Julian did you actually post the correct list because the one that is posted/discussed on mtggoldfish is much different than the one you posted a screenshot of. If mtggoldfish is correct could you give some insight on the Abrupt Decays in the main?
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Julian did you actually post the correct list because the one that is posted/discussed on mtggoldfish is much different than the one you posted a screenshot of. If mtggoldfish is correct could you give some insight on the Abrupt Decays in the main?
Mainboard abrupt decay is really good against lightning rift I think, and that probably warrants an inclusion, because how else do you beat lightning rift?
I might have actually posted the wrong list, haha. Right now I've got like 4 different ones I regularly switch up and I wasn't even sure which one I played in the event. Of course MTGO also doesn't retroactively check these things #Top5Esports.
Generally speaking, I think of Elves as 4 different configurations of similar merit:
With NO, No Decay Maindeck (Traditional Elves)
With NO, Decay Maindeck
No NO, No Decay (Chaos Elves)
No NO, Decay Maindeck
I really LOVE having Decay in the main. The greatest thing about it is how much more sideboard slots it gives you.
So, I posted a few weeks ago about the Crop Rotation package I've been testing. As of right now, my list is a traditional 3 NO list, with Wren's Run Packmaster in a flex spot, 2 Cavern of Souls. I've tested both rotation as a 61st card, instead of a land, and instead of the 4th Quirion Ranger. Moving forward, I'm not 100% sure about the correct cut but don't agree with cutting the 20th land, as it gave me some pretty clunky opening hands. I have been running an additional rotation in the board, and a bojuka bog, wasteland, and Karakas as targets, as well as 4 cradles. Here's my matchup data over ~300 games, as well as notes on the effectiveness of the crop rotation package in this matchup.
Eldrazi- 0% change (I side out rotation)
Delver, all variants- -5% change (I side out rotation)
Miracles- +5% (I side out rotation- I do not believe rotation positively impacts the matchup, although being able to fetch a cavern is nice, the 2 for 1 potential is real. I think the increase is based on playing weaker miracles players)
Shardless- -10% (not surprising- games 2 & 3 we get grindier. I side out rotation- I hit a string of very poor variance and my GWP is still about 50%)
Reanimator- +15% bojuka bog and Karakas have been excellent. Some of the increase represents that BR reanimator is more popular and it's a slightly easier matchup)
Sneak and show- +20% Karakas has been very, very good in this matchup and rotation forces them to play more conservative.
Lands- +10%, wasteland and bog have been very strong in these matchups as well. Typically I try to sandbag rotation until it wins the game by hitting a tabernacle/chasm/ their combo
ANT +5%- the two rotations help, as it lets me goldfish a little faster and extend early combo chains
Of other note- it's been helpful vs GB hexdepths, which I've seen make a decent uptick. It's not a great package if you expect a lot of delver, as it aligns fairly poorly against soft countermagic, and as the bojuka bog has replaced a surgical in my board, I do have to hope that we don't lose to reanimator/t1 combo decks before we can play a land. I do think that the crop rotation package has significantly improved some of our bad matchups (sneak and show/reanimator) enough to make up for the space it takes up in my sideboard, but I'll keep everyone updated as I continue to test.
To those of you having success with Nissa, Vital Force: when are you sideboarding her in besides Miracles? I'm considering a pair in an otherwise very streamlined 3x NO build, but want to know that she has applications in matchups other than Miracles.
Do you find the effectiveness increases more in postboard games or preboard games? Wondering how viable it would be for the package to come out of the side entirely. Seems clunky to main wasteland, karakas, and Bog in a deck running so few functional lands to start with. What cards were cut from the main to support the lands? Or am I misunderstanding and just the crop is in the main with all the lands in the side?Quote:
Originally Posted by abombdiggity
1 Rotation main, 1 side. The 3 lands are in the sideboard. It's way too clunky to run any of these in the maindeck- sorry if I wasn't clear about that. I typically do not side out lands- if I bring in wasteland, bog, or Karakas, they're replacing spells. For reference, my 75 right now (well, 76 until I hammer down a cut):Quote:
Originally Posted by TGCRequiem
Counts : 61 main / 15 sideboard
Creatures:31
2 Dryad Arbor
2 Birchlore Rangers
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Wren's Run Packmaster
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
Spells:12
1 Crop Rotation
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order
Lands:18
2 Bayou
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
4 Gaea's Cradle
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard:15
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Crop Rotation
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Null Rod
1 Nissa, Vital Force/jitte depending on meta
1 Karakas
1 Wasteland
1 Bojuka Bog
It's both equal parts Modern and Legacy, but I figured some of you might be interested in this:
How I accidentally Top8'ed Germany's largest event of '16
Took the list I posted above to a win-a-dual, came home with a bayou for my efforts. Small tournament, ~30 people due to a particularly nasty snowstorm.
R1- W- RW Painter 2-0
R2- D- 4c Stoneblade 1-1
R3-L-Eldrazi 0-2
R4-W- Sneak & Show 2-0
R5-W- Lands 2-1
Top 8
Soldier Stompy- W, 2-1
Sneak & Show- L, 1-2
How did the crop rotation package help/hinder your play on the tourney? Also, good job, congrats!!Quote:
Originally Posted by abombdiggity
Made top 8 in an 18-man tourney in Manila
0-2 infect
0-2 burn (mull to 5 both games)
2-0 ur delver
2-0 pox. Very grindy games.
2-0 dnt
Top 8 0-2 br reanimator. Double turn 1 reanimate, not a lot Elves can do about that, really.
I played 61 cards, with 2 Decay, and 1 Nissa main. I didn't draw them on non-combo turns, so I can't tell if they're good.
I also played around with the idea of Decay in the Main and liked it a lot mostly for CB, Delver, Chalice. Decay is the most sided in card so preboarding 2 makes sense I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
But I just recently started to test the Chaos version without NO and I really enjoyed playing with the elf lords. Mostly due to less clunky draws - drawing an Ezuri and a Packmaster is so much better than drawing 2 Natural Order. And cutting 1 Beast and 1 Arbor adds to that effect. The tradeoff of losing "top deck wins" without passing the turn is of course real, but since NO is the most sided out card I think it also makes sense to investigate that option further.
What I also liked a lot compared to the GP top 8 version with Nissa is that I play with 4 Nettle, 3 Heritage and 3 Birchlore in my chaos build which significantly strengthens mana production (especially after being disrupted) and Glimpse in general.
I am also more or less sold on the Leovold MD. Turn 2-3 Leovold won me a a couple of G1 vs. Storm and he often had a significant impact. Karakas in long miracle games is annoying but at least you get to draw a card if they use it. :)
Tweaking my chaos build atm and i am inclined to cut Ezuri as I never really used him. Shaman of the Pack and Craterhoof provide the instant win in Glimpse combo and Packmaster is the GSZ Target of choice for "fair" wins.
Any thoughts/experience with Chaos and the usage of these lords would be helpful.
It was very good. G1 R1 it let me Crop Rotation for a Cradle and NO for lethal on turn two. In my first matchup vs Sneak, I bounced his early emrakul, which bought me enough time to get there, and against lands Karakas and wasteland both broke up the combo and left me ahead on board- I naturally drew bojuka bog game 2, and cut off his loam engine. Rotation was one of the six dead one drops in my hand when I lost to eldrazi's t1 chalice-t2 tks-t3 smasher. It let me swing for 19 on t2 of my first game against Sneak, shutting off his fetches, and I had Karakas available g3, although both games he put in an omniscience and I never got to untap & swing for the win. Against soldier stompy, rotation let me EOT snag a Cradle so I could get the mana a turn earlier through a 3 drop thailia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prdgychild
Overall the package was very positive for me this tournament, especially vs lands and the sneak & show player who wasn't running omniscience.
What's your list?Quote:
Originally Posted by catmint
Maybe Imperious Perfect as a grindy twiddle card?
I don't yet have a fixed list. I test different versions. The one I was talking about above:
3 Heritage Druid
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Gaea's Cradle
3 Birchlore Rangers
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
2 Bayou
2 Forest
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Wirewood Symbiote
3 Quirion Ranger
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Wren's Run Packmaster
1 Tropical Island
1 Shaman of the Pack
4 Glimpse of Nature
2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 2 Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Nissa, Vital Force
SB: 1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
By popular demand: Legacy Challenge Videos - Top8 with Elves
Thanks Julian for the content; it's always enjoyable to have some insight on how other elf players sideboard especially someone as proficient with the deck as yourself. The feel bads for the Miracles MU were understandable, not only did he draw very well but I can see how tilting it is to be a higher seed but be on the draw. Gl in the next Challenge
Also found it very helpful and entertaining.
The commentary Julian vs. the in game Julian ... who has the better play :laugh:
Kudos to the background music in the last game. :)
Videos were great. I think the biggest thing I confirmed by watching is you just don't mulligan :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
In all honesty though good to hear the analysis of why you kept a lot of hands, and why certain plays in certain matchups may be a show of weakness. I also liked getting a peak at your sideboard despite it being somewhat of a different list from your more recent lists.
I've just picked up the deck again and have been playing Chaos Elves online a lot (Trying out the maindeck decay and jitte version). I've gotten bodied by BUG Aluren to the tune of 0-4 vs them so far. Anyone have tips on ways to play vs them, whats good to board, etc? This is the one matchup that I've been wishing I had a win button in NO. Leovold in particular has been wrecking me but keeping in decays feels so bad