[Deck] Rabid Wombat - Mono-White Control

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Originally Posted by Jak.

I would definitely cut furnaces. They are just too slow and different GY hate would be better.

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but unlike other gy hate we can just sac furnace to draw a card. also it helps vs one of the most popular decks - ******** (for ex. sometimes i removed cards from my gy to stop tarmo if i didnt have removal). and its second ability can remove loam, genesis, squee, dragon, scarab, any peace of iggi combo or any card we dont like if opp uses witness even if he have a lot of different card in his grave.

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Originally Posted by Jak.

I also don't think Scarab should be a problem. Just save one of your Swords to Plowshares and remove it from the game.

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they can sacrifise it in response to stp. i can kill it only resolving abeyanse before stp/shards (but if my opp isnt stupid he wiil sac scarab in resp to abeyance), or with furnace or humility in play (but he can sac deed to deal with these cards).

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Originally Posted by dude 666

First off, I cut the bandages from my list, and I think you should do the same. This deck does not need a reach through mists, all the other cyclers actually serve some kind of function or create virtual card advantage.

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bandages serve some kind of function too. really. i didnt play bandages earlier (i had 2 vengeances and 2 red runes instead of therm) and tested this deck vs goblins a lot. so this matchup wasnt great. it was mb 60-40 or even 50-50 for me. then i added bandages and didnt lose vs goblins yet. bandage doesnt only stops lakey for a turn if i havent stp, its makes shards better. thats why i think bandage is useful not only against goblins but against all decks using creatures. i dont use wrath because smtg like bandage+stp+wing shards during my opp`s combat phase isnt worse against nearly all creature decks (and is better vs landstill). but unlike wrath bandage isnt dead against combodecks because we can just cycle it.

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Originally Posted by dude 666

I agree with Jak on the cycle lands. I used to run them, but found them to be too great of a liability. Just stick to the basics.

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i use 18 lands and its ok. steppes are nearly always just reach through mists that doesnt make my shards better. so i think i can cut em all adding mb only 1 additional plains. but in theory they can be good vs decks with geddons, red dreams, sinkholes and vindicates... dont know.

so guys what do u think about adding 1 beacon, why do u use wrath of god if u know such card as akroma's vengeance and what are abolishes/disenchants for in ur main decks?

I realize you're from Russia, but that's no reason not to capitalize where appropriate (proper nouns, beginning of sentences, etc.) - Bardo

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Originally Posted by ykpon

bandages serve some kind of function too. really. i didnt play bandages earlier (i had 2 vengeances and 2 red runes instead of therm) and tested this deck vs goblins a lot. so this matchup wasnt great. it was mb 60-40 or even 50-50 for me. then i added bandages and didnt lose vs goblins yet. bandage doesnt only stops lakey for a turn if i havent stp, its makes shards better. thats why i think bandage is useful not only against goblins but against all decks using creatures. i dont use wrath because smtg like bandage+stp+wing shards during my opp`s combat phase isnt worse against nearly all creature decks (and is better vs landstill). but unlike wrath bandage isnt dead against combodecks because we can just cycle it.


so guys what do u think about adding 1 beacon, why do u use wrath of god if u know such card as akroma's vengeance and what are abolishes/disenchants for in ur main decks?

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I feel beacon has no place in the deck because it costs too much mana. If aggro is giving you that much trouble, you'd be better off running pulse of the fields instead.

Wrath of God is good because its usually 2 or more for 1. The example you gave "bandage + stp +wing shards" is 3 cards to get rid of 4 creatures (and draw a card). That cost 5 mana, whereas Wrath costs 4 mana and it would kill those 4 creatures ( or possibly more) by using just one card. Goblins is no longer the force it used to be, so running one card for it is not worth it. If you are having that much trouble with goblins, run RoP:Red, as it handles goblins, burn, and red thresh.

Bandage should not be cut. It may not be the biggest bomb in the deck, but preventing lackey damage or just rifling through your deck to find answers is great. Plus it is great with Wing Shards. Wing Shards is a bomb, do not underestimate it. Going Bandage into Wingshards is great to get around counters.

I do have a question though. What are peoples thoughts an Samurai of the Pale Curtain. I have been using Tormod's Crypt, but the two together would be really good. I am just having trouble finding room in my SB. Right now My SB is

4 Crypt
4 True Believer
4 Razor Golem
3 Jotun Grunt

So SotPC would go well with the man plan. I just think it would be better with both. Maybe cut Grunts? But he is fat, so I don't know. Ideas?

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Originally Posted by Jak.

Bandage should not be cut. It may not be the biggest bomb in the deck, but preventing lackey damage or just rifling through your deck to find answers is great. Plus it is great with Wing Shards. Wing Shards is a bomb, do not underestimate it. Going Bandage into Wingshards is great to get around counters.

I do have a question though. What are peoples thoughts an Samurai of the Pale Curtain. I have been using Tormod's Crypt, but the two together would be really good. I am just having trouble finding room in my SB. Right now My SB is

4 Crypt
4 True Believer
4 Razor Golem
3 Jotun Grunt

So SotPC would go well with the man plan. I just think it would be better with both. Maybe cut Grunts? But he is fat, so I don't know. Ideas?

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I don't like Samurai because it shuts off your main engine, Eternal Dragon, and it is only good against Ichorid, it does nothing to help your combo matchup. If you are going the man plan, then samurai could feasibly replace Crypt, because Crypt is very weak in this deck.

On another note, I don't like Bandage in this deck, not Wing Shards. Wing Shards is ridiculously good, and it is a 4-of in my deck. Not liking Bandage does not mean I do not like Wing Shards either, I just think there are much better things than Bandage to be played in the deck. Oh, and please, would people stop saying "turn 1 bandage on lackey is the omgzorzzz", as it does not happen nearly often enough, and running one card as mainboard hate against one card in an already favorable matchup is not justification for running that card (I may have went OD on the pronouns there, sorry).

I am just saying that Bandage on Lackey is good. It is there more for the storm and the draw. You know how people used to play Secluded Steppe for the draw, Bandage is is like that but a ton better adding storm, not setting us back on lands, and has the bonus to prevent. Those are my reasons to play it.

@ SotPC shutting of Eternal Dragon. Does it matter? You go for the man plan, so you don't need to get out 6 lands. It also hurts Breakfast and right now those are 2 of the best combo decks in the format.

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Originally Posted by dude 666

I don't like Samurai because it shuts off your main engine, Eternal Dragon, and it is only good against Ichorid, it does nothing to help your combo matchup. If you are going the man plan, then samurai could feasibly replace Crypt, because Crypt is very weak in this deck.

On another note, I don't like Bandage in this deck, not Wing Shards. Wing Shards is ridiculously good, and it is a 4-of in my deck. Not liking Bandage does not mean I do not like Wing Shards either, I just think there are much better things than Bandage to be played in the deck. Oh, and please, would people stop saying "turn 1 bandage on lackey is the omgzorzzz", as it does not happen nearly often enough, and running one card as mainboard hate against one card in an already favorable matchup is not justification for running that card (I may have went OD on the pronouns there, sorry).

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First of all RTFC please. Samurai only stops permanents from going to the graveyard so Eternal Dragon is only affected when it is in play and your opponent can deal 5 damage to it or otherwise destroy it.

Second stop cutting Cyclers from the deck! This is not directed at anyone but is meant to be a reminder.
The only thing that makes this deck better than random monowhite control number 517 is the fact that it can dig through the library much faster and find lands and bombs more reliably than other contenders except for (imho) IBA's latest creation "The Mighty Quinn" that uses an Enlightened Tutor Toolbox plus Snow drawengine.
If you reduce this deck to just some good control cards you might as well splash blue for real counterspells instead of Abeyance or Gilded Light and play Landstill.
Seriously don't even think about taking out most of the cyclers and calling it Wombat. It just isn't anymore without the cycling engine.

Third concerning Wrath of God, yeah, you should absolutely be playing some of them as they are just such a good catch all answer to creatures. However Humility still is a huge bomb against a lot of decks. Especially those that are resilient to Wrath (Cephalid Breakfast, Goblins, Survival come to mind). So I'd try a split of Humilities and Wrath.
Anyway you should remember that Wombat is at its heart a metagame deck built to hate on creature based decks with the drawback of rolling over to combo. Devoting so many slots against decks that may still run you over because your clock is too slow for the hate cards to matter (best example Solidarity which can play around them all day without breaking a sweat) may be futile.

edit: Once more for emphasis Samurai of the Pale Curtain stops Permanents from going to the graveyard. It does Nothing against playing Instants and Sorceries, Cycling, Dredging, Milling or Discarding. It is still good against Dredge because they don't get Zombietokens and their Ichorids don't come back after the first reanimation. Sadly it is bad against most other forms of graveyardbased decks as they can get around it so easy.
edit2: reading is in fact tech. @ykpon You already stated that there won't be many combo decks and you don't run Runes because Burn is not a concern so may I suggest dropping a Gilded Light for Humility number 4 and another one for Wrath or Vengeance? Maybe replace the last 2 Lights with 2 Runes and hope to not run into Tendrils too much (as I already noted earlier you have to hope that anyway).

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Originally Posted by dude 666

I feel beacon has no place in the deck because it costs too much mana. If aggro is giving you that much trouble, you'd be better off running pulse of the fields instead.

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hm u didnt read my first post. i dont need beacon vs fast aggrodecks. i need smtng that can help me against milling myself by cycling vs decks that can deal with all my threats like loam.

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Originally Posted by Silverdragon

@ykpon You already stated that there won't be many combo decks and you don't run Runes because Burn is not a concern so may I suggest dropping a Gilded Light for Humility number 4 and another one for Wrath or Vengeance? Maybe replace the last 2 Lights with 2 Runes and hope to not run into Tendrils too much (as I already noted earlier you have to hope that anyway).

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i expect only 1-2 solidarity decks there but also some belchers and iggy. unlike solidarity these mu's are winnable but we need such cards like abeyance and light. and lights arent only vs tendrils, freeze and belcher. it also helps against discard and burn and can pump our shards. so i dont want to cut lights. mb steppes or even faiths but not lights.
humility number 4? i think 3of is more than enough.
did anyone test wombat vs burn? i dont need runes vs goblins but mb we cant win without em vs burn? i didnt test this mu yet and i think some people will play burn cuz its cheap and quite effective. so i need ur help)
i still cant understand why do u think wrath is better than vengeance? i want to believe u because i have wraths and havent any vengeances irl but i cant^^

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Originally Posted by ykpon

hm u didnt read my first post. i dont need beacon vs fast aggrodecks. i need smtng that can help me against milling myself by cycling vs decks that can deal with all my threats like loam.


i expect only 1-2 solidarity decks there but also some belchers and iggy. unlike solidarity these mu's are winnable but we need such cards like abeyance and light. and lights arent only vs tendrils, freeze and belcher. it also helps against discard and burn and can pump our shards. so i dont want to cut lights. mb steppes or even faiths but not lights.
humility number 4? i think 3of is more than enough.
did anyone test wombat vs burn? i dont need runes vs goblins but mb we cant win without em vs burn? i didnt test this mu yet and i think some people will play burn cuz its cheap and quite effective. so i need ur help)
i still cant understand why do u think wrath is better than vengeance? i want to believe u because i have wraths and havent any vengeances irl but i cant^^

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If Loam deck are giving you that much trouble, 4x Phyrexian Furnace should be good enough, other than that, you shouldn't deck yourself. Can you be specific about which matchups you deck yourself against?

Humility as a 3-of should be enough, but wraths are still needed. Bandage isn't gonna save you against fast aggro decks, wrath will. Akroma's Vengeance is good, but not against fast aggro decks, I usually run 3-4 wraths and 2 Vengeances.

Keep the lights, they are useful against many matchups, plus they cycle.

Lights, Faiths, and Runes are all very good against burn. Pulse of the fields is also good.

I have played this deck in some tournaments (back when Survival and Landstill were about 50% of the field here) so I do have experience with it.
There are lots of different Loamdecks. RG AggroLoam and TerraGeddon are probably the most problematic because they take away lots of your lands. If you expect a lot of those play Sacred Ground or another deck ;)
Against Removal like Deed and Explosives Eternal Dragon is usually good enough to bait. If the Sweeper isn't in play yet you can cycle Decree for a lot end of their turn and swing during your turn and/or keep Abeyance back to get through multiple times in case they might be holding the sweeper. Generally you are looking to use Dragon to draw out mass removal and weaken their creaturebase by trading with their critters, meanwhile assemble 10 or more mana and kill before they know what hit them. All a question of patience.
Gilded Light is bad against Discard decks because it can't safe you from first turn Duress. Because of the rest of your meta as you describe it I won't count on many Discarddecks anyway.
Burn is a coinflip with or without the Lights. I have won my fair share of matches against Burn and lost some. The problem here is again your slow clock. All Gilded Light does is buy you one more turn. Typically you just try to race burn before your opponent naturally draws enough spells to get through your defenses. Gilded Light actually only trades 1:1 here, Renewed Faith almost always goes 2:1 and RoP means easymode.
Wrath is not strictly better than Vengeance in your build since you lack maindeck Disenchant effects. Anyway what makes Wrath so good is that it is only 4 mana, meaning you are able to cast it faster and it is easier to cast multiple spells during one turn, for example Abeyance -> Wrath against Thresh. Cannot be regenerated might also come in handy against Loxodon Hierarch and other "randomness".
Concerning Humility against the decks you need it you really want 4 in your deck. Especially against Survival it can be critical to get one to stick however as you do have 31 cyclers it is easy to find so the only real concern is removal in the form of Krosan Grip, Naturalize or similar cards. I think you are right it isn't that important. Maybe I'm comparing your list too much with my old outdated lists.

edit: btw I played this deck against lots of Landstill and I was never in danger of not being able to draw a card and lose. Even Landstill kills you before that happens (or loses because it can't draw a card). I can't see how you'd deck yourself against a Loamdeck that basically draws 3 cards every turn (Dredge).

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Originally Posted by Bardo

I realize you're from Russia, but that's no reason not to capitalize where appropriate (proper nouns, beginning of sentences, etc.)

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im sorry, its smtng like my style. but if its difficult for nonrussians to read it ill stop it.

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Originally Posted by Silverdragon

Burn is a coinflip with or without the Lights. I have won my fair share of matches against Burn and lost some. The problem here is again your slow clock. All Gilded Light does is buy you one more turn. Typically you just try to race burn before your opponent naturally draws enough spells to get through your defenses. Gilded Light actually only trades 1:1 here, Renewed Faith almost always goes 2:1 and RoP means easymode.

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I played burn a little and I think resolving 2nd or even 3rd turn rune is autowin because really a few burn players have anarchy in their sb now. But I also think no need to play rune md, mb Ill find 2-4 slots in sb for this matchup (Im afraid I wont bye 4 chants^^).

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Originally Posted by Silverdragon

Wrath is not strictly better than Vengeance in your build since you lack maindeck Disenchant effects. Anyway what makes Wrath so good is that it is only 4 mana, meaning you are able to cast it faster and it is easier to cast multiple spells during one turn, for example Abeyance -> Wrath against Thresh. Cannot be regenerated might also come in handy against Loxodon Hierarch and other "randomness".

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I know wrath is very good card etc. But I dont think I need more removal in this deck. I played against goblins a lot and lost only 1 match of mb 10 or 12 because of heavy screw g1 and starting g3 w/o stp or bandage. I also played vs threshold (ug and ugw ones) about 5 times and didnt meet any troubles killing their creatures. U say about abeyance+wrath against Thresh but abeyance+wrath would be better because it costs 1 mana less and Thresh nearly never have more than 2-3 creatures in play (and i also have stp). So I like wrath of god but I dont like more than 8 cards of removal in this deck because 8 is enough number for me against these decks. To cut shards or swords? Dont think so really.

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Originally Posted by Silverdragon

edit: btw I played this deck against lots of Landstill and I was never in danger of not being able to draw a card and lose. Even Landstill kills you before that happens (or loses because it can't draw a card). I can't see how you'd deck yourself against a Loamdeck that basically draws 3 cards every turn (Dredge).

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I think Ure right here. I really met this trouble against only one deck (It was bgw and consisted of top+fetchlands/sakuras, hymns, deeds, stps, duresses, damnations and some good creatures) - I lost 0-2 decking myself in both games, he always had damnation or deed for tokens and stp or extirpate for dragons, if he diddnt he just shuffled his deck to get cards he needed. I dont think such deck will be popular but I dont want to meet this trouble again vs any deck. mb its already paranoia =)

ps argh i hate these Big Letters...

So I might as well post how I did in our weekly legacy event at the Batcave. I was playing my list of Wombat and tied for first with Volt. Anyways here is the list.

Lands-20
20 Plains

Win-6
3 Eternal Dragon
3 Decree of Justice

Combo Hate-8
4 Orim's Chant
4 Abeyance

Creature Hate-15
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Wing Shards
4 Wrath of God
3 Humility

Other Goodies-11
4 Bandage
4 Renewed Faith
3 Abolish

SB
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 True Believer
4 Razor Golem
3 Jotun Grunt

Out of the list, my favorite part about it was the SB. I went 4 and 0 when I SBed. 1 and 3 when I didn't.

Round 1-Mindslaver/Cludpost Vesuva deck.
He got the lock on me game one when I couldn't draw an Abolish at all. Game 2 I SBed in everything and go 2nd turn True Believer, 3rd turn Golem, and 4th turn Grunt. I win pretty easily. Game 3 I do the same and attack with a lone Believer for a while, holding him back with Chants and abeyances. I end up getting 2 Golems and finish.

Round 2-Glimpse Combo
He beats me first game pretty easily when I don't see a Chant or Abeyance. Game 2 I bring it all in except the Crypts. I keep in mass removal. He goes for the comb like 3rd turn or something and I abeyance him. He leaves out all of his creatures in play. I try to WoG him later and he Scapegoats. later on he draws Glimpse and tries to combo out. He gets a large enought storm and has 9 mana in his pool and I Chant him. Then I am able to finish him off with Grunts and Golems. Game 3 was quick. 2nd turn Believer FTW.

Round 3-Counterslivers (the newer version)
The first game I hold him back for a while. The big play was that he Thoughtseized me and took a Chant? (or a Decree). I then end up top decking Humility. I play Abeyance and then Humiltiy. He scoops with no outs to it. Game 2 happened the same way, but it was much longer. I end up doing the same thing and topdeck a Humility after a Seize (I was lucky). I play it after baiting counters with Wingshards and WoG. In the end I am down to like 2 life and he has 6. I have 9 soldier tokens out there and would win next turn. He then says I hope I draw one of my SB cards. And he did. Engineered Plague. He goes on to win when I have hardly any Win cons left. I think only 1 Dragon. 2 of them got StP. He is then able to beat me down with 1/1s. We decide to split in the end. They were long ass games.

I end up getting 12 bucks in SC and buy 3 packs. Get a Garruk and trade it for Jace.

So I have to conclude that Orims Chant main is great. Gives me another turn against some decks to topdeck a card, big help for storm combo, and is great to get a wrath through or something. The man plan is solid. Speeding up the clock is great against control decks while taking out the dead cards. Anyways, I will write up how I do tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Jak.

So I have to conclude that Orims Chant main is great. Gives me another turn against some decks to topdeck a card, big help for storm combo, and is great to get a wrath through or something.

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Chant is great but i think its great card for ur sideboard not for main deck. I think it should be replaced with gilded light cuz light is good against combo decks too but also helps against hymns/duresses/echoes and burn.
And can anybody explain me golems sb? believer is good, glowrider and grunt are ok too but such absurd 3/4 for 3.. If u want to be agressive g2 vs combo decks mb to play faster creatures like isamaru/lions?
And, Jak., do u really need those 3 abolishes in Main deck?


I have tested my build a lot against burn, angel stompy, black survival and bg loam lately:
burn: We really need rune in this matchup. We cant lose with rune in play but we lose most of games we didnt install it (w/o runes its 30-70 mb). After sb they can have pithing needles and rarely cursed scrolls so we should keep our disenchants/returns/abolishes. Just replace humility and all removal spells but stp with our sb creatures.
angel stompy: Matchup is bad cuz of 1 card which really hurts us - Armageddon. If we keep 1-2 lands in our hand we still can rehabilitate ourselves with all our dragons and cantrip. But anyway they are faster so its like 90-10 for them after resolving geddon. The only good thing is that they play only 2 (sometimes 3) geddons in their deck.
survival with recurring nightmare: This deck is easier to beat than RGSA cuz it isnt so fast. In both matchups humility wins us a game but against this version we can win with just a phyrexian furnace.
bg loam: i really hate top/cycling lands+life from the loam combo that doesnt let me to remove their life with furnace/crypt/morningtide etc. I know I can deal with it after resolving abeyance but I need smtng else... help me^^

ps What do u think about that lorwyn card, Austere Command?
sorcery for 4WW: Choose two — Destroy all artifacts; or destroy all enchantments; or destroy all creatures with converted mana cost 3 or less; or destroy all creatures with converted mana cost 4 or greater.
Can it replace wrath/vengeance?

and what do u think about cutting renewed faiths for smtng more useful (furnace, light, vengeance, rune etc)? its good only vs burn but in that mu rune is better (and vs goblins too).

