[Deck] GW/x Maverick

The most important point about Jace in this deck is that is cancels out an active Jace, which considering the game state that usually occurs in, is a great thing. I could see someone going to 3 Cliques too, since that creature is such a house in the right metagame.

Flying is still king in Legacy.

EDIT: In light of the recent trend of the week, Geist of Saint Traft might be an issue for some Maverick lists (read: ALL OF THEM). Any ideas on how to answer this card? A 2/2 blocker is sufficient, provided it doesn't go Farming, but what's our insurance policy when Geist gets equipped with a Sword?

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Originally Posted by rukcus

The most important point about Jace in this deck is that is cancels out an active Jace, which considering the game state that usually occurs in, is a great thing. I could see someone going to 3 Cliques too, since that creature is such a house in the right metagame.

Flying is still king in Legacy.

EDIT: In light of the recent trend of the week, Geist of Saint Traft might be an issue for some Maverick lists (read: ALL OF THEM). Any ideas on how to answer this card? A 2/2 blocker is sufficient, provided it doesn't go Farming, but what's our insurance policy when Geist gets equipped with a Sword?

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Game 2...and board in krosan grips.

Wrath of God works :tongue:

Also, Horsemanship is the King of Legacy. You know it.

-Matt

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Originally Posted by rukcus

EDIT: In light of the recent trend of the week, Geist of Saint Traft might be an issue for some Maverick lists (read: ALL OF THEM). Any ideas on how to answer this card? A 2/2 blocker is sufficient, provided it doesn't go Farming, but what's our insurance policy when Geist gets equipped with a Sword?

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Tariff for Geist on your turn provided that there is no V Clique in play and if your opponent has 2 or less lands untapped. Usage is extremely situational though obviously and I'm sure there are better SB options. Maybe Mirran Crusader? Not a fan of either since it's not an instant and can also go farming before combat. And like the above mentioned, Krosan Grip for Sword.

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Originally Posted by rukcus

The most important point about Jace in this deck is that is cancels out an active Jace, which considering the game state that usually occurs in, is a great thing. I could see someone going to 3 Cliques too, since that creature is such a house in the right metagame.

Flying is still king in Legacy.

EDIT: In light of the recent trend of the week, Geist of Saint Traft might be an issue for some Maverick lists (read: ALL OF THEM). Any ideas on how to answer this card? A 2/2 blocker is sufficient, provided it doesn't go Farming, but what's our insurance policy when Geist gets equipped with a Sword?

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Metamorph or Ensaring Bridge? Pridemage on Equipment?

Phyrexian Metamorph as a two or three of in the board could help combat Reanimator, Show and Tell, opposing equipment, as well as Natural Order, Geist, and V. Clique. This may, however, make an E. Tutor sideboard unfeasible.

Phantasmal Image may actually start to make more sense now; Metamorph is still decent but a little pricier. Maze of Ith might be able to stem some of the aggro until you can land a blocker for Geist as well.

If you want Image, you need the blue splash, and you lose quite a bit of utility in not being able to copy equipment. The difference in mana cost is fairly minimal in a deck easily capable of producing 3 mana on turn two. Not to mention it dodged Spell Snare (which is still seeing quite a bit of play).

hey everyone. lots of maverick in my meta, and I dont really know how to sideboard versus them. what is the achilles heel of the deck?

I'm playing a MUD deck and have 3 or so extra slots left over.

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Originally Posted by kwelts

hey everyone. lots of maverick in my meta, and I dont really know how to sideboard versus them. what is the achilles heel of the deck?

I'm playing a MUD deck and have 3 or so extra slots left over.

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Damn lots of creature removals, i.e. the gate, eva green, or pox.

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Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow

Damn lots of creature removals, i.e. the gate, eva green, or pox.

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so I just grab extra removal. hmmm. ok I'll add All Is Dust. thanks.

EDIT: Karn Liberated works well for this too. I'll try that out.

Cursed Totem gives me headaches. :cool:

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Originally Posted by rukcus

EDIT: In light of the recent trend of the week, Geist of Saint Traft might be an issue for some Maverick lists (read: ALL OF THEM). Any ideas on how to answer this card? A 2/2 blocker is sufficient, provided it doesn't go Farming, but what's our insurance policy when Geist gets equipped with a Sword?

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Is this a serious problem against Maverick? I feel this is a lot more of an issue for control decks (i.e. Stoneblade mirrors) where Geist can easily destroy a planeswalker. Certainly, Geist with a couple of equipment strapped on is very difficult to beat, but Maverick has so many blockers that can kill Geist easily, plus plenty of ways to get rid of opposing equipment. I don't currently consider Geist a huge issue for Maverick.

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Originally Posted by lordofthepit

Is this a serious problem against Maverick? I feel this is a lot more of an issue for control decks (i.e. Stoneblade mirrors) where Geist can easily destroy a planeswalker. Certainly, Geist with a couple of equipment strapped on is very difficult to beat, but Maverick has so many blockers that can kill Geist easily, plus plenty of ways to get rid of opposing equipment. I don't currently consider Geist a huge issue for Maverick.

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My geist is never useful against mav. Mav's blockers are too big for geist.

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Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow

My geist is never useful against mav. Mav's blockers are too big for geist.

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Scryb Ranger is very useful against Geist.

Geist looks like compareable Thrun, but can be coutered, can be blocked easier, and can't be GSZed, so in Maverick it's not so good.

But in Aggro Bant it can be nuts.

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Originally Posted by Fatal

Geist looks like compareable Thrun, but can be coutered, can be blocked easier, and can't be GSZed, so in Maverick it's not so good.

But in Aggro Bant it can be nuts.

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How is it nuts in bant....bant is almost identical to mav except for some splash of blue (18 cards).

My geist is never useful against Iscare's mav deck. Should i be running SFM package with geist?

I think Geist's power probably depends on what you run that has synergy with it. For instance lists with Elspeth, a pro:Green Sword and/or Maze of Ith, give you several cards that combo well with him. I wouldn't build around Geist due to it not really providing any utility, but Hexproof and 6 attacking power is pretty cool if it fits the build one's already working with.

I actually think Geist has better synergy in Maverick than in Bant agro. The ground tends to clog up for Bant in agro/agro-control matches. Most recent lists Source posters have been discussing have dropped the SFM package in favor of GSZ at least in the main. At this point with Mother of Runes and SFM -> Sword of X&Y, Maverick has more ways to get a ground attacker to sneak through.

I've already mentioned it in other threads, but my biggest concern with Geist is that it's cutting into the decks utility for a non-evasive beater. If one's meta has a lot of Blade Control and combo decks this is maybe fine, but if there's a lot of agro and midrange it seems like an underwhelming card to draw into.

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Originally Posted by from Cairo

I think Geist's power probably depends on what you run that has synergy with it. For instance lists with Elspeth, a pro:Green Sword and/or Maze of Ith, give you several cards that combo well with him. I wouldn't build around Geist due to it not really providing any utility, but Hexproof and 6 attacking power is pretty cool if it fits the build one's already working with.

I actually think Geist has better synergy in Maverick than in Bant agro. The ground tends to clog up for Bant in agro/agro-control matches. Most recent lists Source posters have been discussing have dropped the SFM package in favor of GSZ at least in the main. At this point with Mother of Runes and SFM -> Sword of X&Y, Maverick has more ways to get a ground attacker to sneak through.

I've already mentioned it in other threads, but my biggest concern with Geist is that it's cutting into the decks utility for a non-evasive beater. If one's meta has a lot of Blade Control and combo decks this is maybe fine, but if there's a lot of agro and midrange it seems like an underwhelming card to draw into.

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Would you run a SOLS or a SOBM? Sorry can't afford SOFF

I think Geist is better against control decks because they tend not to have guys who can block / kill it on top of the hexproof being more relevant.

Against an aggro deck where you're likely on the defensive and needing to stabilize, a 3 mana 2/2 just isn't that great.

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Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow

Would you run a SOLS or a SOBM? Sorry can't afford SOFF

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If those were your choices, go with SOLS. The abilities as a whole are more useful and it dodges PtE and STP which Maverick/Bant will definitely have. It can also dodge TA/BUG control's and Eva Green's black removal spells (if you see them) and block Batterskull all day.

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Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow

Would you run a SOLS or a SOBM? Sorry can't afford SOFF

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I run Jitte, Fire and Ice and Light and Shadow. Light and Shadow can be great in the mirror, and versus Bant, Junk/Deadguy and Blade Control. Fire and Ice is usually my go to against combo, and situationally ideal versus Merfolk or Goblins. Usually I'd take Jitte versus Tribal/Vial decks and Zoo.

Is Rafiq still worth running in this deck? Would it replace the spot of Thrun or Terravore in a deck with a blue splash?

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Originally Posted by randomly.anonymous

Is Rafiq still worth running in this deck? Would it replace the spot of Thrun or Terravore in a deck with a blue splash?

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Each of these serve different purposes with regards to "breaking" through.
Thrun is best against control decks with lots of spot removal and possibly Maze of Ith.
Terravore is best against the mirror matchups to connect with equipment.
Rafiq is best against low-removal decks as a means to a fast clock.

Rafiq is actually the worst of the three because a single blocker can still prevent all the damage. I view Rafiq as a "win-more" option.

On top of that, Rafiq is the least protected of the three, defensively, since he gets killed by pretty much any removal spell that's played in Legacy.

I got to thinking about some of our bad matchups. Namely Jace and sometimes Reanimator. I think that Beast Within could answers those fairly well. Has anyone tried this out in Maverick? What has been your experience?

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Originally Posted by rukcus

I got to thinking about some of our bad matchups. Namely Jace and sometimes Reanimator. I think that Beast Within could answers those fairly well. Has anyone tried this out in Maverick? What has been your experience?

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I tried playtesting it with 2 in the deck. Just for some reason, never was able to draw it. Probably would be easier if i had 4 in the deck. It's almost never a dead card as it can destroy anything. But at 3CMC, it can be pretty pricey.

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Originally Posted by rukcus

I got to thinking about some of our bad matchups. Namely Jace and sometimes Reanimator. I think that Beast Within could answers those fairly well. Has anyone tried this out in Maverick? What has been your experience?

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I don't consider Jace decks or Reanimator decks bad matchups, although they aren't cakewalks either.

If you go the Punishing Fires route, opposing planeswalkers including Jace are ridiculously easy to kill; the flip side is it weakens your combo matchups, including Reanimator.

I prefer to load my sideboard with combo hate, thus allowing for an even higher win percentage against aggro and control decks.

Ok, I played a lot of games against Nic Fit - probably the Bane of Maverick existence, This MU is extremely hard to win.

List vs what I played was with 2 Recurring, MD 2 Kitchen Finks and 3 Liliana + 2 Pulse + 3 Deed and 4 Skriekmaws.. - 12 MD removal + 2 Edict +1 Pulse + 1 Damation so on SB, so 16 Removal which can be recurring 4 of them all mass destroying all table.

I ran standard Punishing GW/r list along with Batterskull which was MVP also Punishing Fire in this MU but still not enough..

Anyone have idea how to fix this really poor MU ? I was thinking about new Garruk, or old good Elspeth.

CREATURES(37)
1x Birds of Paradise
4x Mother of Runes
3x Noble Hierarch
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Scryb Ranger
3x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Qasali Pridemage
1x Eternal Witness (Considering replacing. Potentially Terravore)
4x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Thrun, the Last Troll

NON-CREATURE SPELLS (23)
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Sylvan Library
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Feast and Famine (Replacing with Fire and Ice)
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Batterskull

LAND (23)
1x Dryad Arbor
2x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
2x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
2x Plains
4x Savannah
3x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath
2x Wooded Foothills

SIDEBOARD:
2x Path to Exile
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Wheel of Sun and Moon
2x Choke
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Enlightened Tutor
1x Bojuka Bog (my pet card, though it can be a blowout)
2x Krosan Grip (good, but not 100% sold. Would rather something that can be found with tutor effects. Tried 1x Pridemage, 1x K-Grip with mild success)
2x Everchanging slots. What I expect to show up to an event.

Explanations:
Roughly 200 games with this list. It initially had -1 E. Witness, -2 Elspeth, -1 SoFaF, and +3 Aven Mindcensor, +1 SoFaI.
I found that Maverick usually wants a reach effect. Aven Mindcensor was giving me that effect, but the card was too easy to deal with. Sure, it's ability was occasionally relevant, especially against other KotR decks, but I still am digging for a StP or my own KotR anyways. The +2 Elspeth allows this deck to become defensive and buy time versus opposing Knights, or more aggro matchups (though it's too slow versus say Zoo or Merfolk, so I'll board them out), and still gives me the reach I wanted with Mindcensor. The biggest downside is that I don't have a way to easily deal with Delvers in game one, thought I usually am able to Green Sun Zenith for a Scryb Ranger.
Eternal Witness really is just a 4 CMC, Green Snapcaster (GSZ to grab a StP, though sometimes Wasteland). At this point, I think I just need to run a bigger dude to deal with or outclass creatues on the ground or another removal spell to deal with flyers in the air. At this point, it will probably become a Terravore.
I initially had Fire and Ice, then I went to Feast and Famine. At this point, Feast and Famine doesn't do enough for the deck, and I get the extra mana through Gaea's Cradle. I would rather have removal on a stick, and drawing cards is never bad, so I'm switching back to Fire and Ice.
The main differences in manabase from most convential lists are extra basics and Gaea's Cradle. I hate getting blown out by Wasteland effects, because it means you then are blown out by Force Spike effects. I play carefully with my landbase, but I've found that I don't usually need the ability to have each land tap for either color. I'm considering running -1 Savannah and +1 G fetchland. I also like forcing my opponent to either hold on to their Wastelands (and I'll just play around this for days) and force them to blow up lands that are a worse option for them (like an early Horizon Canopy). Sure, cards like Canopy are relevant for their card drawing abilities, but not until the late game, at which point, I'll just use KotR to grab one. As for Gaea's Cradle, I would highly recommend it. It's too good with Dryad Arbor + Hierarch.

On splashes:
I keep seeing blue splashes. Geist is cute, but I feel like this is the wrong shell. Sure, you occasionly get him suited up with a Sword and beat face, but it's not worth diluting a manabase for. KotR will win games on his own. I like Spymaster, but it seems like it would usually just be around in "win-more" situations. The card I would most like to splash blue for would be Trygon Predator (like a -1 Pridemage, +1 Predator situation), but it's not worth it.
I played roughly 20 games with a Punishing Fire list, and I get it, but I found it was easy to struggle with mana. Really, I liked having red for Pyroblast and Firespout in the board, but it wasn't worth the manabase change.

I prefer G/W version. Typically, I feel as if I have a 55-60 matchup on most game ones (not considering combo/dredge). I would love thoughts or suggestions on the list.

E.Witness is very useful slot, I wouldn't replace it, It is always CA, even bringing wasteland/stp/countered Zenith or anything. It also very very good with Sword of Light and Shadow, you should give a try SoLaS, specially running 2 Libraries its pure draw engine connected with CA. I don't like 2 Elspeth MD, running Batterskull you almost always want SFM so should be playset -> Shuffling with library -> you cannot lose :).

I would also play 1 Tormod's instead wheel, its faster and can exile gy when you are too slow with wheel (for example reanimator)

Garruk 3.0 is king against Nic Fit, as is Elspeth and Surgical Extraction, against bad players K-Grip works as well.

Mini, did you try out -1 Forest -1 Savannah + 2 Taiga for REB out of the board, without using punishing fire?

I tired 2 Armaggedons and was quite well working, since we running Loam and a much less manacurve, they do nothing without a lands.

The affinity matchup is pretty good with mav.

Iscare made the most epic misplays today. He had 4 counters on a jitte and didn't use it on etched champion, and he scooped instead

Quarterfinal between Jakob and Nathan is probly the best game they featured the whole day. Such a swingy mirror.

About time Maverick won a legacy open :P

So the G/W Maverick (Jacob Kory) vs. Punishing Maverick (Nathan Calvin) is pretty intense. Game 2 just finished up and was insane.

Congrats rukcus on great performance! Especially in a field that is traditionally combo-ish

Way to show people that brainstorm/blue decks aren't needed to win a tournament.

Looks like American Meta became more Euro ones ;)

GG guys for nice plays.

Congrats, rukcus! Hoping for a tournament report soon!

I'm going to smack the next person who tells me that non-blue decks suck and are not skill-intensive. But for the latter, I will refer them to your matchup against the 15 y/o kid. Both of you played very impressively, especially for after such a long tournament. There are so many decision trees involved in a Maverick mirror and so many tricks to be played, both in combat and otherwise. It was an exciting game to watch. That being said, I definitely don't want to see too many Maverick mirrors in the future--they're very draining to play and cause tournaments to run long!

Thanks for the kind words. Now is time to sleep. Report *MAYBE* by end of the week.