Yes, and its a cc3 artifact target for Academy Ruins to counter for 3 with CB.
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Yes, and its a cc3 artifact target for Academy Ruins to counter for 3 with CB.
And gives your Goyf +1/+1 when in graveyard, but is not pitchable to force.
Hi folks,
I currently don't have the time to test quite much, so before I waste time with this deck, that might not be the best choice in my meta I wanted to ask you about the following MUs:
Threshold (w / wo CB)
Landstill
Aggro Zoo / Goyfsligh / Gobbos
AggroLoam
THanks in advance!
From what I know, I would say that -Quote:
Originally Posted by rockSTAR
Threshold - awesome matchup. They are light on threats and their CB lock can't effectively stop ITF from recovering, while our CB lock wrecks them.
Landstill - I suppose you mean Uw version, it's basically a good matchup but heavily dependent on players.
Aggro Zoo / Goyfsligh - you can't lose in the war of tempo and if able to survive 3 turns on relatively high life total, the game is yours.
Goblins - CB lock is ineffective, fortunately ITF has quite a lot of sweepers. Still the matchup is quite bad depending mainly on the sideboard to give you proper answers to green men.
Aggro Loam - I cannot give you any advice on this MU, I don't have enough experience with playing against aggro loam although CB lock is pretty effective in stopping Loam engine from what I know.
I'd just like to add that Thresh is still largely a race to get down CB/Top, UWb Landstill will go LD on you which is quite painful if you can't get Loam up, Aggro-Loam can Waste-lock you (again, barring Loam) and Goblins can win with the tempo generated by just 1 Wasteland. Lastly, Goblins resilience to CB (which is not as great as advertised if you can flip for 3, just save Force for Ringleader) also makes them resilient to 2/5 of our sweepers. You want to see 4 Goyfs, 4 StPs and Force their Ringleaders in this matchup, after that it's smooth sailing.
So those are some pessimistic views on those matchups, but with ITF it's like Kevin Garnett: ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!!!!!
All of those matchups are fine, depending on your ability to keep hands that can actually win:
Thresh: Just don't lose to Mongoose + Goyf + getting tempoed out. If they Daze you successfully twice, you're probably going to lose. Just kill their threats. They're pretty threat-light, so it's not the hardest thing ever. You have so much removal, so try to go 1-for-1 with them until you each have two cards, because typically one of your cards will be a trump (recursion land, Intuition, Deed, Oracle), and you win from there.
Landstill: Either you Counterbalance lock them, or the game goes super long and you win with Oracle recursion. You lose by sucking and getting Decree-cycled into getting multiple-counter'd. Just know what they're capable of and don't lose to it.
Goyf Sligh: Counter/Top lock them or lose.
Aggro Loam: Either they Wasteland you a lot and you lose, or you Counter/Top lock them and you win. Pretty simple.
QFT. This weekend in my legacy tourney I beat merfolk with stifle, force, wasteland, and B2B round 1, I thought it was gonna go down hill after I lost the first game, but ITF rallied. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Misplayer
Last Saturday I played ITF in a 42-player tournament to a top4 finish. I beat Canadian Thresh, Dragonstompy, Burn and ProThresh, then dropped a match to Burn. After that I ID'ed with WW just to beat him in the top8.Quote:
Originally Posted by zer0style
I lost to Merfolk due to a absurd mana flood in game 1, in which I saw no Wastelands. Then I punted game 2 by not fetching basics (on the dumb dumb dumb assumption that he had no non-basic hate) and not being able to stop the 2nd FOW-back-up Back to Basics.
This deck is amazing, but I lost a game to burn due to simple Mogg Fanatic + Relic of Progenitus when I had mulliganed into 2x CB, Goyf Witness and 2 lands, on the draw against a still unknown opponent.
SB was
4 Tormod's
3 Pyroblast
1 BEB
3 Engineered Plague
2 Spell Snare
2 Krosan Grip
Tormod's went home untouched.
Nice finish, congratz!Quote:
Originally Posted by bruno_tiete
If I may ask, Spell Snares are for threshold mirror matches? And, were they important? What were you sb'ing them for?
And now for something completely different!
There are decklists of "aggro-ITF" floating around, just FYI this is one of those - http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=25239
Deck was piloted to a T8 finish a few times here and there. Major changes -
addition of Dark Confidant (already recommended by few fellow forum dwellers)
addition of Mox Diamond, making t1 confidant or CB possible - and t1 Confidant backed up by Daze / FoW is good times. Also, heavily increases immunity to moon effects and LD strategies. I already thought 'bout Diamonds a while ago here and there, but never justified cutting Deed to be able to play it. Seems it may not be such a bad thing to do.
Those are things I really like, although they demand further changes to the deck, like cutting Deeds etc. Still, it may be fruitful to at least think about those cards as it may (or may not, but who knows) prove to be the right direction to take the deck.
If you are interested, "Aggro-ITF" is allready discussed here : http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13473Quote:
Originally Posted by Spare Parts
Sideboarding is something that hurts my head every round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spare Parts
This is what I did in the matches played (and I have no clue if's right):
VS Canadian Thresh
- 1 Witness
- 1 Counterspell
+ 2 Spell Snare.
I believe my reasoning was that I cant lose in the late game.
VS Dragonstompy
-4 Counterbalance
-1 Witness
-1 Intuition
+2 Krosan Grip
+3 Hydroblast
+1 BEB
I did it because while CB can lock out 3ccs with relative ease in this matchup, one of them resolved tends to make it all pointless.
Vs Burn
Substitui o seguinte:
-3 Deeds
-2 Explosives
-1 Shackles
+2 Spell Snare
+3 Hydroblast
+1 BEB
Seems pretty obvious: dead weight for cards that stop stuff.
vs NO Thresh
I kept no notes of that game for it was a Feature Match which is still unpublished, but I believe I went:
-1 EExplosives
-1 Witness
+2 Spell Snare
Reasoning would be that I win the late game. Therefore, I will put efforts into getting there.
vs White Weenie
Maindeck does it all. I considered bringing in Plague for "Human", but every card in the main seemed stronger.
vs Merfolk
-1 Etched Oracle
-1 Witness
-1 Intuition
-1 Counterbalance
-1 Pernicious Deed
+3 Engineered Plague
+2 Spell Snare
Plagues were in the SB as additional Dredge and Goblins hate. Still, double plague is Game Over. Spell Snares here were for Standstill.
I am pretty sure I got this wrong, and I would like feedback.
Regarding Spell Snares, the worked as general purpose stop your gimmicks while on the draw. The where there because they are goog against combo, aggro and tempo when you win game 1. The field was too random for me to put specific hate in those last two slots. If I were to play the tournament, at least 1 Plague would be Hydroblast #4.
Despite not being paired once against Ichorid, several were ripping through the top tables. I wouldnt cut back on Crypts.
hey, do yall mind posting your weekly list?
Thoughts about running Acidic Slime in here as a one-of? It's pretty hefty at 5 mana, but it greatly affects the board once he hits play; deathtouch dissuades your Goyf-wielding opponent from swinging, he dodges Counterbalance, and he can kill Counterbalance/Shackles/etc.
that green 5 cc creature doesnt belong....
are ppl still satisfied w/ volrath's stronghold? I have barely used it(i know it is great w/ cb)...but i am def considering cutting it and trying ot wasteland
also i have never played and never wanted to play the witness....i def cut it....
side note: engineered plague is so helpfull!!!
At last some support to my cause :) I have cut Witness and Volrath's Stronghold from my deck a long time ago and never really missed it. This is my deck (no maindeck changes in 3/4 year or so)Quote:
Originally Posted by lilrikki2000
// Lands
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Breeding Pool
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
1 Island
1 Academy Ruins
// Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Etched Oracle
// Spells
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Intuition
1 Life from the Loam
4 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Spell Snare
1 Vedalken Shackles
2 Daze
I have covered my changes quite extensively on last pages, where I defended some of my choices against critique. If you are interested, check last few pages for my posts and other discussion. I am running out of time, signing off..
ITF and DAZE?
Thats for sure not the way to go.
4 Spell Snare seems much better.
i agree....daze seems very weak in this deck, but I have been using spell snares...and they have been so great!! I helps vs every competitive deck and allows me to have the time to setup more optimal plays, esp when i am countering a goyf or a creature...
What you do not realize is the fact that ITF needs precise amounts of 1cc, 2cc and 3cc cards in order to be able to use CB.
You can't hope to softlock opponent with CB when you have only seven 2cc cards in your deck! (4 goyfs, 3 CB). Dazes in my deck are in place of Counterspell, I know that there are better cards than Daze, but those cards do not cost 2 mana... if someone finds better 2cc card, I will happily replace the Daze with it.
Hm... I'd have to suggest the CMC=2! Counterspells, you have just cut for Daze...Quote:
Originally Posted by Spare Parts
Logic?