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I saw the deck in action, and was impressed with Intuition/VV strategy for the maindeck.
I'm still not sold on Brainstorm, as it diminishes the Glimpse plan. Truly it's hard to evaluate how the deck operates since most of the time I saw Hatch just run out Intuition/VV and utilize the extra mana from Gaea's Cradle to power out 3 VV's as early as turn 2.
I prefer my brother's deck which lost to those decks on tiebreakers xD.Quote:
Originally Posted by arebennian
Which happens to be...Quote:
Originally Posted by ummon
I run Tendrils/Grapeshot (testing both...Tendrils requires more untapped elves, Grapeshot needs a higher storm count) with an aggro 2nd win/con. If you use Emrakul + Grapeshot, you're actually playing THREE win/cons, and that just doesn't seem smart. Swapping win/cons out in the sideboard against certain matchups may be viable, but running 3 maindeck could possibly water down the deck too much. I have a hard time finding sideboard room ANYWAYS, as every card removed makes the deck slightly sub-optimal, just so you have a chance to hate out your opponent and have a slightly better chance of winning. This is combo, after all...hard to sideboard, and it needs to be uber-focused in the maindeck. The only change I'm considering is getting down to 14 lands maindeck (currently using 15) and squeezing in a 4th Archdruid or possibly a 5th tutor (this new-fangled Green Sun's Zenith, Chord of Calling, or even possibly Primal Command...the chance of gaining life/ halting tempo while digging out Regal Force seems good against certain matchups)Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilObstat
Quote:
Originally Posted by arebennian
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
Green Sun's Zenith? I dont know if you guys saw that card (if not, here it is: Green Sun's Zenith)
Can that be utilized in this deck? I'm going to try it using rukcus's old list (the list with Survival of the Fittest, replacing Anger and Masked Admirers with it)
Has anyone thought about that card?
Okay so here is my first tournament report...
I got 18th at the SCG San Jose with 18 points (6-2). I was tied for 11th place but dropped all the way down due to bad tie-breaker.
My deck list:
Main Deck:
1 Viridian Shama
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Lanowar Elves
4 Heritage Druid
1 Eternal Witness
3 Birchlore Rangers
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Priest of Titania
1 Joraga Warcalller
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Regal Force
1 Emrakul, the aeons torn
Spells:
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Summoner's Pact
Lands:
2 Gaea's Cradle
8 Forest
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
Side Board
4 Krosan Grip
4 Elvish Archdruid
2 Joraga Warcaller
2 Elvish Champion
3 Tormod's Crpyt
Round 1 Playing Burn (2-0) 3 pts
Normally I would say this in a bad match-up but his burn deck was in my opinion slightly under-optimized
Game 1.
He wins die-roll. On my second turn I tried comboing off but I fizzled. On turn 3 I combo off again and Fizzle, I drew into four lands!! By the end of his turn 4 he puts me down to 9 life. By this time I had a bunch of elves out so I played Joraga kicked twice and killed him.
Game 2
He plays goblin guide turn 1 and puts me down to 18. On my turn, I play Lanowar elves. Turn 2 he hits me again with goblin guide and plays two lava spikes putting me down to 10. On my second turn I play Gaea's cradle and combo off playing Emrakul for the win.
Round 2 playing UB Merfolk (2-0) 6 pts
He lost game 1 automatically because there was some problem with the deck-list he turned in. I was really lucky because for game 2 the judge said we couldn't sideboard. He was running perish and engineered plague in his sideboard.
Game 1
Automatic win for me.
Game 2
He really couldn't do anything. He tried to stop me from comboing off with curse catcher but failed. I played emrakul for the win. He didn't even manage to do any damage to me!
Round 3 playing Bant (0-2) 6 pts.
Game 1
There was really nothing I could do he forced twice and used Sword to plowshares to kill all my creatures.
Game 2
This game was even worse! He had daze, force, and swords to plowshares. After a few turns he plays a Goyf and kills me.
Round 4 playing U Merfolk (2-0) 9 pts
Because he wasn't playing Ub Merfolk he didn't have many cards to sideboard against me. So this was an easy matchup despite my bad hand.
Game 1
Turn 3 I had 6 elves down and right after I play regal force he scoops....
Game 2
I side boarded in all my lords and took out the all the Glimpses, Viridian shaman, 1 Priest, and 1 Wirewood
I mulled down to 6. In my second hand I had no summoner's pacts, regal force, or lords. I was hopping I would draw into a lord so I kept the hand. Despite not drawing into any lords after I played all my elves I managed to swarm him with 1/1 elves. This win was really close in fact if he had played correctly he might have been able to beat me. I won the game with 1 life remaining.
Round 5 playing I don't know... (2-0) 12 pts
Game 1
I really don't remember what happened in this game I just remember I played Emrakul.
Game 2
All I remember is playing Joraga kicked 4 times and killing him...
Round 6 UBW merfolk (1-2) 12 pts
Game 1
Game 1 was really easy since he couldn't sideboard. I played Emrakul turn 4 and won. I do remember having to play around a few counters and a force. Against merfolk I would suggest not keeping a hand with only one way to go off since your opponent will almost always force that. Also try to keep allot of mana open to pay for daze and spell pierce.
Game 2
I replaced the 4 summoner's pact, 4 glimpse of nature, viridian shaman, wire wood, Quirion rangers, and priest with all the lords and 4 Krosan Grip.
I am quite sure he put in 1 Umezawa's Jitte, 4 engineered plagues, 3 perishes, 1 sword of fire and ice, and 2 Stoneforge mystic.
He perishes me twice and pretty much slaughters me.
Game 3
This one was really close. I got a good early lead with joraga kicked twice and a bunch of elves out. He played Stoneforge mystic searching for a Umezawa's Jitte I Krosan Griped it. He played a Commander and starts leveling him. I attacked him loosing a bunch of my elves but making him block with commander which was only a 3/3. He plays another Stoneforge mystic with aether vial searching for Swords of fire and ice. I destroyed the Vial with my Grip instead of destroying Fire and ice. I have no clue why I did that..... After that I pretty much lost my tempo and he kills me. I did get him down to 2 life however. Umezawa's Jitte and Swords of fire and ice are really good against elves since they can spot remove your creatures. Krosan griping the first Jitte saved me from loosing right then and if I had Krosan griped the swords of fire and ice I might have been able to win the game.
Round 7 Playing affinity (2-0) 15 pts
Game 1
All I remember is using Joraga kicked 4 times for the kill.
game 2
This game was really interesting. I didn't sideboard in anything.
He plays a bunch of artifacts turn 1. On his turn two all I have out is a lanowar elves so he swings for a total of 7 damage. on my second turn I play a nettle and one more elf. His turn 3 he uses Ornithopter and Cranial plating to hit me for 9 putting me down to 4. I decide to off with a pretty strong hand. After playing a bunch elves I decide to kill his artifacts with viridian shaman and 3 wirewoods but because I forgot to untap the 1 Nettle sentinel I had, I fizzled. He uses his flyer with shroud to hit me down to 1 life on his 4th turn. On my turn I go off again. He had 2 cards in has hand so just to make sure I use viridian to kill all his remaining artifacts. After that I kept playing elves hoping to draw into Emrakul. After noticing that I had only 6 cards in my library I played Joraga kicked 11 times to kill him.
Having Viridian Shaman really saved me here. I could have won turn 3 if it wasn't for the fact that I ran out of space to put all my elves and things got so messed up that I forgot to untap the nettle.:laugh:
Round 8 playing Spring tide (2-1)
I though this would be a really good match up since I can easily race him. Unfortunately he was running forces and I have some trouble playing around forces.
Game 1
I keep a perfect hand with glimpse, heritage, and Nettle Sentinel.
He forces my glimpse and I end up having to go aggro on him with no lords.... He combos off turn 5 or something and brain freezes me.
Game 2
I play a bunch of elves and run out of mana. I end my turn with 1 card in my hand. He make the mistake of not going off on his turn thinking I can't do anything with 1 card in my hand. On my turn I drew in something useless but the card in my hand was a Summoner's pact :cool:. I summon a Joraga and kill him.
For this game being able to summon Joraga was really good I didn't even have to combo or anything.
Game 3
I was almost sure I was going to lose this game having had to mulligan down to 5 cards. Turn four I try to go off but fail. I played a regal force drawing 6 cards which got me nothing. I then played eternal witness returning a summoner's pact to my hand, use the pact to find elvish visionary which also draws me into nothing good. He goes of on his turn but also fizzles after casting a meditate. I swarmed him for the kill which was really easy since he had to skip his turn.
Okay first of all the side-board was meant to be a complete aggro fallback for games 2 and 3. I noticed that doesn't work out... I think putting Vexing Shusher and some other cards will be better. I personally think Vexing is better than Lifeforce because vexing also stops your opponent from countering glimpse and summoner's pact. The 1 mana really won't slow you that much especially since any deck that is running counters is going to be slow. It is really easy to go off turn 4 while having to pay some extra mana.
I think the Viridian shaman and eternal witness are good card to have main deck. There were a few instances when I wished my priests were archdruids. However, since priest is 1 cmc less than archdruid I do remember that is saved me from fizzling often.
On a side note I think the living wish build will make this deck allot better.
Congrats on the placement! It sounds like you know how to play the deck. I think with the new wish build, you could place even higher. Did you ever wish you had archdruid main instead of priests? I always found that having an aggro plan main was huge.
Neil: Cheers for the report, very cool. Bad luck on not making Top 16.
I'm interested in why you guys think the Living Wish builds would fare better than say the list he ran? Doesn't it just open you up to another counterspell? As in.. casting Emraku (MD) vs. hoping to resolve a Wish to then get Emrakul? Maybe there's something I'm missing. If its to get utility creatures such as Vexing Shusher in Game 1, then I guess so. Isn't it enough just to board them in Game 2/3 though?
Another random question from those that know the deck better than me: how come Staff of Domination fell out of favour? I searched the thread but didn't find anything definitive. Is it simply because its not a creature/antergy with Glimpse? Or since Cthulu was printed its simply not needed? When goldfishing older versions of the deck, Staff was always a great way to go infinite. Cheers for thoughts here.
I see Staff as just way to expensive unless you run Archdruid or Titanias, and then I don't see the point in running those either, I never have a mana problem in this deck, maybe a 2% of the games which compared to the 20% of fizzling while going off that we tend to have. That's why I run Cloudstone Curio and it works just great with me, because it also works as Glimpse of Nature number 5 and 6, since you can combo with Curio, Nettle, Visionary, any elf, slowly but it combos ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSleeper
There were a few instances when I wished my priests were archdruids. However, since priest is 1 cmc less than archdruid I do remember that is saved me from fizzling often.Quote:
Originally Posted by k2thej
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSleeper
Like you said it gets utility creature game 1 which I believe will help the deck a lot more. Also cards like viridian shaman can go sideboard but I can still use it against artifacts game 1. Also gaea's cradle can be wished for when you really need it.
Neither am I. I also think pure elves combo is a better and cooler deck xD.Quote:
Originally Posted by k2thej
Green Sun's Zenith seems interesting but I don't think it can make the cut. Allot of times I do not combo off but just use summoner's pact to find Joraga and kick him a bunch of times to win. With Green Sun's Zenith you can't kick Joraga.
No offense, but I don't understand why allot of people want something like 5th or 6th glimpse of nature. I really haven't found any card that is as good as glimpse. Running anything worse will slow down the deck. Out of all my games at the tournament only once did I wish I had more glimpse of natures and that time I was really unlucky (I still won however). If you don't have glimpse in your hand you can use summoner's pact to find either Joraga or regal depending on wether you need to win this turn or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilObstat
"K2theJ likes this"Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
GSZ has potential, but I wouldn't cut Pact for it. I wouldn't mind getting a third Nettle Sentinel with it though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
I don't mean to pick on Shabbaman, but this brings up one of the main ways I think people might be misplaying the deck. You really do not need 3 nettles in play, 2 is optimal, and 3 is great, sure, but you don't need it. In order to minimize fizzling, once you start to glimpse you should play a visionary whenever you can afford it. This means summoning visionary whenever possible as long the extra one mana won't stop you. This is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT for the consistency of this deck. Is everyone doing this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabbaman
hi,
last weekend i play elfball in hannover and went 3-2-1 after 3-1 start:(
my list:
3 forest
8 fetch
1 savannah
1 bayou
2 taiga
1 horizon canopy (15. land)
4 nettle sentinel
4 heritage druid
4 birchlore ranger
4 elvish visionary
1 elvish archdruid (vs plague, tabernacle)
3 fauna shaman
4 wirewood symbiote
1 sylvok replica (vs plague, cb)
1 mirror entity
1 sylvan messenger (fauna shaman engine)
3 quirion ranger
3 fyndhorn elves
4 llanowar elves
3 glimpse of nature
3 burning wish (4-6. glimpse + answer for cb + killing by grapeshot)
1 chord of calling (tutor without summon sickness like fauna shaman)
sb
1 glimpse of nature
1 gleeful sabotage
1 grapeshot
4 cabal therapy (dredge + combo)
1 burrenton forge tender (firesprout)
1 ethersworn canonist
1 gaddock teeg
1 caller of claws
2 krosan grip (anser no. 9+10)
1 magus of the moon (rock, landstill etc if your opponent ignores to fetch basics)
1 viridian shaman (vs staxx, jitte(symbiote + shaman > replica))
round 1 dredge 2-1
g1 turn 3 win
g2 he disrupted me with lot of therapies
g3 turn 3 win
round 2 dredge 1-2
g1 he disrupted me with lot of therapies + turn 4 win
g2 i had teeg and therapies vs breakthrough and bridges
g3 i draw 10 of 15 lands with opening hand -> 4 lands (1 canopy 2 fetch 1 forest) 1 therapy 1 visionary 1 birchlore ranger
round 3 dredge ( 5 of 45 people are playing dredge) 2-1
g1 he won after a long fight
g2 i won turn 3
g3 he mulled to 4 and i killed him turn 4
round 4 goblins 2-0
g1 turn 3 matron -> turn 4 shooter -> my turn 4 win:)
g2 turn 2 canonist -> viridian shaman searched by fauna shaman -> turn 3 matron + turn 4 shooter -> i won turn 4:D
round 5 gwb rock 1-1-1
g1 i won with beatz:)
g2 he disrupted me with lot of hymns + deeds and it was a long fight
g3 (i boarded out my grips because i didn't see any plague) -> turn 2 canonist and a very long fight... i had caller of claws + symbiote but he had 1 vampire nighthawk and few turns later this 1 jitte -> nobobdy won in time out -> 1-1-1:(
round 6 surpreme blue 1-2
g1 i won after 3. glimpse
g2 he had 2 firesprout 1 ee 1-2 cbs + some dazes/fows
g3 look at g2 (i took my first mulligan at these day)
pro:
fauna shaman -> really good... if she arrived next turn you can search end of turn of opponent + own turn and do your combo.
con:
wish -> it's really good but non-green sucks...
now i want to test these list:
3 forest
2 horizon canopy
1 bayou
1 taiga
1 savannah
8 fetch
4 llanowar elves
3 fyndhorn elves
2 birchlore ranger (they're nice but i play only green cards)
4 heritage druid
4 nettle sentinel
4 wirewood symbiote
3 quirion ranger
1 elvish archdruid
4 elvish visionery
4 fauna shaman
1 sylvan messenger
1 sylvok replica
1 mirror entity
1 regal force
4 glimpse of nature
2 chord of calling
1 grapeshot (maybe 1 emrakul, 3. chord, 1 primal command)
sb:
1 ethersworn canonist
1 gaddock teeg
1 caller of claws
1 viridian shaman
1 magus of the moon
1 yixlid jailer (easy to find with shaman/chord vs dredge)
1 orzhov pontiff (vs shooter/mirror)
1 burrenton forge tender
2 gleeful sabotage
1 krosan grip
4 discard (duress, thoughtseize, cabal therapy)
Well, then I'm really very super happy for you guys, you really must have a great bunch of luck stuck up in your Deckbox.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
Elves, don't always combo, we only run 4 Glimpse, so we don't always draw them, and they get countered many times, and then the fall back upon an aggro plan really isn't that big.
Sure Elves combo many, many times on turn 2, 3 or 4, but then something like 15% of the games, we will just sit there and do nothing with your builds, because we didn't get Glimpse or Summoner's or your last hope, Warcaller, got countered-sworded-pathed-even bolted if we haven't comboed and we play it with 2 counters. So yeah, I support Cloudstone Curio, because it doesn't just count as Glimpses 5 and 6, but it doesn't helps us not fizzling while going off and running out of dudes.
I really don't mean to criticize, but I don't want you to act as though your deck never fails, or doesn't frequently fail, because it does, many times, otherwise we would be Tier1. That's why I accept it and try to work solutions out of it, not to make the fastest build ever with less CMC mana cost general. I just try to figure, stronger, more capable of reaction to any situation, and more consistent builds even in unlucky situations.
So far I'm doing good, but I'm not liking your "I beat ass" attitude ;)
You can always "bounce" it with Wirewood, and recast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
I think your list could use 1 or 2 of these guys, plus adding some green sexy dudes sideboard:
Dauntless Escort, Gaddock Teeg, Harmonic Sliver, Qasali Pridemage, Vexing Shusher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilObstat
The only reason this deck is not tier one is because most people don't understand how to play the deck. With 4 glimpses you have more than enough fuel to do something awesome every game. I promise. If I had enough time to play in more tournaments I would win. Curio is not a good idea. I've been playing elves for 10 years. Curio is not a good idea. This deck can win consistently, but not with curio.
Why isnt Weird Harvest being used? 4 harvest and 4 Glimpses is enough to fight through countermagic. Most elf combo decks rely on drawing into one of only four Glimpses. If you don't draw one, then you fall back onto a crappy aggro backup. With Weird Harvest and a Priest of Titania or Archduid out, you can Weird Harvest for any combination of Qurion Rangers/ Wirewood Symbiotes/ Emrakul. Untap your mana producers repeatedly and you have turn 3 Emrakul.
Throw this in a list with full playsets of Heritage Druids/Nettle Sentinels/Glimpse of Natures and you have two consistent ways of comboing off