[Deck] Armageddon Stax

Ok, my list after trial and error of 2 years. Note: I don't think this is the best list right now, I'm still working on a few things, but its the best I've been able to come up with for a deverse metagame.

MD
4 x Flagstones
4 x Ancient Tomb
3 x City of Traitors
4 x Wasteland
2 x Tabernacle
1 x Horizon Canopy
1 x Kor haven
6 x Plains

3 x Exalted Angel
2 x Magus of the Tabernacle
2 x Windborn Muse

4 x Mox Diamond
4 x Crucible
4 x Chalice of the Void
4 x Ghostly Prison
3 x Smokestack
3 x Trinisphere
4 x Armageddon
2 x Cataclysm

SB
4 x Karmic Justice
3 x Pithing Needle
4 x Suppression Field
1 x Trinisphere
3 x Oblivion Ring

A note on Cataclysm is that yes you do often hit as many of your things as you do your opponents, but you are designed to recover faster than they are. Cataclysm also works rather well with ghostly allowing you to cataclysm and still keep 2 prison effects. Decks that cataclysm helps against: Survival, Elves, Affinity, Enchatress. It leaves a lot of decks with one creature and one land left in play. I'm not saying its perfect in every situation but I've been loving my two copies.

So far after my testing, Windborn has been MD, SB, and not in the deck at all. Over time she keeps getting put back in the MD. Often its just nice to have another prison effect when every deck sb's out lots of creature removal for enchant/artifact destruction stuff. It rarely gets hit by EE, because 3 already hits out trini, crucibles, prisons, o rings, and gives you more time to find a geddon against decks that have to deed for 4. Its also nice to stop predator and hippie.

Hi,
do you think that the new planeswalker could fit in a Whitestax deck? The first problem is surely its mana cost. Maybe with just one or two Plateau ( with 4 Mox Diamond) it could be enough to play it.

The first ability fit nicely in White Stax. Just tap the permanent that is treating you. The second ability could be useful against aggro, goblin or elf deck. The last one seems the most promising but I wonder if 4 turns is too long to destroy all opponent lands ?

Let discuss it !

You'd have to spoil it to me, I have no idea what the new plainswalker does.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/...t3sc2ib_EN.jpg

THIS.

Looks like it has potential. I'm willing to test a 2-of in the slot of my Windborn Muse/Moat.

On second thought: I don't think he will survive...

Actually, this is one of the first cards I've seen in a while that may be very worthwhile! It effectively does several things that this deck likes to do, all in one card. And while it may prove to be useless against straight aggro, it is definitely worth testing for its potential many other uses within the format. All-in-all, I think it is worth testing.

-FB...

That card is pure hotsauce, the issue is the red, I suppose. I doubt Mox Diamond is enough to supply the R, I suppose you'd have to start running fetches or whatnot...maybe I'll have to actually attend this prerelease.

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Originally Posted by kidsmokin

That card is pure hotsauce, the issue is the red, I suppose. I doubt Mox Diamond is enough to supply the R, I suppose you'd have to start running fetches or whatnot...maybe I'll have to actually attend this prerelease.

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May I remind you that Flagstones = fetch. Just run 4 Flagstones and 1 Plateau instead of a normal Plains and the splash is settled I think.

I wouldn't count on Flagstones as an automatic fetch. But until they print enemy fetches, I wouldn't expect them to be necessary. Depending on how many Ajani Vengeants you were playing (I will probably start testing at 2), I would expect you to need at least 4-5 Red Sources (6 at most). I count the Diamonds as 1/2 Red source each, you might be able to get away counting Flagstones as some Red source (but I'm not sure how much), and I would probably play 2-3 Plateau and 0-1 Sacred Foundry (depending on how often Extirpate shows up).

-FB...

Seems alot more risky to me, Stax is more Moon-sensitive than I'd like already (ofcourse Moon is slightly a smaller issue when splashign red :cool:). If you'd run 3 Plateaus there's only room for 3-5 plains...seems like cutting it close to me: I still prefer Aura of Silence as an enchantment sweeper in my sideboard, but with such a low Plains-count it wouldn't be effective against the Moon anymore...

Granted, you can't count Flagstones as a red source, but they do help. I also think counting Mox Diamond for 1/2 red source is flawed; I think you can count it more as 2/3. But that's pure speculation ofcourse, only testing can tell. Anyway; by your calculations: 1/2 * 4 = 2. If you count 4 Flagstones as 1 red source, you'll have 3, adding the Plateau you reach 4. Is enough by your standard :)

As I said before: I'll probably test 2 Ajani's and 1 Plateau, and work from there. Minimum changes ftw. Besides, who'd Extirpate the Plateau? Seems more logical to Extirpate Ajani.

Flagstones did kinda pass my mind, and they do fetch a bit. I can see 3-4 Flagstones, 4 Moxen, and 1 Plateau to be serviceable for a splash.

I can see someone pre-emptively Extirpating the Plateau if they overestimate the R splash. Like how you can Extirpate Tropical Island against Thresh and basically get them to scoop, I suspect that's the first thing that'll pass their mind. Of course, when they realize that you're really only splashing for Ajani, then they'll probably just Extirpate Ajani like they should.

I just realized the second ability is Lightning Helix. Wow.

I suppose this means that each Planeswalker from Llorwyn gets shifted? This is a bit OT but that means... WR RU UG GB BW planeswalkers? Therefore the first ability (+X) pertains to the real color (e.g. Ajani's is white, tapping stuff), the second ability (-X) pertains to the enemy color (Ajani's second is burn, which is red, though the lifegain is white...?), and the third ability represents the intersection (Ajani's is land D, which occurs in both). If it works out like that (WR RU UG GB BW) the shifted Jace and Chandra would be the most interesting, I think.

