It's in the tourney reports section of this site. I'm playing in a monthly today with almost the same list. Probably can't stay for the whole thing, but we'll see how it goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by nicoleptik
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It's in the tourney reports section of this site. I'm playing in a monthly today with almost the same list. Probably can't stay for the whole thing, but we'll see how it goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by nicoleptik
Miracles: You're bringing in Decays and want to hold on to Jitte, so you'll have answers to Mentor. You can't have too many reactive cards post board so Plows have to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by RPD
Eldrazi: They bring in Ratchet Bomb, Jitte, and All is Dust if they play it. I've seen Eldrazi players bring in Leyline of the Void, but that isn't very good against us. They probably board out Trinisphere/Thorn if they play those. Thalia 1.0 isn't great in the matchup but isn't awful as she does shutt off the anemic x/2 Mimic and Matter Reshaper beats, and lone Factory attack. New Thalia is very good against Eldrazi.
Sneak: Plow is really bad against Griselbrand. Letting them draw 7 extra cards with the life generally isn't worth it. Your plan in this matchup is to "kill" Griselbrand with Karakas.
D&T: Garruk is very unreliable in this matchup due to his low loyalty and vulnerability to flyers. Not to mention their mana denial, using Mother to push attackers through, and shutting him off with Revoker.
Got top 4 at monthly event. Beat Jund w/o PFires, Miracles, Shardless, drew into top 8. Beat MUD and then lost to HymnYou on BG Depths because I punted
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I've been playing Titania for about a year and like it. After this summer I have been trying the more traditional lists with 4 mothers and no cards CMC > 3. I'm not sure what version I prefer and plan to do some testing back and forth. I think the meta may have slowed down enough that my decision will swing in favor of Titania. Producing an army of 5/3's while allowing for extra Wastelands should be very strong vs Eldrazi and it's also a good card for pressuring Miracles, or so I think. Especially with KotR + Karakas backup for bouncing when they try to answer it.Quote:
Originally Posted by CRich3
...
On a different topic, I'm going to mention a couple of deck building options that I keep coming back to. They are not all tested yet, sorry about that, but some thoughts have accumulated. I'm sure a lot of it is nonsense. It would be interesting to hear your comments on them.
Depths + Stage: I like the plan KotR into Depths + Stage vs decks not playing Abrupt Decay or Swords to Plowshares. That is primarily Grixis Delver, I think. And Lands [edit: but they have Wasteland, crop etc so forget it]. And Eldrazi, but vs that deck I think the StP's, Decays and KotR's are enough to give a good matchup. I'm not too fond of this option (Depths + Stage) right now, I'd rather have good cards vs Miracles.
Abrupt Decay vs Swords to Plowshares vs ... Cavern of Souls(?): I've been playing 3 Decay and 3 StP's for the last 18 months or so I think. Since Counterbalance and Chalice have been more of an issue than Deathrite and Goblin Lackey I guess (and Decaying Delver is better than StP-ing it). I feel that if I'm playing 2 Decays then I would want a Cavern of Souls in the deck. To hedge vs Counterbalance and Chalice. Just bringing it up as an idea.. I think I like Cavern over a second Forest in lists with 2 maindeck Decays. Actually I'm even thinking that t1 Cavern into Deathrite through a Chalice on 1 may be pretty strong, since it allows you to expand quickly. Playing nothing t1, Decay t2 (best case) into your first piece of interaction on t3 is quite slow. A Cavern gives you a way to respond with more tempo in the Eldrazi matchup, making you less dependent on winning the die roll. While obviously Cavern on humans lets you deploy a lot of threats uninterrupted by Miracles. It looks like I'll try joining the Cavern camp.
-- 3 drops:
This is where a lot of the differentiation between versions of Maverick takes place (if excluding the Punishing versions).
Tireless Tracker: I think I would like to play 1-2 Tireless Trackers to have a good threat vs Miracles since it may be able to wear them out, it's a 3 for 1 card advantage or better whenever they deal with it - unless they Terminus it, in which case you should still be able to get a couple of cards out of it.
Leovold: I would also like to play a copy of Leovold since shutting down cantrips is strong, and forcing opponents into dealing with it with card disadvantage is strong, and it goes well with the plan of wearing out Miracles. Also the random t2 Leovold can damage a lot of blue decks including combo, is never irrelevant and Leovold with Mother backup is a heavy headache for most decks. So ideally I'd like to play 1-2 Trackers and 1-2 Leovolds in the maindeck. In order to play Leovold in the maindeck I think I need a copy of Tropical Island too. Which means I'll be looking at a few blue cards for the sideboard, if I find some truly strong ones that may be the deciding factor for inclusion of Leovold(s). I think Back to Basics may perhaps be just that. And perhaps Invasive Surgery for dealing with Toxic Deluges and Termini as well as random combo key cards.