Okay, so I have been using and testing this deck a lot. I played it in a tourney one week and tied for first and the next week got dead last. I then noticed something; almost all my wins were postboard. The only time I won preboard games in the 2 weeks I played was because I resolved a Humility and they scooped or I went and resolved a quick dragon or decree for beat down. I barely won those games still. So this made me think. My SB, which is the man plan, had a fast clock and won, whereas my MD was slow and I just couldn't keep Wrathing every turn, because I eventually ran out. So I need a way to win that isn't affected by Humility or my sweepers. Hmmm... manlands are the obvious choice. SO here is a list for Irish Wombat that I threw together.

Lands
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Nantuko Monastery
8 Plains
1 Forest

Creatures
3 Eternal Dragon
2 Krosan Tusker

Spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Bandage
4 Abeyance
4 Renewed Faith
4 Wing Shards
2 Krosan Grip
4 Wrath of God
3 Humility
3 Decree of Justice

SB
4 True Believer
4 Orim's Chant
3 Gilded Light
4 Tormod's Crypt

Thoughts on the build?

So, has anyone tested man lands in the deck? I think that they could be awesome with Humility and provide a faster clock. So thoughts?

I played such build yesterday at russian legacy champs:
20 plains
1 flagstones of trokair (dont know why not to play one cuz its bad target for wasteland and gives us a chance against geddon/dreams/pox)
4 dragon
4 decree
4 stp
4 wing shards
3 humility
2 rune of prored
2 akromas vengeance
4 phyrexian furnace
4 gilded light
4 bandage
4 abeyance
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4 true believer
4 glowrider
3 return to dust
2 chant
1 rune of prored
1 wrath of god (played rune and wrath because didn't find 2 more chants)

round 1. My opp played lorwyn precon so 2-0 =)

round 2. bgrw aggroloam, winner of previous legacy champs. One of the worst mus and against really good player. 0-2

round 3. ugrw ******** with isochron scepters. Usually this mu isn't hard but scepeter+bolt became a problem for me g1. Didn't find rune/vengeance and lost. Then won g2 and g3. Best card in this mu was no doubt wing shards. 2-1.

round 4. gw elves/trinity. 2 times I lost against 2-3 rishadan ports with full hands of removal... 1-2, drop.

I think I ll return renewed faiths instead of furnaces or lights because I often wished light in hand to be faith. Also I think I ll make little black splash (1 scrubland for dragons, 3-4 extirpates sb) to deal with loam and to help against some combodecks and landstill. What other cards can help me if I splash black?

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Originally Posted by Jak.

Lands
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Nantuko Monastery
8 Plains
1 Forest

Creatures
3 Eternal Dragon
2 Krosan Tusker

Spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Bandage
4 Abeyance
4 Renewed Faith
4 Wing Shards
2 Krosan Grip
4 Wrath of God
3 Humility
3 Decree of Justice

SB
4 True Believer
4 Orim's Chant
3 Gilded Light
4 Tormod's Crypt

Thoughts on the build?

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I've been playing a VERY similar deck to this (read that I always say how good IBAs Irish Wombat is). I was also wrong about Bandage, the card is very good. Playing Grip Maindeck is a very good choice.

However, I have a few suggestions:

- Crucible of Worlds: If you have it and a Fetchland you will never miss a land drop again for the rest of the game. So it does the same thing like E Dragon , but you don't have to pay 7 Mana every time you search a land, but only 3 Mana one time (I played 6-7 Fetchlands and 2 Wastelands to take maximum advantage of it). You also play Factories (I did not), so that is one more reason for Crucible.
It is also randomly strong against Landstill or 43 lands and game breaking against Staxx. I've been cutting Dragon totally because it is slow like hell with Humility and inferior to Crucible in Land Search and deck thin.