Do you seriously worry about Blood Mood with this deck? I do play 8 basics, normally, which is probably near the top side of anyone on here, but I've never had trouble with Moon. It might slow you down a little bit in certain situations, but I've not had that big a problem with it.

Even under a Moon, you only need 1 white to cast any of your spells (short of Aura which I don't think is a good solution to Moon anyways), so I wouldn't expect to need more than 5 basics (my build) plus 4 Diamonds to function rather as normal.

I assume you are boarding in Aura's for the Dragon Stompy match-up?

-FB...

I'm only running 6 basics, but the only time I really have trouble with bloodmoon in DStompy is when they go mox, tomb, bloodmoon, chalice for zero. I've had that a few times game 2 or 3 when they are on the play and I haven't had a chance to drop my moxen yet. That being said the card looks very very interesting, and I can't wait to try it out and also check out the b/w plainswalker. I've been die'ing to get more cards for w/b braids stax.

The new ajani looks promising on paper, tapping a permanent seems ok... nothing fantastic though but it can help. lighting helix ability is, ok as well to take out siege gangs,sharpshooters,trygon predator confidant factory and problematic low toughness creatures, the last ability however is quite slow..When i want an armageddon effect I usually want it Now and not later, although this is a one sided armageddon, I am quite sure that when this guy reaches 5 counters, he will as fast as possible be dealt with.

This would require a lot of testing. 2-3 plateaus would be good to start with along with the diamond..And if he works out great, Im sure there are some red cards out there that can be incorporated in the sideboard.

However I am itching to see the BW counterpart.

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Originally Posted by Fred Bear

Do you seriously worry about Blood Mood with this deck? I do play 8 basics, normally, which is probably near the top side of anyone on here, but I've never had trouble with Moon. It might slow you down a little bit in certain situations, but I've not had that big a problem with it.

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Well, I once kept a hand with alot of utility in my land against an unknown deck: 1 tabernacle, 1 flagstones, 1 factory and 1 wasteland iirc; turns out the deck I played against dropped turn 1 Magus of the Moon (was DragonStompy indeed, I totally out-sideboarded him though), and he just went for the win. I know we're not completely fucked by Moon, but it still holds us back. It's also one of the reasons Red Stax beats White Stax.

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Originally Posted by Fred Bear

short of Aura which I don't think is a good solution to Moon anyways

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Especially if that Moon effect comes from a Magus :wink: Aura also helps against Jitte's though :smile:

About the planeswalker: I think you should see it more as something that can slow your opponent down a bit, and shoot down an occasional annoyance: a small Goyf, Bob, BoP, Trygon Predator, Piledriver and the like.

I'm not so sure if I'd often use the land-destructing ability, I think I'd sooner draw a Geddon.

This might draw out a few other people, but Red Stax doesn't just beat White Stax - the match is very even. Moon might slow you down, but most Stax pieces do nothing to you (remember we play them). I would be interested to hear why you think Red Stax > White Stax.

I think the thing to remember when testing Ajani, is that it is a utility card. You don't play him and assume you are going to use the land destruction ability. You play him and use the ability(ies) that helps the most. I think 3 activations is his break-even point (2 Ports plus a Lightning Helix = 2WR). If you are going to get that, I think he is worth the mana investment because he'll also attract attacks away from you and counters away from other business spells. My concerns are the board positions you find yourself in where you can't play him (2+ creatures and no Prison/Magus) and the stretched mana base. If his second ability was a Pyroclasm, he'd be an auto-include methinks. On the plus side in addition to 3 useful abilities is that Red offers some interesting sideboard options (Blood Moon is definitely in there).

On a side note - what's with making a mythic rare the pre-release card?!?!? Doesn't that completely devalue it as a collectible when compared to the other mythic rares?

-FB...

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Originally Posted by Fred Bear

Red Stax > White Stax.

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Woa, I say Red Stax beats White Stax, while White Stax obviously is alot more succesful in the format, and therefor White Stax > Red Stax.

The reason I think (know) this, is because Moon hits us alot harder than them and they have Welder to boot. While all our Tabernacle, Armageddon, Prison plans have little to no effect on them. They have a draw-engine: Bottled Cloister, they combine it with Ensnaring Bridge, making sure our creatures will never hit them. To top it off, they kill via Words of War.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fred Bear

On a side note - what's with making a mythic rare the pre-release card?!?!? Doesn't that completely devalue it as a collectible when compared to the other mythic rares?

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Wel, I'm glad, this way I can easily include 2 foil versions, otherwise finding 2 foils of these would be a real pain. On a more side-note: Ajani made me curious about the other white(/black) plainswalker; white black being the combination of vindicate...ah well...one can hope, right :)

Skeggi,

I understand that you were just saying Red beats White, but I don't think that's a fair assessment. Blood Moon is a speed bump while Armageddon is a full on ditch. In my experience, Red Stax is no more difficult than a White Stax mirror. It will be won by whomever abuses their Crucible more.

I don't like to speculate too much on cards... but... if there is a B/W planeswalker... and it has a reasonably costed ability... and that ability destroys target permanent... it will be hard to come up with a reason not to test it. The biggest strike against Vindicate is that it isn't a permanent. (Really, if BG can have Deed why can't BW have some enchantment that targets a single permanent?)

-FB...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fred Bear

if BG can have Deed why can't BW have some enchantment that targets a single permanent?)

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Like.... Oblivion ring, perhaps? It's non-land, though.

Except that Oblivion Ring doesn't destroy anything, it just removes it from the game and then sits waiting to be Gripped or otherwise destroyed. Vindicate as an activated ability of an enchantment (or Planeswalker ability) would be very strong.

-FB...