Thalia, Heretic Cathar: I would like to include Thalia in the deck too, since she hoses the mana development of Miracles, Lands and Eldrazi while also shutting down the Glimpse combo from Elves. But there is not room for both Thalia HC and Tracker and Leovold. I'm starting to wonder if we really need 3-4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben in the deck. It's main function is interacting with cantrips and Storm based combo. Well, Leovold is better for interacting with cantrips and Storm... Maybe I need Thalia for Storm. Vs Eldrazi and Miracles Thalia GT is not good at all. I'm thinking of testing skipping down to 2 Thalia GT and 2 Thalia HC.
Edit: one more thing, I haven't figured out how Sanctum Prelate fits yet.. It's another powerful 3 drop.
--- Sb options:
Thoughtseize: Playing less Thoughtseizes seems right. At least for my meta. Will settle for 2.
Pithing Needles: I'm surprised that most people play only 1 copy of this card. Vs the number one issue in the meta, Miracles, it's a cost efficient answer to 4 SDT's in their deck, while also doing damage to the Mentor win condition and the Jace win condition and the Karakas/Venser bounce. Granted, since they started maindecking Engineered Explosives (at least I think they do) it lost a little bit of value. We need to be careful with the 1 drops I guess, if you have Needle then save the Deathrite in hand(?). Anyway, Pithing Needle is not only great in the grindiest matchup available, it's also great vs some fast strategies. It interacts t1 with Belcher and vs Reanimators and Tin Fins and Sneak Attack [edit: meant Sneak & Show] it's a t1 answer to them drawing 14 extra cards through Griselbrand which is perhaps what matters most in terms of winning/losing a game. Vs Lands it's t1 cost efficient interaction with their win condition, sure they tend to have 4 answers but.. Well, that one's up for discussion. Vs Tribal strategies and Death and Taxes it's a truly efficient way of dealing with their swarming enabler Aether Vial with potential card advantage while also interacting with other key cards such as Jitte (Death & Taxes), Krenko/Sharpshooter (Goblins) and Rishadan Ports (Goblins/DnT) and Mutavaults (Merfolk). It's a potential card advantage and quick interaction vs Infect/Inkmoth Nexus that doesn't risk being answered by Vines. It's a bit risky in this matchup, true, but cmc 1 interaction with their win conditions does not grow on trees, furthermore it goes well with the Abrupt Decays that don't hit Inkmoth. In short I think Pithing Needle as a 2 of in the sideboard is worth it.
Engineered Plague: I've already mentioned this but I like it better than Zealous Persecution. I think ZP shines vs Infect but in other matchups I prefer the ZP that costs one mana more and stays around. Especially vs Elves, Merfolk, Goblins and Miracles (Monks/Wizards) you want it to stay around. I think it should be good vs Eldrazi too.
Surgical Extraction: with the presumed lower amount of combo decks and lowered amount of Thoughtseizes in the sideboard [edited] (great interaction Thoughtseize + Surgical as a 1 CMC quasi Slaughter Games and Brainstorm killer), and also with the increased presence of reanimator strategies, permanent answers in the form of Leyline of the Void and Rest in Peace are getting better. I prefer the combination 1 Leyline, 1 RiP and 1 Enlightened tutor since it hedges your matchups vs Reanimator/Tin Fins while also adding relevant, tutorable answers to lands and Goyf/Deathrite decks.
---
Finally, props to Megadeus for a lenghty report, love it!
I actually only played a 2/2 split of Thalia's yesterday as you said, and I agree on the multiple needles, and also on the number of discard. At least in my meta, combo is severely lacking. In the I think 16 man event yesterday, the only combo was dark depths based, and I guess the one enchantress deck. I would like to fit in a tireless tracker again actually, New Thalia just has been nuts for me, and I'm already down to 3 knights. I guess next to go would probably be the Garruk I played main or maybe even a stone forge.
Thanks for the input @Seraphix, really appreciated :)
Got to play with the deck a bit today. Played poorly, games were too lopsided to be fun (not the matchups themselves, but the games in particular), dropped at the third round. Lost 1-2 against both BUG delver and grixis delver, won 2-1 against turbo depths.
Few questions
1 - Against this blue delver decks, should I blindly sideboard cards against TNN? Game three against BUG they casted it and I hadn't seen it in the other two games, so my zealous persecutions were in the sideboard. My intuition tells me that I should try to race TNN the first time that I see it and then include cards against it the following games, unless zealous persecution is good in the matchup overall (for example, killing pyromancer against grixis)
2 - I kept a triple thalia, guardian of thraben against an unknown oponent, and I was punished hard by probe > cabal therapy. My reasoning is that thalia is really good against the field overall and having so many of them allows me to bait lots of resources into her while having more as a backup, but cabal therapy decks are a problem. Would you keep that hand or I shouldn't open myself to that risk?
