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If you play 4 Cavern, 2 Mox, 2-3 Karakas and maybe some Adarkar Wastes you can play Displacer and it's generally better in *most* matchups than Reshaper.
Reshaper only has the edge over Mimic in matchups vs. stuff like Jund or Shardless where they have lots of spot removal and the games become grindy and card-advantage-dependent.
I'm personally playing the white version with the aforementioned cards for the foreseeable future.
@cab0747
q1 - It was weekly local (about 17 living being). Well, my meta is pretty well developed. All current DTB are present, Lands, SnS, 12 Post (UG), Reanimator, D&T too, even MUD guy shows up from time to time along with NicFit and such. I would like to have at least shot against them.
Revoker - has many targets, Deathrite Shamans in particular, one often does not have Warping Wail for them
Displacer - all around, in every game against Goyfs which are inevitebly going to be 5/6 at minimum against this deck -> board stall -> bad news for Eldrazi decks, also answer flipped Delvers, Anglers, Batterskulls etc. Not even mentioning those obvious spaghetti monsters or tricks with our owns TKS, Metamorph etc. He just open windows, which is often, just what the deck need to finish the game.
Endbringer - again all around, diversify my options against needles/revokers, also respectable body which Mimic can work with.
These are not some fringe situations, that is quite common at least from my experience. One does not have every time CotV @1 and is forced to play "fair".
I do not play online.
q2 - Sure I am thinking about Crucible, as MD.Ghost suggested, as it also open waste lock line in plans, helps you "cycle" City etc. I am going to try it.
As for Revokers, they did not performed well - in matches I played, hence I was thinking along the lines, +1x Crucible + 2-3 x Lodestone Golems in place of 3x Revokers - they will be in sideboard (not sure what to cut for 3rd Lodestone Golem) - but it is just for experiment - it might end up as a sideboard plan for matchups where Revokers do next to nothing. However they are pretty often relevant, so I might just try Crucible.
q3 - Well, that would be more Barook's area of expertise, however I do not like it for exactly what he wrote just below your post - slow and cost green. Adding green to already "two" colored deck (colorless + white - requirements) might be too much. Do not get me wrong, World Breaker would be (is) awesome, but I think it just introduce us to more land screws and/or slow downs. With this in mind, against Bridge, Blood Moons decks, there are those 2x Oblivion Rings, Ratchet Bomb and All is Dust as only outs. White has one of the best hate cards, hence I opt for white with Plains. (my SB is far from optimal)
Surely Endbringer is not the main plan against bridge, but he is/was only one capable off in main after the bridge hits the table. He is an out in stall games, drawing cards, killing, stopping attacks. Also he is just a bad ugly guy on our side.
@Cire
Best idea how to play World Breakers I have seen, I like it better then Endbringers on paper. Just the thing is, no basics, and is slower (this deck has next to no interaction cards). In case Trini vs Thorn are both viable, Trini is a bit more disruptive against creature decks (for instance D&T - they will not have always vials and we play also revokers) but hurts you too in other matchups, both have it's merits. Your idea is something I would like to test as well, but will stay on white at least for a while.
Displacer is colored eldrazi, and does go in the same deck as Temple. That deck will look significantly different than colorless eldrazi; colored lists trade-off reliably landing t1 lock pieces for displacer control. Very different mechanisms of obtaining wins with some overlap on thorn/chalice openers. I want to say barook is the one to talk to about displacers.
Displacer just seems low impact for the cost (if you're not playing Drowner/Dreamweaver, etc.), when Reshaper or Metamorph are good enough in that slot.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
If I'm incorporating a light splash for extra utility, I'd either go with black via Urborg, to reduce life loss on Dismember/Tomb, combo with Eye, and for some SB cards like Leyline, OR green via Elvish Spirit Guide and possibly a Forest or two to play World Breaker (which is at least an out to a resolved Blood Moon or Ensnaring Bridge)
I'm not arguing for reshapper - I just included it in the skeleton (and more specifically in the mid-size option) because that's what people are doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
If I was going to make a list instead of a skeleton that includes all the options I myself would probably argue that this might be something worth testing for a variety of reasons (Worldbreakers for bridges, Displacer+TKS, jitte to offset life loss, Metamorph for Eldrazi/Lock Pieces, Mishra's Factory to carry jitte, etc):
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Wasteland
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Urborg
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Warping Wail
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Jitte
2 World Breaker
2 Metamorph
2 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Mox Diamond
1 Dismember
1 Endbringer
And that is still over 60 by two cards. Running 7 sources for green and white not including Karakas (Mox, Horizon and Caverns). Can't really say if it is enough or not until I cut two more cards and start testing.
