[Primer] Elves!

Played in a local Legacy tournament today. After going 4-0 this Wednesday I felt pretty sure about my deck, but decided to cut the Leovold for Silkweaver Elite to try it out. So I started the day looking through the cards left behind after the drafts this weekend and got myself a playset. I ended up playing a 1/1 split. 39 players showed up, so 6 rounds and a cut to top 8.

1 Misty Rainforest
1 Pendelhaven
2 Bayou
2 Forest
2 cavern of Souls
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
4 Gaea's Cradle
2 Dryad Arbor
1 Llanowar Elves
2 Birchlore Rangers
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
3 Nettle Sentinel
3 Quirion Ranger
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Heritage Druid
4 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Reclamation Siege
1 Silkweaver Elite
3 Natural Order
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Round 1 vs Infect
G1: Quick NO -> Hoof the turn before I would die. 1-0
(-3 NO, -1 Hoof, -1 Arbor, -2 Nettle, + 2 Thoughtseize, +2 Therapy, +1 Elite, +4 Decay)
G2: Quick Inkmoth into Invigorate + Berserk. 1-1.
G3: I played a t1 Zenith - for Arbor, t2 Elite and t3 Symbiote. My opponent mull to 5 couldn't get through with Inkmoth. A therapy getting 2 Invigorates sealed the deal. 2-1
1-0

Round 2 vs BUG Control
G1: Value glimpse, into a second glimpse and a lot of elves. 1-0
(-1 Glimpse, -1 Birchlore, -2 Nettle, -2 Heritage , +4 Decay, +2 Nissa, +1 Ooze)
G2: Grindy game, but I had the Best Friends team to get me cards. Attacked for the win in small chunks. 2-0
2-0

Round 3 vs BR Reanimator
G1: My opponent played fetch, petal, cracked petal for Dark Ritual and then played Thoughtseize. I scooped in response pretty sure on what my opponent was playing. 0-1
(1- Nettle, -1 Elite, -2 Visionary, -1 Quirion, -2 Symbiote, -1 Zenith, +3 Surgical, +2 Thoughtseize, +2 Therapy, +1 Ooze)
G2: I had a Surgical for Griselbrand, and then 2 discard spells. Ooze sealed the deal. 1-1
G3: Opponent mulled to 5, played Looting into Animate Dead. I had the Surgical once more. A Thoughtseize took the second reanimate spell and a Deathrite made sure I had the time to win through attacks. 2-1
3-0

Round 4 vs BUG splashing W for Swords and Meddling Mage
G1: Turn 2 Hymn took my Natural Order and Glimpse. My hand didn't do much and I didn't get any more action. 0-1
(-3 NO, -1 Hoof, -1 Arbor, -1 Nettle, -1 Sentinel, +4 Decay, +2 Nissa, +1 Ooze)
G2: Meddling Mage into Shardless getting Abrupt Decay, into Abrupt Decay and another Shardless and a Fatal Push. Didn't find my own Decays. 0-2
3-1

Round 5 vs Death and Taxes
G1: Played some elves, hardcasted a Hoof. 1-0
(-1 Arbor, -1 Heritage, -2 Nettle, -1 Visionary, ++4 Decay, 1 Elite
G2: Same thing as game 1. 2-0
4-1

Round 5: Draw
4-1-1

Top 8 vs BUG (Same opponent as R2)
G1: Quick NO -> Hoof won me the game. 1-0
(-3 NO, -1 Hoof, -1 Arbor, -1 Nettle, -1 Heritage, +4 Decay, +2 Nissa, +1 Ooz)
G2: Grindy, but I got 2 Deathrite my opponent couldn't find an answer to. They did the last 15 damage by themselves. 2-0

Top 4 vs Miracles
G1. Grindy game, I got my opponent to 2 then Terminus + Mentor stabilized. Could have dealt one more damage that might have won me the game (opponent fetched to 1 and found the terminus) but I wanted to save my Symbiote. Also platyed Zenith for Deathrite through a counterbalance, If I had chosen Visionary the EE would have removed the Counterbalance on the board. I still think it's correct to go for the one turn clock there, giving my opponent the fewest outs possible to interact with it.
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G2: Top -> Counterbalance. I tried a cute play to Decay the top when my opponent tried to put it on top, but opponent had a second top on top of their deck. 0-2

Very happy with my tournament overall. Silkweaver Elite over preformed today, I think it might be the real deal. Didn't see any Delvers, but it was very still valuable. Ended up winning a Leovold and a Sanctum Prelate, so not to shabby :)

Thanks for the post ^^ and congrats on a good tourney.

