I don't think a heavy walker list like that is ideal for GSZ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
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I don't think a heavy walker list like that is ideal for GSZ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
Why not? it still finds vet, smooths out your curve, provides board control and threats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
If you're primarily using it for mana, you would be better off either adding more DRS or adding more lands. There's not enough higher up the curve to tutor for either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
Also, note that you're wanting to play Kaya here, but to fit in the PW's you've basically cut everything you're hoping to blink. Wouldn't Restoration Angel just be better? It's a faster blink, hits the opponent harder, blocks better, and has flash.
That new PW might just be the Danger Of Cool Stuff.
@the new guy running a 13 mana card in a deck that only has 11 lands that can produce mana and no DRS to further accelerate - Why..? Even with 6 different card types in your GY, it still costs 7. That's beyond Consecrated Sphinx mana.
If all I wanted was the blink then of course I'd play resto instead. Kaya isn't about the blinkage, kaya is all about the -2. However, her 0 still works nicely with ewit and tusk in a pinch. Also you don't need an extensive gsun package for it to be good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
I'm not saying this will be good ha, I'm saying I'm going to try her. A Planeswalker who's power level might stand on her own isn't danger of cool things though. I think her character, intro story and -1 are decidedly uncool.
I'll try her in this shell and then another where she is the only Planeswalker.
Maybe I'm just down on PW's in general. A couple months back I gave them a real shot and I just wasn't impressed. I always felt like I didn't have enough of a board presence, and that was with a bunch of combat walkers. I think PW's can be good in Nic Fit but I think they need to fill support roles. Card advantage might be good enough, but I think supporting creatures is best. It just feels to me like you spend 4 mana on Kaya and she can't actually impact the board.
As far as GSZ goes, it may not need to be extensive but I think you do need a good range of CMC's to hit. Like I've mentioned before, when I use GSZ, I fire it off very aggressively in the early turns for either 0 or 1 to augment my mana because it gives a similar effect to if we're running 26 lands, which is where I think we want to be (if not even higher than that). The advantage to GSZ is that if you draw it later once you're past the early turns, you can cash it in at any CMC to use your mana and build your board. With just 1 3, 1 4, and 1 5 to hit I don't think you have the necessary range.
Same here. Dare to be brave. Spending your GSZs early to get a Veteran Explorer is a good thing to do.
Concerning Planeswalkers - one criterium I have to include them is that they have to be able to take over the game from an empty board with their +'s. That's why I like Big Sorin so much - his + draws you cards and kills your opponent, his first - kills creatures (and yes, PWs) and gains you life and his ultimate just screams murder.
I would actually say that 50% of my early GSZ's are spent on Dryad Arbors because I like having 3 mana on turn 2. The exception to this is if I have a Therapy but no Explorer. If I don't go Arbor, perhaps because I fear Wasteland, I go DRS unless I have a way to kill the Explorer. Explorer is good for forcing board stalls, but if it doesn't die I find my hand stalls out too often which is much worse than losing on board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
I feel like I'm in the twilight zone right now.
She can impact the board. And I had the setup for gsun of which you spoke. 5-7 0-1 drops for aggressive mana access and then the most relevant card for the deck at 3, 4 and 5 up the curve for when you have the mana. If your fear is me drawing one of the creatures and a gsun or something, I wouldnt worry.
And again, I'm merely mentioning where I'm going to test her (Planeswalker build and support role replacing painful truths like effects), I'm not advocating for her inclusion. Feel free not to test her, but I see her filling a glaring hole in our planeswalkers suite, and I anticipate that WotC wanted the card to be good, which mean she's worth a try in my books.
After played two torment with P. Fire Jund with Titania, Protector of Argoth I found a issue.
There are no lands in my graveyard when I play Titania. Becasue P.Fire Jund plays with Grove we can't have that many featch lands.
So I am going to try her out on a Junk Nic-Fit that have more fetchlands.
Kaya, Ghost Assassin
+0 -- Blink random value critter you control. Trigger to re-enter battlefield, enemy Stifle. One trigger so both stay exiled, game over. That's really about all one needs to know about this card.
NicFit is interesting in that it has a lot of combo-oriented (non-engine) cards being used for value, and there's one in particular you aren't discussing: Liliana, the Last Hope.
+1 -- Combat math implications, possibly removal. Decent way to murder your own Explorer if it comes to that.
-2 -- Favorable interaction with SDT/Sylvan. Yard recursion of creatures.
Ult -- you don't care as much about this, but technically a wincon that doesn't care if yard hate is in play.
Honestly, it probably should straight-up replace Recurring Nightmare. There are subtle differences in what these cards are susceptible to, but shifting zone diversity away from the graveyard (which Nightmare doubles down on) should drive NicFit towards effects like this new Lilly. A lot of people see the name Liliana and the same cmc as LotV, and they think they're supposed to be directly compared as if they'd ever be used by the same type of deck.
I like her as a supporting role. Blinking your own creatures won't come up with her that often. Most of the time you will use her to remove a blocker/attacker of your opponent, or you -2 her two times and then blink herself. And yes it can be stifled, but stifle is one of the first cards we remove with therapy anyway, since its also good against explorer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Edit: And what did you mean with "both stay exiled"?
Have any Nic Fit lists atttempted to run Wasteland? I only really like Titania if she can recur Wastelands, she gets boncurs in that case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganfar
I mean, if you -really- want to screw over decks that don't run basics, lol.
Lol, against stifle delver you're sideboarding your card draw out for more interaction anyway. I think you need to reread her 0 ability Fox, and against delver you'll be using the 0 on their creatures more often than Kaya her self anyway to give yourself some reprieve, they can stifle that trigger all they like :)
Ah slight misread, thought it said exile Kaya *and* up to 1 creature. So you'd only lose one to Stifle vs the second trigger "Return that card to the battlefield under it's owner's control at the beginning of your next upkeep." The implications of that second trigger make this a card I don't think you'd want to ever maindeck until you're sure Stifle isn't a thing in a given best of three. This is a heavy investment in a walker that comes down, presumably puts the -2 on the stack sitting at Bolt range; maybe the card works, but the lackluster -1 is the only part of this card that isn't situationally dangerous. There are better cards out there to time walk and unflip a Delver.Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetios
Ah that explains it. As I said, I don't think Stifle is such a huge Problem here, because Stifle is one of the first things to name with Therapy and I would only start blinking my own Creatures when I'm already ahead. I'll test her some more in my SfM-List.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Nic-fit want all the lands to play the 4-5 drops that are better then 1-2 drops. Nic-fit need the mana so no wasteland.Quote:
Originally Posted by square_two
I have seen a Maverick player played Titania with wasteland, better in that deck.
Didn't pay attention to mtg for two month or so. any interesting new cards for nicfit abzan? thanks in advance!
I updated my list quite a bit and took it to Wednesday LegDay at my local LGS. We had a pretty small turn out, so there were only 3 rounds. I played against Esper Deathblade, Miracles, and Sultai Lands.
My List:
Creatures 16
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Quasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
2 Seige Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
Planeswalkers 2
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
Equipment 2
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
Other 18
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Path to Exile
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Vindicate
3 Pernicious Deed
Manabase 21
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
Sideboard 15
2 Dryad Militant
1 Containment Priest
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Glissa, the Traitor
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Pithing Needle
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Nahiri, the Lithomancer
Round 1 Deathblade
Game 1 was a marathon event taking the majority of the round. He was using Academy Ruins to recur equipment that I destroyed and I was recurring Quasali Pridemage and Eternal Witness with Meren and an active Jitte. I stole the game after a misplay on his part with Jitte usage. He could have stopped my jitte from getting counters and killed my creature in combat but missed the line.
Game 2 I couldn't entice him to kill my explorer and help me out of my mana screw. I landed a deed and before i could pop it for 3, he killed me on t3 of extra turns with True-name Nemesis equipped with SoFI.
Round 2 Miracles
I'm bad at sequencing and sideboarding. If you know that you opponent is on STP, hold your vets until you can sac them without your opponent getting priority... situation: cast cabal therapy from hand, opponent swords the vet... yeah, i should know better.
I won game 1 (don't recall the specifics)
Game 2 was close but he locked me with Rest in Peace and Blood Mooned me out of black mana to cast my deed. I was one turn away from veteran explorer beating down with SoFI when he cast Mentor and triggered a monk with ponder (empty hand with ponder on stack). He then did the fancy 2 TOP combo to knock me out of the game.
Game 3 I didn't put the surgicals back in my SB after game 2 or bring my Pridemage back in. I knew that he was on RIP but... it was a long day or whatever. We practically repeat game 2 but his rip hits on turn2 and of course i see both of my surgicals before hanging my head in prowess beatdown defeat.
Round 3 Lands
Game 1
explorer attacked twice; therapy naming crop rot or jace? (i don't recall); he has 3-4 not 'reuglar' lands (fetches duals basics), intuition and decay. I flash it back (giving him 2 untapped mana and take the intuition. then i cast Elspeth Knight Errant and ride her to a quick victory.
Game 2
I see 2 needles and a surgical early in the game but few basics. He spends a bit of time hitting me with wastelands and keeping me down while i have pithing needle on thespian stage. He gets me in a Venser + Karakas lock with a Liliana and JTMS in play. We go back and forth until he intuitions for Stage, Dark Depths, and Loam on turn 0. He bounces my needle, makes a stage lage, and kills me on T4 of extra turns.
So, you just missed Eldritch Moon, right? The only cards from it that I remember Nic Fit players looking at were Eldritch Evolution and Grim Flayer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadadot