[ZEN] Rumor Mill

Remember when we were told we'd never see "Char" type cards - that is, tournament staples - ever printed at Mythic?

Between this and Mindbreak Trap, that's pretty much out the window. (I know everyone is focused on MbT's alternate cost and Storm hosing potential, but it's also vicious against cascade and uncounterable spells, and it's not like good four mana counters are unplayable in Standard)

MTG's an expensive hobby, and I'm not complaining about that, I'm just wondering if we're seeing the end of stuff like Sakura-Tribe Elder getting printed at common.

I love the art, but is that cobra the card they were gushing over?

There's no question that it's good. The question is whether I want to play it, and if so, where?

I don't think that Cobra will see much play in Legacy. Most deck in Legacy either have a low land count, a small mana-curve, or both. I mean, would you play lots of high c.c. cards because of a puny mana-critter?

If this was the combo-card people were hypothetically (please God) shitting themselves over, I think they ruined their pants for nothing.

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Originally Posted by morgan_coke

Remember when we were told we'd never see "Char" type cards - that is, tournament staples - ever printed at Mythic?

Between this and Mindbreak Trap, that's pretty much out the window. (I know everyone is focused on MbT's alternate cost and Storm hosing potential, but it's also vicious against cascade and uncounterable spells, and it's not like good four mana counters are unplayable in Standard)

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Yeah, pretty much. If they're going to start going back on their word, can they at least abolish the reserved list while they're at it? -.-

For everyone in this thread who's confused about Lotus Cobra's role in Legacy, its to let Tempo Thresh and Team America cast Brainstorm or Ponder off of the Wasteland they just used on you.

Cobra makes any fetchland produce three mana the turn it comes into play, or produce one mana on your turn and two on your opponents. Even if you're just using the mana to spin Top and StP a creature, it's still insane tempo/speed boost.

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Originally Posted by morgan_coke

For everyone in this thread who's confused about Lotus Cobra's role in Legacy, its to let Tempo Thresh and Team America cast Brainstorm or Ponder off of the Wasteland they just used on you.

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What 4 cards do you dilute your deck by taking out? Those lists are fairly tight.

Snake will be a beast in Standard.

I don't think it will translate well to Legacy though. Legacy decks can't afford to be running Ultimatums and such as w/o the Snake they are dead draws. With the huge amount of removal in the format one can't really design a deck that's based around keeping the Cobra in play to cast a bomb the following turn, and even if they were to build such a deck it seems worse than Storm combo. Most of the decks curve out to max of 5cc spells, most of them bulk at 1-2cc, the Snake just doesn't seem like it accomplishes enough if all you're using him to do is cast an extra 1cc spell, or spin your SDT, from time to time.

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Originally Posted by morgan_coke

For everyone in this thread who's confused about Lotus Cobra's role in Legacy, its to let Tempo Thresh and Team America cast Brainstorm or Ponder off of the Wasteland they just used on you.

Cobra makes any fetchland produce three mana the turn it comes into play, or produce one mana on your turn and two on your opponents. Even if you're just using the mana to spin Top and StP a creature, it's still insane tempo/speed boost.

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Eh. The earliest either of those two decks could use Cobra's ability is turn three-and both decks are land-light, so there's a good chance that Cobra would just be a 2/1 for two. I'd rather lay out 'Goyf on turn two than a conditional mana-booster.

Cobra is kind of fail, it doesn't even replace Hierarch IMO.

Xero -

Ok fine, it's to make Survival go nuts. This thing is a crazy amount of mana fixing AND mana acceleration. Also, it has some nice synergy with Daze type effects. Which thresh decks etc. definitely do run.

Basically, if you untap with this on t3, you get to dump your hand and see if that kind of speed boost is enough to carry you to victory. A lot of the time it will be. Especially if you're playing something like TA or Eva Green where "dumping your hand in one turn" means your opponent has no board/cards in hand.

I honestly don't understand how people can not be amazed by this. IT TURNS YOUR FETCHLANDS INTO BLACK LOTUS' THAT CAN PRODUCE MANA OF MULTIPLE COLORS.

Basically, ask yourself if you would play this card:

Artifact
0
When ~artifact~ enters the battlefield, add one mana of any color to your mana pool and put two counters on it. Remove a counter from ~artifact~ add one mana of any color to your mana pool. When the last counter is removed from ~artifact~ search your library for a basic or dual land and put it into play tapped. ~artifact~ takes up your landdrop the turn it is played.

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Because with Cobra in play, that's basically what all your fetchlands do.

So, are you holding onto fetch-lands so you can use them with Cobra? With normal lands, I don't really see this being much better than Birds of Paradise.

Not to be a Deby Downer, but if you have survival online, you can go nuts without that card.

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Originally Posted by Xero

So, are you holding onto fetch-lands so you can use them with Cobra? With normal lands, I don't really see this being much better than Birds of Paradise.

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Swings for 2.

This mainly provides mana-fixing, so your deck should play a good amount of fetches.

That's a pretty horribly flawed comparison to Lotus, there's no way that you can simplify the Snake to the degree that you leave out the fact that it costs 1G and has one toughness. If it turns out to be awesome, it'll die just as much as Bob does (which is a lot, he takes Bolts, Fire//Ice, StP, etc to the face all day long) and it doesn't do anything interesting past the first few turns, while Bob is always awesome. Here's how I'd say it:

1G
At the beginning of one of your mainphases of your turn, you may add two mana of any color to your manapool.
2/1

So it's a personal Magus of the Vinyard for only yourself, it makes better colors, it comes online a turn later, and to simply I left out the issue of not having another land to play. Meh, not thrilling.

On a different note, I can see Pyromancer's Ascension being solid in Aggro Loam. I don't know if it's a 4-of, but it seems worth a second look. Being able to get six lands back for :1::g: in the mid/late game seems like some good to me.

I don't feel like that's really what aggro loam wants though, even more reliance on its LftL? I think it's probably better off just having a threat in that spot.

morgan, I don't get you. Are you trying to troll us, or do you honestly believe the retarded shit you vomit all over the boards?

Canadian Threshold will never play this card. It eats your entire second turn to produce a pitiful threat that might allow you to go into topdeck mode in a few turns. Compare this to Dark Confidant, which is also a pitiful threat, but has the advantage of replacing itself and single-handedly winning the game if left unchecked, or at the very least Misdirecting a removal spell away from Tarmogoyf. How does a card that encourages you to overextend without providing any significant upside make any impact in this format at all?

And what happens when, say, your opponent Stifles your fetchland? Lol newb, you played Cobra on turn two instead of Tarmogoyf. Enjoy not swinging for 3+ as a consolation prize.

Survival - at least, the good versions - will never play this card. In green, for two mana and a 2/1 body, Survival can play Rofellos, which will make more mana than this thing ever will, even disregarding Stifle. Sure, Rofellos can't make lots of mana and swing in the same turn, but why you would want to swing with a creature that dies to fucking every other creature in the format is beyond me. It even trades with Mogg War Marshal. That's pretty fucking sad.

In short, when all your cards are way cheaper than they should be, making extra mana is totally irrelevant. Tarmogoyf generates "extra" mana just by virtue of being ridiculously undercosted, and Tarmogoyf can actually win games in a reasonable amount of time.

Although, I will concede that this, Exploration, Life from the Loam, and Azusa, Lost but Seeking may just fuel a lethal Fireball combo deck. Great alternative to Tendrils, really, and probably light years better than Belcher.

This is the last thing I'll say about the Cobra.

Lotus Cobra is to mana as Dark Confidant is to card draw.

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Originally Posted by Valtrix

I don't feel like that's really what aggro loam wants though, even more reliance on its LftL? I think it's probably better off just having a threat in that spot.

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Agreed. If Aggro Loam is safely loaming, they're probably winning anyways with that one Loam. If they don't have time to get set up, this doesn't buy them any like it would to instead drop something like Goyf, Terravore, or CSide Crusher. If Ascension finds a deck, it would have to be a lot more dedicated to the awesome concept than Aggro Loam is. If anything, it's a build-around card, not a build-into card.

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Originally Posted by morgan_coke

This is the last thing I'll say about the Cobra.

Lotus Cobra is to mana as Dark Confidant is to card draw.

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Being a 1C 2/1 with an ability isn't enough to make a card good by default. Elvish Archer is to First Striking as Dark Confidant is to card draw, and Nezumi Graverobber is to robbing graves as Tarmogoyf is to being much much better than a 2/1, but what the fuck does that even mean?