[Deck] Painter-Stone

For those that tested Whir of Invention, what was the result, I think the card has promise, but it does seem like it constrains you mana wise on number of non blue lands. I don't know if you want to try and play it with no ancient tombs, or perhaps with some number of pentad prism, maybe even with mox diamond?

I do like the idea, especially when I realized that LED has no tap symbol on it, so works very well with the card. I think being able to end step get painter/grindstone into play without having to expose yourself to surgical extraction (I am looking at you intuition) seems strong, but it means a big change to the deck. It, however, might be worth it.

EDIT:
First pass at a whir list:

//Combo
4 Painter's Servant
4 Grindstone
1 Tormod's Crypt

//Protection
4 Force of Will
3 Goblin Welder
3 Pyroblast

//Draw and Tutor
3 Transmute Artifact
3 Whir of Invention
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

//Back Up Plans
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Ensnaring Bridge

//Mana
3 Pentad Prism
2 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Inventors' Fair

//Sideboard
SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Spellskite
SB: 1 Izzet Staticaster
SB: 1 Sudden Demise
SB: 1 Chandra, Pyromaster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by polski

Which are in your opinion the best and the worst pairings?
can you share your sideboarding plan?
regards

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So I played at the LGS last night with this list:


// Lands
1 [MR] Great Furnace
2 [TE] Ancient Tomb
1 [UNH] Swamp
1 [UNH] Mountain
2 [UNH] Island
2 [B] Volcanic Island
2 [KTK] Bloodstained Mire
1 [B] Underground Sea
2 [MR] Seat of the Synod
1 [B] Badlands
3 [KTK] Polluted Delta
3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn

// Creatures
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
4 [UL] Goblin Welder
3 [C16] Baleful Strix

// Spells
4 [TE] Grindstone
3 [IA] Pyroblast
1 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
2 [SOM] Mox Opal
1 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
2 [MBS] Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 [CN2] Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
4 [AL] Force of Will
1 [TE] Intuition
4 [C15] Brainstorm
2 [AQ] Transmute Artifact
1 [MR] Pyrite Spellbomb
1 [XLN] Search for Azcanta/Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin
1 [SOM] Ratchet Bomb

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 3 [CH] Blood Moon
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [DS] Trinisphere
SB: 1 [DGM] Notion Thief
SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 [AL] Helm of Obedience
SB: 1 [KLI] Engineered Explosives

Ended up in Top 4 (only a 4 round tourney and I went 3-1 with good tie-breakers) with one loss to Death & Taxes. I beat a U/W control deck, an affinity deck and a nic-fit deck featuring academy rector, which was actually pretty interesting. I ended up cutting the the sudden demise and toxic deluge for a second bridge and an e.e which was a mistake. I think I would actually go back to 2 x fiery confluence and maybe a third spell like deluge in the SB, cutting the bridge, e.e. and maybe notion thief.
The second mox opal is what I would consider the "flex" spot in the main. Opal doesn't feel right here either. I think I would either run a second bridge or second pyrite spellbomb. That card is surprisingly good.

As for sideboarding, my strategy is pretty loose still. Basically, anything that depends somewhat heavily on the graveyard (including all the decks with deathrite AND snapcaster) will see leylines come in. The blood moons are for 4 color decks (like leovold), eldrazi, lands, and generally anything else that relies heavily on non-basics. The burn spells would obviously be for heavy creature/tribal decks, particularly d & t. This is the one match-up that I think got worse when I switched away from shortcake. I'm just not packing as much creature removal and it's the primary reason I want to add the second pyrite spellbomb. Needle is just a good utility card, particularly against equipment, planeswalkers, thespian's stage and pernicious deed (which I see a good amount of locally). The rest seem pretty self-explanatory. Just as an aside, helm of obedience is particularly good against big Eldrazi and show & tell decks, even without the leyline out and especially if you have an active welder. I'm still really liking this list. Delver decks can be tough but the blue has actually really helped. Blood Moon is usually your strongest card against those decks.

Finally, I really don't like Whir of Invention. I know people are talking about the card more in the context of a blue/red build, and that deck definitely has the mana base to support it better. In this deck though, 3 blue mana is tough and I would have to have up to 7 mana open go get a helm, vs 2 mana and a welder (or relatively dispensable artifact) for the same thing using transmute.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by merfolkotpt

For those that tested Whir of Invention, what was the result, I think the card has promise, but it does seem like it constrains you mana wise on number of non blue lands. I don't know if you want to try and play it with no ancient tombs, or perhaps with some number of pentad prism, maybe even with mox diamond?

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Whir is my new favorite card. I play mono blue though.

Considering going white instead of red. Access to STP, canonist and tutor is obvious. Feel like canonist can help with counter wars.

Also thopter combo, though I dislike that combo for personal, nonstrategy reasons.

Can someone direct me to current mono blues lists?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by shallowend

Can someone direct me to current mono blues lists?

Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk

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the original was on mtggoldfish/hareruya by koikawa shun

other than posting in the thread this is what I'll be playing tomorrow night:

4 stone
4 painter
4 whir
4 bstorms
4 ponder
2 ratchet bomb
1 ensnaring bridge
1 blue tezz
1 spellskite
2 spell pierce
3 counterspell
1 flusterstorm
1 dismember (testing)
4 fow
2 Search for azcanta (testing)
2 relic of prog
1 tormods crypt
6 fetch
9 island
3 tomb
1 academy ruins

sb
2 surgical
2 llawan empress
2 thopter spy network
1 needle
1 phyrexian revoker
2 perilous voyage
3 blue elemental blast/hydro
1 hope og ghirapur
1 vedalken shackles

I need to test Whirl out a little more but it's been pretty medium for me. Often times when i'm trying to go for a quick combo i've been unable to cast it, however I like it a lot more in postboard games where i'm boarding out intuitions and don't want to expose myself to surgical extraction. 1 card that has really impressed me has been search for azcanta, in the slower matchups it flat out just wins you the game with a couple of activations.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CptHaddock

I need to test Whirl out a little more but it's been pretty medium for me. Often times when i'm trying to go for a quick combo i've been unable to cast it, however I like it a lot more in postboard games where i'm boarding out intuitions and don't want to expose myself to surgical extraction. 1 card that has really impressed me has been search for azcanta, in the slower matchups it flat out just wins you the game with a couple of activations.

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Whir has been the best card for me. Mono blue isn't all gas like other color combos IMO. It's more responsive. The instant speed and artifact convoke is insane and usually gets anything I want turn 3 ish for UUU.

I imagine if you play other things like LED it gets better bc you can whir and still crack it. But I don't think counterspell mono blue wants leds.

Ended up getting 16th at a 72 person tournament for a black lotus. My 2 losses were 0-2 to Jund and 0-2 to D&T. Jund did Jund things and in the D&T matchup my opponent had the soul read tapping out for a prelate on 2. Other than that I did have a match where my maverick opponent brought in Dryad Militant to stop grindstone. We called a judge and the judge ruled that because the Militant was exiling the cards the grindstone effect stopped and for some reason even after years of playing grindstone I didn't appeal that. Still kicking myself for completely missing that. For the record grindstone doesn't care where the cards are going, only if they share the same color. If grindstone cared where the cards are going, RIP wouldn't work in the old Rw builds.

As a plus I got to play with some sweet wurmcoil tokens though. :tongue:

https://i.imgur.com/XmA7RPO.jpg

For those of you playing the Grixis variants how is your Grixis Delver matchup? On paper it the strixes look wonderful against any delver variant but the manabase looks a little shaky. I've been struggling a lot recently vs the newer versions of Grixis Delver that are running snapcasters, kcommands, and/or more than the standard 1-2 grudges postboard. Wurmcoil also is pretty medium when your opponent can kcommand and later snapcaster kcommand it.

I'm currently playing Chandra (1 main, 1 board), Wurmcoil (1 in the board) and Blood Moons as my haymakers in this matchup, any suggestions for other haymakers for MU?

My current untested list (not grixis) is:

//Combo
4 Painter's Servant
4 Grindstone
1 Tormod's Crypt

//Protection
4 Force of Will
3 Goblin Welder
3 Pyroblast

//Draw and Tutor
4 Transmute Artifact
3 Tezzeret the Seeker
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

//Back Up Plans
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Ensnaring Bridge

//Mana
3 Grim Monolith
2 Mox Opal
3 Seat of the Synod
3 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain

//Sideboard
SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Spellskite
SB: 1 Izzet Staticaster
SB: 1 Sudden Demise
SB: 1 Chandra, Pyromaster

The idea is to focus less on the GY hence no intuition and only 3 welder, to help fight against the preponderance of surgical extractions that are all over the place. Also the ability to lean on ensnaring bridge against a lot of different decks (DnT, Delver variants). Tezz taking the place of Intuition as our second tutor effect instead of whir (easier to cast, better with other cards, alternate win condition).

Any thoughts about this?

Is there somewhere a thread specifically about the mono-U version of Painter? Or do we just adress that deck in this topic?

Any news with the grixis or ur version?

I think most variations are posted here.

I think the problem is the combo can work in any color combo deck. So far I've seen:

Mono u, mono r, rw, rwb, br, ubr, UB, ur

I'm thinking of going UW myself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by compacta_d

I think most variations are posted here.

I think the problem is the combo can work in any color combo deck. So far I've seen:

Mono u, mono r, rw, rwb, br, ubr, UB, ur

I'm thinking of going UW myself.

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I am curious about that!
Maybe you can have helm com in this version + painter?

I think main deck with back to basic is fine!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cyanhur

I am curious about that!
Maybe you can have helm com in this version + painter?

I think main deck with back to basic is fine!

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I'd probably bring it in post sb with another RIP.

i have enough stuff to test it out, but will probably wait a while. working on slivers now. :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by merfolkotpt

The idea is to focus less on the GY hence no intuition and only 3 welder, to help fight against the preponderance of surgical extractions that are all over the place. Also the ability to lean on ensnaring bridge against a lot of different decks (DnT, Delver variants). Tezz taking the place of Intuition as our second tutor effect instead of whir (easier to cast, better with other cards, alternate win condition).

