[Deck] Goblins

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sandro95

Hi everyone, tournament report for GPT Paris. I played with the following list

4 Aether Vial
4 Golblin Lackey
1 Skirk Prospector
2 Goblin Piledriver
3 Mogg War Marshall
2 Goblin Warchief
3 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang Commander

1 Tarfire
1 Warren Weirding
4 Gempalm Incinerator

4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Badlands
4 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire

Sideboard
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Perish
1 Boartusk Liege
1 Shattering Spree
1 Engineered Plague

R1 RW Goblins (slightly budget)
I won 2-1. My opponent managed to win g2 with a fast lackey start and a sharpshooter, not much going on this match.
(1-0)

R2 Infect.
Chalice of the Void and Pyrokinesis do a lot of work.
(2-0)

R3 A friend playing Miracles
G1 I lose to an early entreat.
G2 Entreat + Batterskull wins him the game.
(2-1)

R4 BUG Delver
G1 takes almost half an hour. My opponent gets a Tombstalker into play and I gempalm it. Later my opponent has a second Tombstalker, a Delver and a Goyf. I hace Warchief, + Skirk Prospector and some more goblins. I play SGC and he is forced to block a bunch. We trade, and I don't have enough goblins to finish him off, so instead I sacrifice my board to kill his Tombstalker ( I was att >6). I topdeck better and win.
We play fast G2 and G3 and he manages to win both.
(2-2)

R5 Esper Stoneblade
G1 He plays Tundra and I waste. He then plays Swamp and I play lackey and it connects.
I win G2 with a grindy game with vials, matron, ringleader, shattering spree, tuktuk scrapper, and a Warren Weirding for his TNN, Batterskull and Jitte.

Top 8
I'm paired against my friend playing miracles and scoop since he is definitely going to GP Paris.

Overall I felt very happy about the deck. All the cards performed fairly well, and I'm not sure if I'd change anything about the list. Also the metagame was pretty fair (1 guy playing storm and 1 guy infect). I'll be back with a new tournament report after the next GPT this saturday. :)

---

Acctualy my deck is quite much budget, especially the sideboard and manabase, still did 2-3 for my first legacy event, (Also one scoop to some one with not a job that demands they stay in Sweden during February), I might too return with a list and report.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by virre

Acctualy my deck is quite much budget, especially the sideboard and manabase, still did 2-3 for my first legacy event, (Also one scoop to some one with not a job that demands they stay in Sweden during February), I might too return with a list and report.

---

Sweet, I'm looking forward to it!

Just spoiled Spirit of the labyrinth, another card that could have easily been red. In fact its effect hates mostly on blue, so it looks more reddish. I'm not complaining it is not a goblin, but i'm a bit tired that red cards in magic can only do damage.

Anyway the spirit will have no effect against our deck, except for blanking gempalm incinerator draw, so i would be happy if death and taxes/maverick ran spirit main deck .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LeoCop 90

Just spoiled Spirit of the labyrinth, another card that could have easily been red. In fact its effect hates mostly on blue, so it looks more reddish. I'm not complaining it is not a goblin, but i'm a bit tired that red cards in magic can only do damage.

Anyway the spirit will have no effect against our deck, except for blanking gempalm incinerator draw, so i would be happy if death and taxes/maverick ran spirit main deck .

---

Yeah unfortunately no goblins in theros block for us. Still – bearing in mind that this is enchantment I may try my old idea of playin Enlightened Tutor package in Sideboard along with Canonist, Chalice of the Void, Relic of Progenitus, Pithing Needle etc.

@lecop: if you use Gempalm on their turn, then SotL hardly matter.
If it was a goblin we might run it as a hoser. As a red card, guess i'd still prefer Thalia/Canonist.

@purphoros: Im getting 3 to draw my conclusions. Im blindly testing 2 Waste, 2 Tomb, 4 Caverns, 12 Mountais, 2 Mox. Anyone has a better manabase for it?

@Mox on traditional builds: comon guys. It can be done and it is good. Do some research and play some tourbaments with it. Really tired of answering those again.

I am happy for Spirit of the labyrinth. It seems very powerful, maybe even better than thalia. It gives creatures decks a good chance against combo. Packing thalia + Spirit of the labyrinth protected by mother of runes will give D&T and maverick additional tools to fight combo decks. If combo gets weaker we will get stronger so I hope goblins will breath a bit of fresh air again.

I am upset that all decent creatures in the last X-years have to be non-red. White creatures got huge upgrades recently, it is time to see something in red.

For the ones playing white for thalia it is time to test Spirit of the labyrinth

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ScatmanX

@lecop: if you use Gempalm on their turn, then SotL hardly matter.
If it was a goblin we might run it as a hoser. As a red card, guess i'd still prefer Thalia/Canonist.

@purphoros: Im getting 3 to draw my conclusions. Im blindly testing 2 Waste, 2 Tomb, 4 Caverns, 12 Mountais, 2 Mox. Anyone has a better manabase for it?

@Mox on traditional builds: comon guys. It can be done and it is good. Do some research and play some tourbaments with it. Really tired of answering those again.

---

i will be playtesting the mox's this weekend. thanks

Spirit of the Labyrinth -
Here's what I like about it:
1) It's a better beater than Thalia (3/1)
2) Whereas Thalia hosed Storm decks, Spirit hoses Brainstorm decks. Most Storm decks are also Brainstorm decks, so Spirit is more powerful.
3) While Thalia was great G1 against Storm, she was underwhelming G1 against Ux Delver/stoneblade decks. Spirit has much more value in the format.
4) Activate Vial @2 in response to Brainstorm. 3:0 your opponent.

Squee, Goblin Nabob -
Squee was recently featured in a Jund combo deck with 4 Lilliana. Do any of you think Squee is worth a sideboard slot to combat the most popular plainswalker in the format?
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=62686

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jrw1985

Spirit of the Labyrinth -
Here's what I like about it:
1) It's a better beater than Thalia (3/1)
2) Whereas Thalia hosed Storm decks, Spirit hoses Brainstorm decks. Most Storm decks are also Brainstorm decks, so Spirit is more powerful.
3) While Thalia was great G1 against Storm, she was underwhelming G1 against Ux Delver/stoneblade decks. Spirit has much more value in the format.
4) Activate Vial @2 in response to Brainstorm. 3:0 your opponent.

Squee, Goblin Nabob -
Squee was recently featured in a Jund combo deck with 4 Lilliana. Do any of you think Squee is worth a sideboard slot to combat the most popular plainswalker in the format?
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=62686

---

Spirit of the Labyrinth

Agree on all 4 points of yours. I recently stopped playing Thalia MD because it was just... meh... in most of the matchups. But this spirit looks like it could work as a 3-of in MD. I'm very curious about his price.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jrw1985

Spirit of the Labyrinth -
2) Whereas Thalia hosed Storm decks, Spirit hoses Brainstorm decks. Most Storm decks are also Brainstorm decks, so Spirit is more powerful.

---

I disagree here. I can hardly imagine that stormcombo decks are "hosed" by this card. I disagree that it is very good against Brainstorm and I am also aware of the fact that stormcombodecks play a lot of cantrips, but that does not keep them from actually going off. It does mess with their setupphase, but by the time you have played the Spirit (or any other hatecard with cmc>1 for that matter) they have already done a lot (and probably enough) to set the combo up.

Quote:

---

Squee, Goblin Nabob -
Squee was recently featured in a Jund combo deck with 4 Lilliana. Do any of you think Squee is worth a sideboard slot to combat the most popular plainswalker in the format?
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=62686

---

Nope. Guerrilla Tactics would deal with her immediately (can also be used to burn Bob and DRS), but that'S not even a card I would consider. Squee might randomly balance the effect of Liliana, but I cant see myself using a Matron trigger to tutor him up...not when there are still Ringleaders in my deck.

Different topic:

As some of you might know I have being brewing and playing a Rb WInstigator list recently. There were 3 conclusions that I repeatedly drew after each tournament, namely:

(1) The Most Valuable Players of the deck are Goblin Chieftain and Goblin Ringleader.
(2) I am not really happy with Krenko Mob Boss
(3) I am not 100% sure if Earwig Squad is the best choice for those SB slots.

Here is the list for reference.

MANA (22)
3 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Auntie’s Hovel
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Badlands
2 Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
3 Chrome Mox

CORE (23)
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
3 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader

OTHERS (15)
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Chieftain
1 Tarfire
2 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Stingscourger
1 Warren Weiridng
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Krenko, Mob Boss

Sideboard (15)
1 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Earwig Squad
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
3 Perish

Those 3 facts got me thinking about replacing Krenko with one of the following:
Phyrexian Metamorph
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

Both cards effetively give me more copies of the cards that I like so much about the deck: Rrngleader and Chieftain (and others of course). Here are what I think the most relevant PROs and CONs.

Metamorph:
+ costs 3 mana to play and 4 to bring in with Vial
+ can copy opponent's permanents, the most relevant of which are: True Name Nemesis, Sword of Fire and Ice, Tarmogoyf, Insectile Aberration, Griselbrand and Emrakul
+ no issues with Cavern of Souls or Wasteland
- is not a Goblin card, which means that he doesn't interact well with Lackey, WInstigator, Matron, Ringleader and Warchief
- can't be imprinted into Chrome Mox

Kiki-Jiki:
+ is a Goblin [b]cards]
+ enables recurring effects
+ can be imprinted into Chrome Mox
- does not copy opponent'S permanents
- is quite expensive with cmc4-5 and needs 5 counters to bring in with Vial
- RRR in it's casting cost can be an issue for casting him

I'd like to hear your oppinion here, even your first impression and/or gut-feeling will do.

Are those cards reasonable replaements for Krenko?
Which of the two is better?
Are there better replacements, maybe?

My first impressions are : Phirexian metamorph is not a goblin so i'm hesitant about running him .... kiki-jiki costs 5 and this is why i cut siege gang from my list. Despite i am quite happy with my 2 krenko (as you can see in my last report they were mvp both times against shardless bug), i suggest you to run lightning crafter, which is good removal and possibly an additional ringleader / matron. But I'm sure that you already considered him, so... is there any reason why you excluded crafter from the possible substitutes of krenko ?

Kiki-Jiki is a goblin. Remember the old adage.

If it's not a goblin, then it must have a very, very strong reason to be included in the deck.

As for Kiki-Jiki versus Krenko in your build I simply like Kiki-Jiki better. I found that copying a Chieftain usually results in lethal when I was running an Instigator list. Also if you hit from Instigator and put in a Matron to Kiki-Jiki your opponents going to have a bad time.

@GobboLord: I'd easily swap Krenko for Kiki. He is that awesome in Instigators build, and make T3 kill with Instigator T1 having just a Matron in hand, which is unvaluable against combo.
On the SB, you could test Metamorph. It does sound like a good card against several matchups. Of the cards you mentioned though, guess Weirdings could do ruffly the same job. Which leads me to: Does adding the number of removal - Weirdings more precisely - offset the need to run Tuktuk MD?
Also, being more explosive has the same effect?

I'm currently trying a Rb Instigator list too, which has an increased number of T3 Kills (given by a mix of Mox, Piledriver, Winstigator and Frogtosser (which is ok since I cut Krenko too)). It goes like this:
2 Wasteland
4 Badlands
4 Cavern of Souls
6 Fetchland
3 Mountain
3 Chrome Mox

4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
3 Warren Instigator
3 Gobin Piledriver
3 Frogtosser Banneret
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

3 Warrens Weirdings
2 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Tarfire

Sideboard:
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Chalice of the Void

2 Perish

1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Earwig Squad
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie

2 Pithing Needle (or Mox #4 + Shooter or Perish #3 or Stingscourger)

So Cristhian, since you've been pushing this kind of list (and everybody else, of course): Any input here?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ScatmanX

@GobboLord: I'd easily swap Krenko for Kiki. He is that awesome in Instigators build, and make T3 kill with Instigator T1 having just a Matron in hand, which is unvaluable against combo.
On the SB, you could test Metamorph. It does sound like a good card against several matchups. Of the cards you mentioned though, guess Weirdings could do ruffly the same job. Which leads me to: Does adding the number of removal - Weirdings more precisely - offset the need to run Tuktuk MD?
Also, being more explosive has the same effect?

I'm currently trying a Rb Instigator list too, which has an increased number of T3 Kills (given by a mix of Mox, Piledriver, Winstigator and Frogtosser (which is ok since I cut Krenko too)). It goes like this:
2 Wasteland
4 Badlands
4 Cavern of Souls
6 Fetchland
3 Mountain
3 Chrome Mox

4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
3 Warren Instigator
3 Gobin Piledriver
3 Frogtosser Banneret
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

3 Warrens Weirdings
2 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Tarfire

Sideboard:
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Chalice of the Void

2 Perish

1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Earwig Squad
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie

2 Pithing Needle (or Mox #4 + Shooter or Perish #3 or Stingscourger)

So Cristhian, since you've been pushing this kind of list (and everybody else, of course): Any input here?