Ok, so dumb question (and since we don;t have a primer, I am not really too afraid to ask) what MUs does Winter Orb come in?
I am a little lost on it's purpose here.
Early tec for Miracles or other ramp decks. Dring it in against Lands just to piss us off too. We can sometimes get around it with Mox, but once you have Orb and Thorns on the table it's a fucking nightmare for us. Same for other control decks.
Against Blood Moon, Orb, Back to Basics and whatever a couple of Kozilek Channeler and Mox Diamond seal the deal.. that + 1untap + 1 Mox is a 5 mana Eldrazi per turn each turn.. more than enough.
Also let's consider Displacer and Mimic against Orbs decks. you just 3 mana to "duplicate" a fattie into Mimic and win with just the board
So I've been pretty set on the colorless shops/stompy build since the spoilers, but something I've also been tossing around since then was a more controlling version using displacer+Armageddon
I played Armageddon stax for a short period and while it was definitely lacking, displacer and the eldrazi lands might help finish it off. Lodestone followed up by Armageddon was almost always gg, but rebuilding if it wasn't always caused issues.
Food for thought. Hopefully I'll have some time to do some theory crafting this weekend if anyone is interested.
Also, Gerry T put an article up on scg, buy its premium. If anyone has premium would you mind copying the transcript here? Do not do this please. Quick summaries are fine. Dice.
From the preview, it seems to be about how bad mox diamond was
That's pretty much illegal and a breach of copyrights.. not sure the Moderators would be happy.
This said: if artifact and enchantments hate is too much to deal with.
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Mox Diamond
4 Horizon Canopy (for WorldBreaker, Displacer or card advantage in the worst case scenario)
and 3 Krosan Grip in SB
GerryT shitting all over mox diamond, thanks god.
I have one of those "1 month free Premium" cards at home. If no one gets around to it, I'll use one and let you guys know what he said when I get a chance.
If you're not running KG, I don't think you need the SSG - 6-8 sources of Green (4 Caverns, 2 Diamond, 0-2 Other) are enough for Worldbreaker itself since you are waiting till you have 7 mana open anyway, so around turn 4-5, maybe turn 3 at best. White you probably need more sources closer to 8-9 since you are playing displacer around turn 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Cashed in a premium card for this... Basically the list looks a lot more like the list that Lejay has been using on MODO with some differences in numbers and Karakas/Ghost Quarter instead of Mishra's factory. I'm reluctant to do a list-dump for obvious reasons. I'm pretty stoked to buy in once April rolls around. I've got everything except for the creature-base and the Temples and Eyes-- I'm willing to accept them as SP due to the salty tears of modern players. Mostly I'm just excited to get to use Elvish Spirit Guides in a deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEROorDIE
One thing worth noting is that Gerry has put forward that three is his preferred number of City of Traitors...
Something Painter learnt long ago. They just suck in your openers and in multiples. Unless your running Crucible, then your clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sansian
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEROorDIE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
My bad, I know better, I just got excited
Don't understand the Ghost quarters tbh. What would they be for? Anti-moon tech? Anti-mirror? Anti-lands?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sansian
Lejay's listQuote:
Originally Posted by Sansian
Does he still run a playset of Thorns MD? 3 Cities sound alot more reasonable. I hate Cities, but they're a necessary evil imho.
I also fail to see how Ghost Quarters are supposed to be better than Mishra's Factory.
Might be tech against the mirror?Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook