Consistency of opening hands. If 4 of your lands (5 if you count Dryad) are dead in your opening hand then really what you have is 13 ish lands you can use turn one. If you look at it that way it makes sense to go for the higher number.
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Consistency of opening hands. If 4 of your lands (5 if you count Dryad) are dead in your opening hand then really what you have is 13 ish lands you can use turn one. If you look at it that way it makes sense to go for the higher number.
Realisticly, you only need 1 land to start.
Fetch for a Forest ->GSZ=0, Dryad Arbor, Go?
You can say that, but your playing a numbers game. Realistically you want at lest one land you can use, plus some what to accelerate your mana throughout the next two turns. On top of that you want something you can use to end the game. Your going to have more luck not having to throw away great hands that had no useful mana if you have a bit more to increase the odds.
Also remember, if you have to throw back your 7 card hand, your actually worse off getting the lands you need on 6, again on 5. If you have a miniscule amount of land, when you have to throw your initial hand back you risk having to repeat that act again more often on 6 cards thanks to no land hands.
Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.
My testing is not displaying the same thing.
But, I still have over a month to make my mind on the final configuration.
EDIT: I could also be totally wrong. I once walked into a Legacy event w/ ELVES! completely trashed and running only 15 lands. Top 8'ed it.
You should buy some lottery tickets and mail them to me. Also who do you think will win *INSERT SPORTING EVENT HERE*? I'll make some bets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayradis
Thanks for reminding me. I have a lottery ticket in my wallet I need to check!Quote:
Originally Posted by danyul
....
...
..
.
Not winning.
Also.
Habs will win the stanley cup.
7 matches.
(I've been saying that since '93...)
Wow, I was away from TheSource forum over summer and there are 50 new pages in Elves thread!
First question. I realized that I still have big problems with RUG-Delver. What is your side plan against it? Or what is your overall strategy?
Second question. Is it worth adding a blue splash and Swan Song against Show and Tell decks or (maybe) ANT?
Ruric Thar
Thar and Meekstone do a number on RUG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayradis
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
I see a lot of lists with one meekstone in the board...how on earth do you hope to draw it as a one-of?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
Ruric makes sense, but if you're going to run Meekstone then why not at least two?
Well, you see, we're already wasting sideboard slots on Meekstone, but we don't want to waste too many, but we recognize RUG as being a not-easy matchup. So let's cap it at 1-2 slots and raw dog into those two cards. Because, #YOLO. </sarcasm>Quote:
Originally Posted by mith
I honestly don't know. I'm still not sure why people are continuing to run Mindbreak Trap. We know Belcher/Tin Fins et al are bad matchups due to the nature of being faster combo decks. That accounts for at most 15% of the metagame. Wasting 2-3 slots on that 15% seems like a waste honestly. I still advocate having flexible and useful SB slots against a variety of similar matchups. Case in point: Thalia & Thorns vs spell based combo and control decks.
While I've always agreed that Mindbreak Trap is stupid, Meekstone is at least defensible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
Against RUG, games actually last longer than two turns whereas vs Storm you have to hope to have one of your two Traps in hand. Against RUG there's ample time to cantrip into Meekstone via Visionary or mini-Glimpses. In a RUG heavy meta running a couple Meekstones is perfectly fine.
GP Brisbane day one is today. I have no idea if there will be a stream for Legacy but I will be playing my elves there.
Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.
I'm running 4x Thorn of Amethyst, and they're amazing. I can't imagine running Mindbreak instead...
Does this 17 land include Dryad Arbor?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayradis
According of my Memory of his latest list, it does.Quote:
Originally Posted by trevaftw
You know me so well! :tongue:
Just remember me thinking "wtf? How he's stalling into eot fetch for Arbor into NO against board control with that manabase?" ;PQuote:
Originally Posted by Kayradis
I'm one hell of an Elves! player!
Bully for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayradis
They're great. Of course, they don't help us disrupt the turn 1 and--on the draw--turn 2 win for some of the faster decks. That said, reliably finding 2 Mindbreak Traps just doesn't appear to be worth the slots for a versatile sideboard. I'm curious what you (and others) think about going with Winter Orb over Thorn of Amethyst.Quote:
Originally Posted by mith
Going to stream some 2man action with Elves for about 2 hours, depending on how much action I get.
http://twitch.tv/itsJulian
Let me know in the chat if you want me to try a certain built, card or style with Elves. Looking forward to your feedback guys. And of course you know: we're all godlike..unless we are on camera :wink:
Thanks for posting these games publicly. They are great to watch. I especially appreciate the games where you're commenting--not that the music isn't good. Keep up the great work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
Thank you so much, I really appreciate the feedback. I never thought commentating while playing was actually something you have to put a lot of effort into. Especially during my first streams, I had felt that I could have done better with the quality of my plays. But the more I get used to it, the easier it flows. Also, I just set up a Premium Account on Spotify, so you guys won't have to listen to any more German adds inbetween songs :smile:
I'll be streaming the next Legacy Daily event at 13:30 CEST, which is in 45 minutes. Come and join me, looking forward to seeing you on stream. I also just bought a webcam on amazon and will incorporate it (as well as a view of the livechat) into the stream. Right now, we're still in the setup phase but I love doing it!
For those of you running Ruric Thar, are you swapping a Craterhoof Behemoth out for it? If so, do you ever miss having the second hoof in the main deck?
I run the Ruric in addition to 2 craterhoofs...it's one of the few flex spots & is a great big Zenith target when I can't get Craterhoof. Combo opponents basically scoop when Ruric hits play (happens fast with NO)
I think 2 Craterhoof Behemoths belong to the core nowadays...you can always sideboard one out if needed.
Funny thing from GP Prague legacy event: Omni-Tell opponent thought he had the win...until I flip over Ruric Thar from his Show and Tell! :D
I run 1 Hoof 1 Regal Force, SB Ruric Thar to increase the density/variety of targets. Vs RUG, for instance, just landing Ruric Thar is enough to win the game, as he's bigger than every creature RUG has and punishes them severely for playing their game. I don't think Ruric Thar is maindeck is most metagames.Quote:
Originally Posted by _Fortune_
Progenitus is a much better target versus Canadian if you want 1 monster which does not depend on a bunch of elves on the board.
1) In case you can race Canadian, Progenitus does a much better job than Ruric which I guess is your plan since neither Progenitus nor ruric are very good at stalling.
2) Ruric can be submerged and likely not recast due to lack of red. He can also be blocked by mongoose and bolted which is not a bad trade, but if we got the rest of our board submerged we might still lose.
3) They can just double block Ruric with a Goyf and another random creature and trade 1 for 1.
I think Ruric deserves his slot in the SB.
On the other hand, Ruric Thar nullified Delver, which Pro can't. Both are valid in this matchup, and your points add more favor to Progenitus. Very good counter pointers actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by catmint
I just finished watching your games from the fifth; thanks so much for twitching them. You hit some hard luck in a couple of those games. We really got to see ow seemingly small choices can have a significant impact on the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
I'm a big fan of Winter Orb as a viable threat in the sideboard and was glad to see you put one in there. (I'm curious why you didn't board it in against that last deck you played against, the one with the Young Pyromancer (what kind of deck was that, anyway?).) If you've got the inclination, I'd be interested to see you try putting a couple of more in the board; it tends to be a wrecking ball against many decks that rely on multiple colors.
The cards are not interchangeable, thorn of amethyst is for fighting combo, wich really doesn't primarily rely on lands to cast its spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_of_Rivendell
Anyway i think winter orb is quite good against miracles so it could be tried in that matchup.
I'm having theorical fear against the "new" Young Pyromancer.
I was sifting in my my mind and instead of taking it out with Abrupt Decay or discard, I had another Elf in my head...
Deranged Hermit is an elf which makes 4 tokens which are 2/2 if you can keep him in play. Sort of keeps the Pyromancer in check.
Then again, is YP really an issue for our deck?!?
As for the rest: I finally got my 2nd Bayou in as well as 2 Thoughtseizes which are now in my 75. A forest made room for the 2nd Bayou and most will be happy to hear that I cut 2 Mindbreak Trap to add 2 Thoughtseizes in the sideboard (which already contains 4 Therapy).
Played a local Bazaar of Moxen tiral today and brougt some Elves. 19 Players showed up in Uppsala.
List with 2 Craterhoof, 4 Natural Order, 4 Quirion Ranger, 2 Birchlore Rangers, 1 Llanowar Elves, 18 lands + 1 Dryad Arbor
Round 1: Draw on time against UWR Control with Supreme Verdict and Izzet Charm. Lost game 1 after like 40 min, won game 2 right after time was called
0-0-1 (1-1)
Round 2: Win against BG Dark Depths combo. Game 1 won with Craterhoof on like turn 5 against Gitaxian Probe, Cabal Therapy and Thoughtseize. Game 2 was grindy, both were in topdeck mode but I had more guys
1-0-1 (3-1)
Round 3: Win against UW Miracles. Won game 1 trough a Counterbalance (He was new to legacy and drew the 4CMC card the turn before I played NO). Game 2 was long, very long. He played Humility so I had about zero outs to win, but I managed not to lose by playing Abrupt Decay on Rest in Peace as response to him activating Helm :)
2-0-1 (4-1)
Round 4: Loss against UWR Delver. Lost game 1, won game 2. My notes for game 3: Delver, flip with Lightning Bolt, Delver no2, Swords, Flip delver no2 with Swords, Rough Tumble. GG. Yeah I lost that one :)
2-1-1 (5-3)
Round 5: Win against Elves. This game was for top 8. Sad to kick out another Elves player. Lost the dieroll but kept my hand, he mulled. I won on my turn 3 with Glimpse. Game 2 I held a slow hand with Cabal Therapy. Emptied his hand (NO and Regal Force) turn 2 but didn't manage to take the game. Game 3 he misstakenly announced that he would use GSZ, like thinking loud but changed his mind. I played Therapy turn 1 to take it and sacrificed my drop turn 2 to flash it back taking 2x Glimpse. Further down the game I had a GSZ in my hand with mana to find a Hoof next turn but he had a Therapy. So played my other cards but left 5 mana opened and passed the turn. He thought I didn't have the GSZ so I won on my next turn
3-1-1 (7-4)
Top 8. Same BG Dark Depths. I comboed turn 3. He did the same. I won a slower game 3.
(9-5)
Top 4: Punishing Jund. First game was good. Turn 1 Fetch and GSZ for Dryad Arbor. Turn 2, Birchlore, Nettle, Visionary, 2x 1 drop elves, NO for Hoof. Untap Dryad Arbor, hit you for 18. Game 2 was good for him, double Punishing Fire, I couldn't get NO in time. Game 3 I had a turn 3 Progenitus but he took my NO. I drew a GSZ a few turns later and found a Hoof.
Split in finals. Left with 2 Windswept Heath, a FTW Realms and 2 byes for Bazaar of Moxen :)
I find this thought process (and your use of line breaks) irrational.Quote:
Originally Posted by PendelSteven
Against any deck running Young Pyromancer, you should be more afraid of the cards supporting the Pyromancer than the Pyromancer itself. Like most fake gangsters, Young Peezy ain't shit without his homies.
You are afraid of a few 1/1s when instead you should be afraid of:
Cabal Therapy+Gix Probe
Lightning Bolt
Grim Lavamancer
Counterspells
Stifle
Etc.
IRT Deranged Hermit - why would I spend :3::g::g: to "stall" Young Peezy when I can spend :2::g::g: to win the game?
A fair point. Would you be willing to talk a little about where you feel thorn of amethyst operates most effectively? That is, against which decks and cards do you find it most effective?Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoCop 90
Many thanks,
LoR
Thorn is especially good against ANT and TES, wich usually let you have the time to cast it. Against superfast combo like belcher it is too slow, but it's not worth to dedicate sideboard slots to fight belcher unless it is constantly present in your meta. If that's the case, you should run mindbreak trap.
Consider that thalia guardian of thraben has the same effect of thorn of amethyst while also beating, so she also is a good choice in my opinion, although she can be removed more easily than thorn.
Thorn > Thalia since people don't tend to bring artifact hate/removal against Elves! and bring more creature removal.
And Im still convinced that Ruric Thar deserves a slot in the MB
If you do run Thar main you need the Taiga. I won a game at the GP because I had a Tiga in my deck, the guy checked out my board and saw I had no red (I had two fetches active), he bounced Thar and I just fetched out the Taiga and hit him in the face again. He sighed and told me he did not see that land main in elves coming.
I did cut the savannah and running a taiga instead.
Ruric Thar is NUTS