3 - Against grixis delver, I had three mana and a choke in my hand. The grixis player was tapped out, so choke is at its best. Nonetheless, it's vulnerable to daze. If I wait one more turn, I'll play around daze but they might cabal therapy it or just untap some mana, making it less effective. In that situation, is it best to play choke or to wait one more turn?
4 - Mother of runes as an attacker. Is there any matchup/situation where I should attack with her? Some games, she's just sitting there doing nothing, while I have no more creatures to protect and my opponent might not have any removal.
5 - Against dark depths decks, should I hold wasteland until they have the combo assembled or is it better to break them fast to keep them out of mana? Some of the times where I fired them quickly, the targeted land got crop rotated while other times the mana denial was nice (in combination with thalia). I don't really know which is the optimal line.
Sorry if some of this questions are too obvious... as I said, I'm pretty new in the format overall.
1. The problem with ZP is it's pretty weak outside of killing TNN. I think I'd rather be on the plan of having sword to walk past or mom to get past it. Or even Rogues passage in my case. ZP though is probably worth it if nothing else to save guys from Deluge if they don't do it for a bunch and Golgari Charm which they probably also bring in.
2. I don't like triple Thalia blind that much. It's not the worst, but meh. It's hard to capitalise on a Thalia tax if your hand is just more things you can't do. If you had double wasteland or something with it, maybe.
3. Tough. Really depends on board state and hands. I might just jam it if I have a knight or something. Worst case it's duress to resolve knight, best case it wins the game?
4. Again, depends on board state and life totals and such. If it's a match where she's key I would not risk it usually.
5. Again Depends. If it's early and you can catch them without rotation, go for it. Especially if you have another way to answer lage like an STP or something. If it's your only line of defense maybe hold on to it to buy you a turn or two to try to draw an answer
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I find ZP amazing versus decks like Infect, too, and can also be brought in for YP tokens, Nimble Mongoose without Threshold, Elves, or some D&T lists that rely more on the traditional creatures that were mostly X/1 and less on the new toys they've gotten this year that are often X/2. Pretty sure there's a "Best of SCG Live" video where ZP allows a board of Moms to defeat a board of Nimble Mongoose (Mongeese?).Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
I'm so close to building Maverick! I'm currently playing a combo deck, but much prefer fairer decks.
Between 3 FNMs and 2 larger events in the past few weeks I'm something like 16-3 with two of those losses containing probably match losing misplays. Deck is great right now. Anybody ever play Natural Order? Debating playing it out of the board or something just for fun. I can't imagine how Shardless ever beats a Worldspine Wurm
Good to hear, Megadeus!
I decided to test some of the ideas I posted above going 2-2 in the weekly local legacy event (~40 players, good turnout again). I never got a turn two Thalia HC or Leovold and when I played them they didn't matter too much, don't think the alternative cards would have been much better. At least Tracker got to draw a lot of cards when played. Titania might have been able to win a game vs Standstill but he had the FoW. Leovold did cause some problems due to my fetching BUG duals over basics and the UR delver player resolving a Blood Moon, I could have played more conservatively but was eager to play the Leovold.
R1: Goblins 2-0
I draw plenty of removal, destroy Vials and keep him low on mana with active Knight.
R2: UR Delver 1-2
I get slow hands (Double Decay otd vs triple Monastery Swiftspear) and lose one game by not fetching basics (which he punishes with a Blood Moon and he has double Smash to Smithereens for my two equipment). Jitte wins one game.
R3: BR Reanimator 2-1
All games are a bit drawn out, he doesn't open with Chancellor of the Annex and doesn't have any t1 reanimation. In game 1 Thalia GT is game winning, in game 2 I swords an early Elesh Norn and then play RiP which he destroys with Reverent Silence and then after a round or two he gets Griselbrand which wins the race over my pair of Thalias. In game 3 I open with Leyline of the Void which gives me enough time to get Ooze etc in place.
R4: BUG Standstill 1-2
I expected the double Leovold to be MvP in this matchup but I don't think I saw them at all. In the game I won a Tireless Tracker drew me back like 4-5 cards but he was very unlucky and lost with about 5 lands in hand. One game lost involved a t2 Standstill and I didn't get enough lands to power out my cards in an efficient manner. G3 I draw zero removal and die to a goyf, I t1 Thoughtseized a Standstill over a Goyf which may have been a mistake.
Hey All,
What's the general gameplan against combo, let's say ANT specifically? How aggressively should I mulligan? The key cards in the matchup appear to be Thoughtseize, Gaddock Teeg, Ethersworn Canonist, Thalia GoT, and Wasteland. I always mulligan to at least one piece of disruption, but I often feel that I absolutely need to have Thoughtseize turn one. How do you all approach the matchup, what are you looking for in an opening hand, and what factors lead you to mulligan? Thanks!
Thalia without a wasteland can be pretty mediocre at times. Two pieces are nice because there's a non zero chance that they get a therapy and probe to take one. Could always go up to 4 discard if you feel like combo will be prevalent. I think I currently bring in 1 Surgical, 2 duress, 2 zealous persecution, and maybe Faerie Macabre or Choke. I can probably bring in both right now because my main board is pretty geared to beat fair deck so I have enough to cut. ZP automatically replaces STP because it beats goblins, bobs, pyromancer. Choke plus Thalia is probably GG. I could also see considering a second Teeg.
I generally try to mulligan to get one piece of hate, however I generally need a pretty good hand if wasteland is the only disruption piece in my hand. Otherwise I don't think you can mulligan too aggressively trying to beat the turn 1, turn 2 storm combos. Those ones you generally lose anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by QuranJames
Finally, I activate my account and can post threads now.
Here is a short match report of my 3-0 in the LGS. I play a GW/B maverick. It was Wednesday before Thanksgiving. Only 6 of us show up, and we did only 3 rounds. I played a standard list without dark depths and stage.
I have 3 flexible slots and fill the slots with 1 Leovold+2 new Thalia. To play Leovold, I add 1 tropical island and take out 1 forest.
vs DnT 2-1
game 1:
He played 2 waste lands and used port to lock me out. With a revoker named DRS, I stopped playing magic. I only had a Thalia2.0 in the field. GG.
game 2:
-2 old Thalia -2 new Thalia -1 teeg +2 zealous persecution +2 decay +1 quasali
He side board in 2 canonists and enlightening tutor!!? And he tutored a 2nd canonist !? I had a 3rd turn Sword of F&I and equipped it to a hierarchy. He had a mom to block hierarchy. Finally, a ZP broke the balance and won me the game.
game 3:
Leovold is the MVP in this game. He drew me 4 or 5 cards. Wastelands, port and StP all trigger his ability. With answers to all his threats, the game ended quickly.
vs Grixis Delver 2-1
His deck looks like a Grixis control version with no YP and no therapy.
game 1:
I got a turn 2 THC. In his turn, she got a Lightning Bolt on her head. He jammed a Bob and drew tons of cards. GG.
game 2:
-2 THC -1 Teeg +2 decay + 1 quasali
A turn 2 small Thalia with hierarchy really gave him troubles. A needle named mom. But, It didn't matter at this point. A Thalia pumped by two hierarchy hit hard. Later, a 8/8 Knight ended the game.
game 3:
I won on the back of two wastelands.
vs UR delver 2-0
game 1:
I used one waste land. He only had 2 waste lands in the next 4 turns. GG.
game 2:
He ran out of gas quickly and lost to a small Thalia with a Sword of F&I.
So, what you guys think about flexible slots? I don't really like new Thalia. Should I add a 2nd Leovold and Garruk?
I think Thalia HC is not at her best vs cost efficient red decks, they -perhaps- aren't hurt too much by the slower mana development (compared to other decks) but primarily they can get rid of her very easily and with tempo advantage by bolting her. But apparently you won vs both Grixis and UR Delver so you can perhaps afford a few weak slots that are better in other matchups. I suggest you keep her around for a bit more testing, at least I intend to.Quote:
Originally Posted by artificertxj
Probably, you are right. I should try THC in more games. Actually, I play Maverick with 2-3 THC few times. She really helps with elves if I can get her out at turn 2. IMO, Leovold can help with more bad match-ups like storm, elves and miracles. He also can be fetched by zenith. The downside is a 4c mana base.Quote:
Originally Posted by pettdan
Finally have Maverick built here's my list, any thoughts or critiques welcome.
Lands 23
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
Creatures
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Instants/Sorceries
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
Artifacts / Enchantment/ Planeswalker
1 Umizawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Garruk Relentless
9 Maverick decks made day 2 in GP Chiba, 0 decks in top 64 sadly. Many D&T though. Could maverick include 2 Recruiter of the guard? What is missing from the deck to be on the top tables?
Brainstorm. I kid. Recruiter doesn't help this deck imo. You already have green Sun as a tutor. The deck really just needs miracles to scale back a bit. Mentor can be a real issue. Miracles is just unfavorable and when you know it's close to probably 20% of the field you need a plan. I'm probably bringing in half of my side board at this point for miracles