Could you tell us a bit more about the Silkweaver?

i am currently learning how to play legacy, coming from mainly playing modern. made the switch due to more versatility of being able to play, my work schedule bounces everywhere. with that said i have decided to make my modern G/B elves into legacy build. i would appreciate any feedback i can get. my current build list consists of....

Creatures
1x Llanowar Elves (plan on replacing with birchlore ranger)
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Heritage Druid
4x Nettle Sentinel
4x Quirion Ranger
4x Wirewood Symbiote
4x Elvish Visionary
1x Reclamation Sage
2x Craterhoof Behemoth

Spells
4x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Natural Order
4x Beck//Call (cant afford glimpse of nature after getting NO.. due in the future on getting Glimpses though)

Land
1x Misty Rainforest
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Pendelhaven (going to be replace with a 2nd Dryad Arbor once found)
1x Breeding Pool
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Swamp
5x Forest

Sideboard
2x Pithing Needle
2x Thoughtseize
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Thrun, the Last Troll (going to be replaced with Progenitus)
1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Beast Within (going to be replaced with Reclamation Sage)
1x Stain the Mind (going to be replaced with Natural Order)
4x Abrupt Decay (would like to replace 1 for a Gaddock Teeg)

@afifthofjack: You're running way too many lands. You only need 14 non-Cradle (and non-Arbor, for deckbuilding purposes you should consider it a creature and not a land) land. The rest should just be gas.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord_of_Rivendell

Thanks for the post ^^ and congrats on a good tourney.

Could you tell us a bit more about the Silkweaver?

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Silkweaver did what I wanted it to do. Elite / Symbiote did a very good 'Best Friends' impersonation more than once. It's also relevant to be able to board out a Visionary or two in certain matchups, but still have the ability to go for the card advantage engine.

The revolt was very easy to get online with lots of ways to turn it on. Fetch lands, ranger, symbiote and legend-ruling cradle is probably the best.

I'm going to try a Elite-heavy build of Chaos Elves tomorrow at my LGS to evalute the card more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by afifthofjack

i am currently learning how to play legacy, coming from mainly playing modern. made the switch due to more versatility of being able to play, my work schedule bounces everywhere. with that said i have decided to make my modern G/B elves into legacy build. i would appreciate any feedback i can get. my current build list consists of....

Creatures
1x Llanowar Elves (plan on replacing with birchlore ranger)
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Heritage Druid
4x Nettle Sentinel
4x Quirion Ranger
4x Wirewood Symbiote
4x Elvish Visionary
1x Reclamation Sage
2x Craterhoof Behemoth

Spells
4x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Natural Order
4x Beck//Call (cant afford glimpse of nature after getting NO.. due in the future on getting Glimpses though)

Land
1x Misty Rainforest
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Pendelhaven (going to be replace with a 2nd Dryad Arbor once found)
1x Breeding Pool
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Swamp
5x Forest

Sideboard
2x Pithing Needle
2x Thoughtseize
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Thrun, the Last Troll (going to be replaced with Progenitus)
1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Beast Within (going to be replaced with Reclamation Sage)
1x Stain the Mind (going to be replaced with Natural Order)
4x Abrupt Decay (would like to replace 1 for a Gaddock Teeg)

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1) Cut the two swamps. They're completely unnecessary. Use one of those slots for the 2nd Dryad Arbor when you get it instead of cutting Pendelhaven. Black Mana is rarely needed game 1 especially if you aren't running any maindeck Abrupt Decay. Two black duals plus Birchlore Rangers is usually enough black post board. Use the second cut swamp for a Birchlore Ranger.
2) Part of what makes Glimpse so great is Gaea's Cradle which it doesn't look like you're going to have either of, at least for the time being. I bring this up for two reasons. First you are going to struggle quite a bit even casting Beck, let alone having excess mana to cast other creatures once you do. Secondly Glimpse draws a card on casting where Beck requires a creature to ETB. This may seem minor but you're going to run into a lot more issues of people allowing the Beck to resolve and counter the creature giving you no card draw. I actually think it might be better to just replace the Beck with more of a toolbox until you can get Glimpse. Perhaps maindeck Scooze, Gaddock Teeg and two Abrupt Decay instead...or a 4th Natural Order when you get it. I would also consider 1 Shaman of the Pack here. Don't worry about needing white for Teeg, the plan is to cast him off Birchlore or through a GSZ.
3) Sideboard If you can get 3 Cabal Therapy (relatively cheap) I would replace the Stain the Mind, Beast Within, and assuming you cut the Beck the slot opened by Scavenging Ooze.
4) Until you get a Progenitus I would consider running a 3rd Thoughtseize as well instead of Thrun.