---

I like the the swap of Frogtosser Banneret for Warchief. This could provide some speed, but I'm cautious about the weak body and the fact it doesn't give your team haste. Dropping Krenko for Kiki-Jiki seems right in this build as well because you only have one set of hastelords.

to GoboLord and ScatmanX:
i like your lists guys, i really do, but why not full set of wastelands? i don´t get it.

[QUOTE=GoboLord

(1) The Most Valuable Players of the deck are [cards]Goblin Chieftain[/cards] and Goblin Ringleader.
(2) I am not really happy with Krenko Mob Boss

I see you are not playing MWM, if you did Krenko would be better! Plus Chieftains etc etc. we all know MWM is like glue improving other cards. They are offensive and not just defensive.

As I see it, Krenko needs to be played in a package that abuses goblin tokens where kiki needs to played in a less of a token based deck.

Krenko is most usefull when you can generate huge amounts of tokens fast ( in combo with MWM and SGC ), where kiki wants to bring in original goblins again ( ringleader, matron, etc ).

So I'd focus on wich kind of approach you'd like to take, tokens ( and therefor extend your manacurve a little with SGC + krenko for the vial route ) or copycat kiki ( still have the cmc of kiki, but with warchiefs that's a little easier to take hold as there's fewer cards in that approach with higher cmc than the token route ).

On the phyrexian metathingamajig, it's no goblin and that's saying alot.As Olaf said, if it's no goblin then it has to be VERY good to include in the deck.And what is the ONLY thing that the morph gives over kiki? that you can copy opponent's creatures.And what creature would you REALLY want to copy? there may be a total of 3-4 but those aren't gonna win you the game, so might as well go with sticking to goblins with kiki.

my 2 cents.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blakroc

I like the the swap of Frogtosser Banneret for Warchief. This could provide some speed, but I'm cautious about the weak body and the fact it doesn't give your team haste. Dropping Krenko for Kiki-Jiki seems right in this build as well because you only have one set of hastelords.

---

The classic build only run 4 hastelords (Warchief usually), so there's no problem on running only 4.
The weak body of Frogtosser is made up by the speed he provides. If you're able to cast him T1 with mox, then you could have a T2 of Chieftain + Piledriver and hit for 10 on T2. Thats a lot of pressure. Still, need to test more to see if it is really worth it. If I were to cut him it would become 2x Warchief + 1x Instigator (4#).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tesla

to GoboLord and ScatmanX:
i like your lists guys, i really do, but why not full set of wastelands? i don´t get it.

---

There are 3 things that conspire to make we cut the colorless lands:
1 - Instigator builds need RR T1 and T2 way more often than traditional builds do, so in order to increase those odds, colorless lands are cut.
2 - Playing Chrome Mox with few lands. Mox count as a R source usually. Add that to the fact that we still want to play some basic mountains, and we have to cut something somewhere. Colorless lands are the options because, not only we want basics, but we want all B producing lands we can get too, which leads us to:
3 - The deck plays Cabal Therapy and Warrens Weirdings (mine Frogtosser too), which are T1 and T2 plays. You really don't want to open a hand against combo with Therapy and 0 B sources. Since we don't want to cut further on Basics neither on Mox, colorless lands get the cut.
Since we still aknowledge Westlands are awesome, we still try to fit some in our decks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tesla

to GoboLord and ScatmanX:
i like your lists guys, i really do, but why not full set of wastelands? i don´t get it.

---

Probably because of the many double red manacost.

Imho, Kiki works better with Instigator. Only one question: why not Port over Wasteland? Yes it needs mana, but I found it more useful because you don't have to sac it. Right now my manabase looks like this:

2 Taiga or a 1/1-split between Taiga/Plateau
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Wasteland
2 Arid Mesa
3 Mountain
3 Chrome Mox
3 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of Souls

And yes, I'm trying the Mox-approach :)

Another question: do you guys think the White-splash is too slow? I like it, but found myself loosing against Stormbased decks because not being able to drop Thalia to slow them down. Also, cutting Wasteland seems to be counter-productive with the manadenial-strategy.