- Regrowth: that card is SO good. Turn 2 it gets you a needed fetchland back or a Sword against Aggro and in the lategame it is usually Demonic Tutor.

- Phyrexian Furnace: helps against a lot of deck
Ceph Breakfast, Loamdecks, Ichorid/IGGy (though you lose G1, it is nice to have double Yard hate in G2 and G3) and nearly every control mirror.

Could you please post your list, Tao? I really don't know what to cut for Regrowth and I'd like to see your Manabase with Crucible, thanks :smile:

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Originally Posted by ykpon

What other cards can help me if I splash black?

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Skeletal Scrying is a pretty nice hand-refiller for a deck that can keep a high life total. Also, Engineered Explosives becomes a lot better when it can be set at two.

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Originally Posted by ykpon

I played such build yesterday at russian legacy champs:
20 plains
1 flagstones of trokair (dont know why not to play one cuz its bad target for wasteland and gives us a chance against geddon/dreams/pox)
4 dragon
4 decree
4 stp
4 wing shards
3 humility
2 rune of prored
2 akromas vengeance
4 phyrexian furnace
4 gilded light
4 bandage
4 abeyance
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4 true believer
4 glowrider
3 return to dust
2 chant
1 rune of prored
1 wrath of god (played rune and wrath because didn't find 2 more chants)

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I don't mean to be rude, but that list is just bad. No wrath main? It may not be effective as it used to be, but you should still be running 3-4. I also feel that running 4 dragon is just too much. You only want one early and they get clunky when you have 2 because you still need business spells to survive. 2-3 Disenchants or Abolishes help alot against random decks. I recommend abolish because it is better against combo. Having the ability to destroy LED is awesome and can set them back. I think these updates will help you out because your list seems out of date.

@Tao
I did try Crucible and it was a ton better than dragon, but have just stayed with him because he is a recurable win condition. I doubt that matters anymore because Crucible makes your other win cons recurable, so I will probably make the switch. I like Regrowth and will test it out. I have played with Furnace a lot in the early days of the deck. I never liked it. GY decks like Thresh could keep a huge yard still and I doubt it would hurt any of the combos because counters and needle would come in from both decks. Well, because of that, I have tried a 3 color build with Extirpates and Haunting Echoes as a win con. It has worked amazingly fixing up some really rough MUs and providing an awesome win. I will post a list if anybody wants to see, when I get the chance.

Oh and from my list, -1 Plains, +1 Baseiju, Who Shelters All. Crazy good card when you need a wrath to resolve against Thresh or Counterslivers.

NECRO!!!

Well, with Runed Halo coming out, I have gotten really excited about playing this deck again. Combo and creature hate that is actually good creature hate. The card is nuts and just makes the opponents draws worse.

The biggest thing I like about it is that it is a permanent answer like Humility. Against decks like Survival, Swords a goyf just won't do it. Beinb able to stop all future Tarmogoyfs is huge!

Another thing I dislike about older versions is the cycle draw engine. You end up wasting a lot of mana to just dig. I wanted ways to get card advantage because I had the manipulation when I added Top. I added Harmonize because it fit the bill. In the splash color and is +2 CA.

I have been playing around a lot with my Wg Wombat and this is the core.

4 Mishra's Factory
3 Nantuko Monastery
4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
7 Plains
2 Forest

3 Eternal Dragon
3 Decree of Justice
3 Sensei's Diving Top
4 Harmonize

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Runed Halo
4 Wing Shards
4 Wrath of God
3 Humility

That leaves 4 slots. Orim's Chant, Oblivion Ring, Krosan Tusker, etc. I like Oblivion Ring because it is so versatile. Either Oblivion Ring or Krosan Grip is what I like to play to deal with any random like Blood Moon hurting my win cons, Chalice, CB, etc.

The SB is strong to with the addition of Whell for GY hate. Ialso need more combo hate like Orim's Chant, Abeyance, Chalice. My current SB is:

4 Chalice ofthe Void
4 Orim's Chant
4 Abeyance
3 Wheel of Sun and Moon

Lots of combo hate! I really don't care about aggro because Ialready beat that. I beat Thresh and other aggro-control easily. Combo is tough, so I have a lot of hate. Control is difficult. I really rely on my MD to beat it by just having uncounterable win-cons and then SB into the timewalks.

I think this deck has a lot of potential with the new cards and its ability to change.