In short your list will definitely get some of the quick Natural Order wins, but it will be at a lower rate without Cradle. You still will be able to grind decently, though bouncing Overgrown Tomb with Quirion Ranger is a bit more painful. I really fear that Beck is a not going to be even remotely effective for you and so it'd be better to just run another Forest over the Breeding Pool. That costs you a lot of value as Glimpse chains are great, but I think the toolbox will offer you more value than Beck will.

Those are my opinions on how to get the most out of what you have. Hopefully it helps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Echelon

@afifthofjack: You're running way too many lands. You only need 14 non-Cradle (and non-Arbor, for deckbuilding purposes you should consider it a creature and not a land) land. The rest should just be gas.

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Some players even go down to 13 lands... I think that's crazy personally, I like to have at least 7 fetches, so that leaves me 3 flex spots which I personally have on Pendelhaven, Cavern, and Trop, and a 15th land in an 8th fetch. After playing 14 and 15 land variations, I personally like the 15 land ones a lot more, mostly since I have more keepable openers and deathrite makes mana more often. I am also crazy and play 1 Arbor with NO, but I hate drawing arbor so much.

[QUOTE=afifthofjack;988557]i am currently learning how to play legacy, coming from mainly playing modern. made the switch due to more versatility of being able to play, my work schedule bounces everywhere. with that said i have decided to make my modern G/B elves into legacy build. i would appreciate any feedback i can get. my current build list consists of....

I am sorry to be that guy but you are going to really feel underpowered without the glimpse and cradles.... the deck is able to win from those two cards. you are playing a green midrange deck now with NO for a hoof win occaisonally. its worth investing. the first time you play the mirror or need to be "faster" than an opponent you will understand

@Prdgychild: W/o Cradle is doable. Just sub a set of Birchlores. I've top 8'ed a local on 14 fetch/Forest, Glimpse and NO. But you can't do it without Glimpse.

That being said, Cradle is better.

Very happy on the first results with silkweaver elite. As expected... :D

Can yall provide some specific play-by-play descriptions of this Elite dude being useful in actual game situations?

I'm curious to hear more about this new thangthang.

i'm cautiously optimistic about the rise in bug decks. as long as fatal push doesnt change the tempo game too much in their favor, they've all been very good matchups for me, admittedly in limited sample size. anyone else think the meta is swinging in a favorable direction recently?

Yeah would love to hear how Silkweaver Elite plays out, and whether he is worth playing main deck or sideboard.

I've been running through the MTGO leagues quite a bit lately, (Here's my list if anyone is interested https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/555024#paper). The card that I feel has been very lackluster as of late has been Gaddock Teeg. Too many times his impact on the game (as well as how fragile he is) is not powerful enough to really warrant a spot against Combo (Storm) or Miracles, especially since Miracle's gameplan has shifted to a more midrange plan, relying more heavily on finishing/storming out with Monastery Mentor than a big Entreat flip off Top.

The card that has overly impressed me has been Shaman of the Pack, too many times I have been able to GSZ for 3 against an unsuspecting opponent and drained them out to finish the game. With the introduction of Silkweaver Elite (cmc 3) I feel his value only rises.

I have also played around with Leovold a couple of times and I feel to effectively gain value out of him Elves needs to run x2 copies, one main, one side (with x1-2 Nissa if possible). Too often he is too fragile when he is run out initially, and having two copies allows his effect to actually be useful in the matchups where he is needed. Elves is largely built on redundancy and creating an easy target for our opponent's is one of the reason I have failed to adopt him permanently though his upside is very powerful.

I don't have many high level results with Elves in general, but playing with Silkweaver Elite online for the past couple of days, he is more often than not just an overcosted Visionary #5, and that's enough to really be worth playing at certain times.

I think his true power and the reason why the higher cost isn't much of an issue is just the overall flexibility of the card. Sometimes he acts as a Visionary, sometimes he acts as a Nettle Sentinel (when we need a 2/2 beater/blocker), sometimes he blocks a flier like Delver, Griselbrand, or Marit Lage.

The card isn't ever THE card I want to be casting, but there are so many situations where I can afford to throw him down and get a specific benefit I need in a given game to get another turn or move one step closer to winning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jjkbb2005

I've been running through the MTGO leagues quite a bit lately, (Here's my list if anyone is interested https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/555024#paper). The card that I feel has been very lackluster as of late has been Gaddock Teeg. Too many times his impact on the game (as well as how fragile he is) is not powerful enough to really warrant a spot against Combo (Storm) or Miracles, especially since Miracle's gameplan has shifted to a more midrange plan, relying more heavily on finishing/storming out with Monastery Mentor than a big Entreat flip off Top.

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I haven't liked Teeg either- shutting off our GSZ/NO against storm is often extremely relevant- they can just pop it EOT and go for an unimpeded combo.

Been testing a BUG 2-NO list that tries to play the chaos elves game with maindeck decays after we talked about the added SB flexability it provides at the GP- it's also running a Leo and WRP, who have both been decent (although no 2nd leo out of the SB because they're expensive as hell online. I've similarly been pretty impressed by Shaman of the Pack, who's won me quite a few grindy games. The real surprise from the blue splash has been an Edric- figured he'd be a bit of a win-more card, but he's really been pulling his weight. The 75 has been very solid against miracles and BG/x with the addition of several "stand-alone" threats that are more impactful than our typical 1/1s.

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Originally Posted by TGCRequiem

1) Cut the two swamps. They're completely unnecessary. Use one of those slots for the 2nd Dryad Arbor when you get it instead of cutting Pendelhaven. Black Mana is rarely needed game 1 especially if you aren't running any maindeck Abrupt Decay. Two black duals plus Birchlore Rangers is usually enough black post board. Use the second cut swamp for a Birchlore Ranger.
2) Part of what makes Glimpse so great is Gaea's Cradle which it doesn't look like you're going to have either of, at least for the time being. I bring this up for two reasons. First you are going to struggle quite a bit even casting Beck, let alone having excess mana to cast other creatures once you do. Secondly Glimpse draws a card on casting where Beck requires a creature to ETB. This may seem minor but you're going to run into a lot more issues of people allowing the Beck to resolve and counter the creature giving you no card draw. I actually think it might be better to just replace the Beck with more of a toolbox until you can get Glimpse. Perhaps maindeck Scooze, Gaddock Teeg and two Abrupt Decay instead...or a 4th Natural Order when you get it. I would also consider 1 Shaman of the Pack here. Don't worry about needing white for Teeg, the plan is to cast him off Birchlore or through a GSZ.
3) Sideboard If you can get 3 Cabal Therapy (relatively cheap) I would replace the Stain the Mind, Beast Within, and assuming you cut the Beck the slot opened by Scavenging Ooze.
4) Until you get a Progenitus I would consider running a 3rd Thoughtseize as well instead of Thrun.

In short your list will definitely get some of the quick Natural Order wins, but it will be at a lower rate without Cradle. You still will be able to grind decently, though bouncing Overgrown Tomb with Quirion Ranger is a bit more painful. I really fear that Beck is a not going to be even remotely effective for you and so it'd be better to just run another Forest over the Breeding Pool. That costs you a lot of value as Glimpse chains are great, but I think the toolbox will offer you more value than Beck will.

Those are my opinions on how to get the most out of what you have. Hopefully it helps.

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Thank u for advice and will give it a shot. its gonna be a long b4 getting craddles they are like a billion dollars. and should just cut beck.. i havent tested much, maybe 5 games total. i am amped and working hard to get this finished. i appreciate the advice that you all are giving me. thank you guys

Isn't Rishkar, Peema Renegage just a much more powerful card if you're looking at new 3 drops for a Chaos-Elves type build that attempts chip away rather than full on Glimpse/NO?

I get that the other guy can trade with a delver...but it doesnt look very exciting for 3, even with the cantrip.

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Originally Posted by Absolutflipz

Isn't Rishkar, Peema Renegage just a much more powerful card if you're looking at new 3 drops for a Chaos-Elves type build that attempts chip away rather than full on Glimpse/NO?

I get that the other guy can trade with a delver...but it doesnt look very exciting for 3, even with the cantrip.

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trading with delver, chumping or blanking griselbrand/marit lage/inkmoth with a symbiote are all super relevant

Quote:

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Originally Posted by resum

trading with delver, chumping or blanking griselbrand/marit lage/inkmoth with a symbiote are all super relevant

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You could also do this already with that 1 mana Elf that gets +3/0 when blocking a flier (Ezuri's Archers) -- you dont get the card with revolt triggers, but it's also just a 1-mana elf vs a 3 mana 2/2 that's a lot more mana-intensive.

Not trying to be adversarial and merely pointing out why it may be that the card isn't the end-all, be all.

Rishkar seems a lot more powerful to me and interesting to explore. Both might not even make it as 3drops are quite expensive.

i think the big advantage to elite over any other option is that it's playable as a bad 5th elvish visionary when the reach isnt relevant. that means you can maindeck it and it's never completely embarrassing. rishkar may have some legs, both as a beater and a combo enabler that i was looking into exploring.