze) do their stuff as per usual and due to their high profile they usually get killed on sight which allows Prowler, Souls and Abby to do their stuff under the radar.
No Liliana. Yes, I know, crazy. I think the deck is too aggro for Lilly and I've found that opponents have to discard to Prowler to stay alive, so the Prowler has more value in an aggro deck. But that's up for debate.
In the early game, if they have creatures, kill 'em all. Then hit with quick evasive damage, averaging 3-6 points per attack. If they are light on creatures then move straight to combat asap.
It's a bit weak against Combo game 1, so I'm experimenting with appropriate SB hate to match up in Games 2 and 3.
Take it away boys and girls...
//22 Lands
2 Bayou
1 Forest
3 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
2 Savannah
3 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
//22 Spells
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Lingering Souls
3 Reanimate
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
4 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Vindicate
//16 Creatures
2 Abyssal Persecutor
3 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Oona's Prowler
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Tarmogoyf
//Sideboard
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Krosan Grip
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Golgari Charm
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Leyline of the Void
2 Choke
1 Zealous Persecution
Why persecutor?
I would think something with more splash value like Sigarda would be good at the top end of the curve. Also, hymn seems better than cabal therapy in this list as you only really want to sacrifice souls and persecutors.
Oona's Prower is seeing play in modern right now, it is a shame GB madness isn't a real deck in legacy.
I was looking at :
13 creatures
1 Iona
1 Elesh Norn
4 deathrite shaman
4 dark confidant
1 gaddock teeg
1 scavenging ooze
25 spells
4 green suns zenith
4 reanimate
4 entomb
4 thoughtseize
4 hymn to tourach
3 liliana
1 unburial rites
1 life from the loam
1 ravens crime
22 land
I hadn't considered Sigarda. Food for thought. On reflection, Abby's cmc is only 4 (reanimate and Bob!), it's +1/+1 and finding BB to hard cast isn't normally a problem. Sigarda has advantages but, even one turn later, I'm not sure I could do GWW anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
Re the hymn/therapy suggestion: with Therapy, Vindicate, ToxicD and StP, I have 8 possible kills for Abby. Reducing down to 5 might be a bit greedy?
Unburial Rites is interesting. Chalice on 1 has slowed me down a couple of times. Gets around counter/top. Hmmm.... more food for thought.
Thanks for the feedback!
I was like "hell yeah!" Until I saw the set of gsz and targets. Its a slower route, one at odds with your reanimate for cheap/fast beats. I think it would be awesome to abuse prowler more, possibly with Vengevine and/or bloodghast. It puts a lot of stock in your graveyard, bt that's ok. Regardless I think the grindy gsz plan is clunky when you could go for more disruption into a fatty. I would begin by putting 4-6 library manipulators into the deck. Sdt and library are the two most likely candidates but cycle lands into loam is another (slower) route. Wasteland isn't listed, but it should be a given with loam.Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
The other thing on my mind is that its a great start to using Gifts Ungiven. The gifts> fatty> rites combo is classic modern tech. The singleton loam and crime also hints at gifts piles.
The GSZ might be clunky but it offers a lot of interaction in many match ups. The goal I have in mind is to be a rock type deck with a reanimate/combo kill. The pros are that you can interact with combo on turn 2 as reanimate/entomb are so cheap and can be fired off whenever we think they will resolve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
More disruption will help to ensure it resolves as quickly as possible, important against combo and counterbalance. I'm not saying it can't be good I'm just saying that more disruption (especially abrupt decay) would game further towards supporting your goal than gsz. Your only real good target for those matchups is teeg. Miracles can easily deal with him (because you aren't pressuring their hand as much) and storm will just go for it game one to avoid thoughtseize/hymn and g2 will board in pyroclasm and go for the pif route. You are strengthening your fair matchups while conceding a bit more to miracles and a small extent combo. Obviously these are my opinions ajd welcome dialogue.Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
So I ran Junk back at the side events at GP Lille after I was crushed 2-3 then dropped in the main event of GP Lille when I was playing Punishing Jund. Getting 0-2'd by LED Dredge and MUD nut draws in the first two rounds is always fun when you fly across the ocean to play Magic.
This is the list I ran (surprise, surprise):
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Sylvan Library
3 Equipment
3 Lingering Souls
1 GSZ
1 Garruk Relentless
3 STP
4 Decay
22 lands
2 Zealous
2 Teeg
2 Canonist
2 Grip
2 Choke
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
And the usual stuff. I lost to Infect because in Game 1 I made a play mistake, and game 2 he had the nut draw and I was on shaky mana. I also lost to...Sneak and Show in the first round of the side event. Nice deck, bro. Had all deez for Omni, but not for you. Leyline is a concession to Dig Through Time and the random graveyard decks that show up in tournament side events like these.
UseL was at the event and did a bit better than I did in the main and side events. I really like Lingering Souls against Miracles, but it may need some work. We could easily see that the break out deck of the tournament was the main stream knowledge of Niklas' 4C Loam deck, which I really like. Chalice is really good, and Knight with Chalice is excellent. The problem? That deck is absolutely nutted by Abrupt Decay. The solution? The meta is hostile for Decay decks. So, the question is, do we want to bring Knight back? People argue yes, but without Decay to protect him, I'd rather have something else, in my opinion.
-Matt
I feel. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
No byes?
Unforts no.
I didn't grind too well for them.
-Matt
Somewhat off-topic, but a funny story: We fantasy drafted people for the GP, and one guy in our car was about to pick sdematt. I was like "isn't he from Canada..?", but he said you'd be there. He ended up drafting someone else. However, in round-1 of the very first trial on Friday he gets paired up against.. Matt. Funny coïncidence :p
This is probably the most random and entertaining story of the entire GP :laugh:
Right in the feels....damn that sucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
She's my girl. All day and all knight (see what I did there?). Seriously though, Niklas showed me an almost identical deck at GP NJ (he was running DD/Stage at the trial he gave me the win at). I was blown away how solid it looked. I'm surprised he didn't top 8 that treasure cruise meta. Anywho, at Lille that deck was absolutely primed to ruin people's days. It's a perfect concoction to feast on what's hot. The concern I have for 4C aggro loam is the lack of beaters. There's limited room to do damage beyond KotR and p.fires combo.Quote:
UseL was at the event and did a bit better than I did in the main and side events. I really like Lingering Souls against Miracles, but it may need some work. We could easily see that the break out deck of the tournament was the main stream knowledge of Niklas' 4C Loam deck, which I really like. Chalice is really good, and Knight with Chalice is excellent. The problem? That deck is absolutely nutted by Abrupt Decay. The solution? The meta is hostile for Decay decks. So, the question is, do we want to bring Knight back? People argue yes, but without Decay to protect him, I'd rather have something else, in my opinion.
-Matt
For Rock, I can't help but think a similar configuration could be built. Most of the 4C loam deck is built off the Junk-Rock platform anyway. You would have to be comfortable trading DRS and 1cc spells for Zenith, Chalice, and Mox D. The take-away is how strong Loam is for the meta. Between P.Fires, cycle lands, and KotR I can't help but think there's a heavier Junk spin people can play with.
@lavafrogg: That list needs work but I think you're onto something with a reanimate spin. I don't like the lack of library manipulation, as running into a fatty with Confidant is problematic. Your deck also relies upon landing the fatty with no alternative gameplan. There has to be a solution so that *at worst* you can just try to beat face with goyf or knight.
I am really into theQuote:
Originally Posted by Warden
4 confidant
4 GSZ
1 Coursair
4 Top
Engine right now.
I think it is strong enough to make waves in the format I am just trying to figure out how...
I played 4 GSZ, 1 Courser, 2 Top, 8 fetch at my last legacy event in dark maverick and felt it was fantastic. I could see myself running confidants for a more junk-ish build. You get so much momentum between all those cards, it's insane. I agree that's kinda the engine I want to build/abuse. We'll see where Monday leaves the format.Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
Hopefully g'bai to DTT, but we'll see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warden
-Matt
4 Dark ConfidantQuote:
Originally Posted by Warden
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 top
3 Green Suns Zenith
3 Lilliana of the Veil
1 batterskull
1 umezawas jitte
4 thought seize
3 Lingering Souls
4 swords to plowshares
3 abrupt decay
21 land
Current junk list. Super removal heavy with more discard in the board. Game one against combo I have teeg/seize/Liliana to hold down the fort.