Any thoughts about this?

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I actually really like this idea, i've reached the same conclusion about intuition although I think that it's still worth running atleast 1 as it's fantastic game 1. My only worry would be trying to cast Tezz without monolith hands especially against decks that punish mana like delver and d&t. If you haven't tried search for azcanta yet i'd really recommend it. It filters a little early on and allows you to grind really well in the late game. Not to mention that is basically finds everything but painter/welder/wurmcoil. I'm going to try 3 transmutes, 1 search and 1 intuition for my next run around. In paper that sounds close to whatever the ideal tutor combinations are for the current metagame. I've thought about a more control version of the deck but that always just leads me to wonder why i'm not splashing black for strixes.

Imo any version of this deck that doesn't run red is probably just doing it wrong. The benefit of playing red is that you get a lot of really high impact cards i.e. welder, blasts, planeswalkers, tutors, etc. Since this format is naturally very blue heavy and you're running painters main, the downside of running blast effects main is substantially lowered.

Edit:
My current list:

4 Painter's Servant
4 Grindstone
4 Pyroblast
4 Goblin Welder
3 Transmute Artifact
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Island
2 Great Furnace
3 Mox Opal
4 Force of Will
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Volcanic Island
2 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Seat of the Synod
1 City of Traitors
1 Mountain
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ancient Tomb
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Search for Azcanta
1 Intuition

2 Lightning Bolt
2 Pyroclasm
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Blood Moon
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Ensnaring Bridge

[QUOTE=CptHaddock;1032869]I actually really like this idea, i've reached the same conclusion about intuition although I think that it's still worth running atleast 1 as it's fantastic game 1. My only worry would be trying to cast Tezz without monolith hands especially against decks that punish mana like delver and d&t. If you haven't tried search for azcanta yet i'd really recommend it. It filters a little early on and allows you to grind really well in the late game. Not to mention that is basically finds everything but painter/welder/wurmcoil. I'm going to try 3 transmutes, 1 search and 1 intuition for my next run around. In paper that sounds close to whatever the ideal tutor combinations are for the current metagame. I've thought about a more control version of the deck but that always just leads me to wonder why i'm not splashing black for strixes.

Imo any version of this deck that doesn't run red is probably just doing it wrong. The benefit of playing red is that you get a lot of really high impact cards i.e. welder, blasts, planeswalkers, tutors, etc. Since this format is naturally very blue heavy and you're running painters main, the downside of running blast effects main is substantially lowered.

I agree 100%. Why would play a painter deck and not play red blasts and welders? Those are some of the strongest cards in the deck! I also agree with search for azcanta. I've been running 1 copy for a while now and am always happy to see it. It's also funny how aggressive my opponents have been in removing or countering it. It apparently poses a serious threat. It really shines against the control match-ups (u/w) where the card advantage is crucial. I do take it out against fast combo or sometimes if I am bringing in Blood Moons.

I am also on 1 x intuition and 2 x transmute artifact. With the back-up plan in my deck of the helm-leyline combo, transmute is really good at finding my helm. I'm still not convinced of the intuition either but occasionally when you can play it with a welder on board it's really good.

I'm still on a Grixis list with 1 Darreti and 2 Tezzeret (UB) in the main and have really been liking this list. I bet I win a third of my games by just ultimating Tezzeret. I've also been playing a couple copies of Collective Brutality in my SB and have really liked it. These could possibly be k.command as well but the 1 x mana cheaper is the targeted hand removal is preferable right now. I won a game last night where I had a leyline and welder on board and pitched the helm in my hand to collective brutality, got to see their hand and then welded in helm and won on the spot. The interactions of this deck are so much fun.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drude1

I am also on 1 x intuition and 2 x transmute artifact. With the back-up plan in my deck of the helm-leyline combo, transmute is really good at finding my helm. I'm still not convinced of the intuition either but occasionally when you can play it with a welder on board it's really good.

I'm still on a Grixis list with 1 Darreti and 2 Tezzeret (UB) in the main and have really been liking this list. I bet I win a third of my games by just ultimating Tezzeret. I've also been playing a couple copies of Collective Brutality in my SB and have really liked it. These could possibly be k.command as well but the 1 x mana cheaper is the targeted hand removal is preferable right now. I won a game last night where I had a leyline and welder on board and pitched the helm in my hand to collective brutality, got to see their hand and then welded in helm and won on the spot. The interactions of this deck are so much fun.

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What did you cut for 2 collective in sideboard? The notion thief and witch card?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cyanhur

What did you cut for 2 collective in sideboard? The notion thief and witch card?

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I actually just cut the two flusterstorm. I'd only being them in against storm and they would just get stripped. The brutalities are more proactive and generally better in most other match ups. Besides, notion thief had just been too much fun. He has actually just taken over a couple games for me now.

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Could this deck abuse the new induced amnesia card? Amnesia targeting yourself and then blowing it up for value.

4 painters servant
3 grindstone
3 tezzeret

4 abjure
4 fow
4 reb
2 pyroblast
3 non artifact pyroclasm

3 perilous research
3 induced amnesia
4 brainstorm

23 mana sources