Bigger question is...why would you risk tapping yourself out playing against combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Windmill
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Bigger question is...why would you risk tapping yourself out playing against combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Windmill
I was thinking about a faster clock. Because if they try to go off, fail... from my (very limited) experience, it isn't too hard for them to try to go off again.Quote:
Originally Posted by KobeBryan
So here are some yes/no questions if anyone would be kind enough to answer them for me :smile:
- T1 Omnitell, on the play: vial in hand, and swan song. Do you jam the vial or keep the mana open?
- T1 Omnitell on the draw: vial and swan song in hand. Jam via, yes or no?
- T2 Omnitell on the play: swan song and master of the pearl trident in hand. Jam MoPT, yes or no?
- T2 Omnitell on the draw: swan song and master of the pearl trident in hand. Jam MoPT, yes or no?
- T1 Reanimator on the play: vial in hand, and swan song. Do you jam the vial or keep the mana open?
- T1 Reanimator on the draw: vial and swan song in hand. Jam via, yes or no?
- T2 Reanimator on the play: swan song and master of the pearl trident in hand. Jam MoPT, yes or no?
- T2 Reanimator on the draw: swan song and master of the pearl trident in hand. Jam MoPT, yes or no?
So far I am thinking...
- Yes
- No
- No
- No
- No
- No
- No
- No
Problem is still that you need the superior board position. You can't put a standstill on the board when your opponent has jammed a Delver, Mongoose or a vial of their own (Goblins and D&T). It is so situational that I really think that it would be better in the board, even in your list.Quote:
Originally Posted by benthetenor
I'm also not convinced that Swan Song should be the counter maindecked if you don't play daze. The 2/2 token means nothing against combo, sure. But it makes the counter almost useless against creature-based decks. Do we really want to give those decks yet ANOTHER threat? If you're only going to use it for combo, in my meta I think I'd rather play Envelope since no one plays Sneak Attack. Otherwise, I'd rather play Spell Pierce I think.
If you have a Vial in play then there is no board position from the opponent that you won't eventually overwhelm. If they have a Delver of Secrets and you have a Lord of Atlantis, then jamming a Standstill might still be correct as once you get Mutavaults going you're going to crush them. Nimble Mongoose is the same situation, except that you can block the Mongoose. You (specifically you, Windmill) play twice as many creatures as any Delver list, which means it's much more likely that you're going to have a superior board position than that they will. They are quicker to the board, but we are stronger on the board. It just means you won't usually play Standstill on turn 2, unless of course you went turn 1 Vial.
At it's best, Merfolk is not a deck where you just jam creatures until the opponent is dead. If that's the only gear you have, then you'd be much better off playing Goblins or Zoo. Every card in every well-constructed deck is situational. That is a positive, not a negative. Lightning Bolt is removal or a racing spell. Spell Pierce is a counterspell or a mana sink or terrible. Tarmogoyf is a big wall or a big beater. Wasteland is a mana source or a Stone Rain. Ponder sets up your hand to combo or to control. Standstill draws you three cards or pitches to Force of Will when you're behind. I could go on and on (and on). Being "situational" means that you can adapt to what your opponent is doing, rather than going down one linear path and making them beat you. No deck is going to win for very long if it has only one linear gameplan.
The entire point of putting Brainstorm into this deck is so that you can dig towards your situational cards when they're good and shuffle them away when they are not.
I think you always need a clock. So far for me yes for 1,2,3,5,6 and no for 4, 7 and 8. Sometimes they will win T2, but more often they will wait a bit to assemble their combo, then they will wait until your clock is deadly to assemble back-up, as they have a way better draw engine. So I play much more aggro than you. And I think too that giving the token is terrible as it slows our clck a lot (even with islanwalk, without two lords you are attacking with one creature less?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Windmill
Against reanimator, it depends on what they played T1 and what their graveyard looks like.
Cheers guys - I appreciate the help :)
I really love Merfolk, but the deck is starting to suck in my meta. We might get 16-20 players max. Well, I'm now looking at a minimum of 1 affinity, 1 burn (it kills me 1 turn faster than I can kill him), 1 MUD (don't know if this is good or not, I just faced it for the first time ever and lost to T3 Eldrazi and wurmcoil), 1 mono red goblins and 1 nic fit. In addition I might even face an aggro-version of elves occasionally. And at any time, we could end up having extra affinity and Jund in the mix. Ehhhh... rest is mostly delver and combo decks.
I can't afford a new deck right now. Any ideas on how to sideboard? I need to go 3-1-1 to get into the top 4. Other blue decks tend to top 8, maybe Nic Fit/Affinity sometimes cracks it. So if I could improve my match-up against 2/4 of these decks, it'll help my chances of top 4ing, which is my goal.
with that meta...you play ANT
There is no correct line of play in what you listed. You need to gauge the board state, the cards in your hands and whether you have anything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Windmill
Lets say turn 1, you have vial, fow, and a daze, yes, you would cast it.
lets say on the draw, turn 1, you have vial fow and a daze, yes you would cast it
it really depends on what you have...its not a chart where you just go off of.
So... we're thinking a transformative sideboard into ANT? :wink: I'd love to play ANT. In 3-4 months I'll probably upgrade to something new.Quote:
Originally Posted by KobeBryan
Right now: how about beating Goblins and Burn? Both are run by inexperienced pilots. Chill or BEB hits both!
both are inherently bad matchups. no matter how you board, you will not get over 50%Quote:
Originally Posted by Windmill
If you play chalice of the void in the side suddenly burn is not a bad matchup anymore
Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.
What other matches should I side chalice in against?Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtk3
Null rod is damn good against both MUD & Affi while not bad against nic-fit/gob. You will have to board out vials. All of them are bad MU anyway but rod is gamebreaker enough to give you free win against affi almost each time it hits the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Windmill
ANT, TES, Belcher: @0 stops led, chrome mox, lotus petal, @1 all cantrips and most ritualsQuote:
Originally Posted by Windmill
Reanimator: @1 stops all cantrips, entomb, reanimate
RUG, Patriot: @1 RUG is left with only goyf and fow as castable cards in their deck, vs Patriot most of all it stops swords to plowshares and lightning bolt, but also cantrips and delver
Jund: if you are not playing surgical extraction, @2 it helps against punishing fire (but surgical is better)
These are the first decks that I think of, but there may be others. Personally I play 2-3 chalice in my side.
Combo wombo. You're scared of them killing you before you have a chance to set up. Chalice for 0 and 1 stops them from LED/Petalling for the super fast kills, and 1 stops them digging and casting Rituals. It's not a bad match-up by any means, but it puts your countermagic on stopping Echoing Truth/Chain of Vapors as nothing else matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Windmill
RE: Transforming into ANT. You could play some Suspend stuff to add to Storm count, and just hold Vials until you go off, right?
EDIT: In case anyone is wondeing why I'm suddenly posting on this thread; my g/f played this deck at GP Paris. She started out at 1-2, then ended up winning until being at 6-2, losing her final match of the day to miss out on D2 after playing Legacy for a month. I am very interested in playing Merfolk at some point soon. We played Standstill and it was a house all day.
Hi all,
I'm planning to run the following list at the side event of GP Montreal this weekend (any one else going?), I'd appreciate any of your comments:
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Silvergil Adept
4 True-Name Nemesis
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Preordain
2 Daze
2 Dismember
13 Islands
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Mutavault
Side:
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Swan Song
2 Pithing Needle
1 Echoing Truth
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Manriki-Gusari
3 Misdirection
A few comments:
- I've decided to try Preordain for the same reason as some have advocated using Brainstorm. In some matchups you really want to find TNN or FoW quickly, and it also helps for scrying away late lands/vials and with mulligans. I have dropped one Cavern for an island, but i'm not sure about this.
- I've split Daze and Dismember 2-2 but that's just because I'm expecting a lot of fair decks. This list has some weaknesses against combo, as some of you have recently discussed here.
- The sideboard is still work in progress, and i'm strongly considering Chalice of the void and Grafdigger's cage.
I would trade those Misdirections for 3 Submerges. They are also useful in the MU you side in Misdirection (BUG, Jund...), but also useful against other problematic decks (Elves, Maverick, Explorer Pod, Threshold...)Quote:
Originally Posted by dinosaurus
Jund and BUG have became much better MU's with TNN, but I don't think that list can't beat Elves or Maverick. I wouldn't take the risk.
After quite some playtesting I am confident about saying that Merfolk should leave the Temporoad eventually.
Noone does it better than Delver, and no matter how much you try to make it work, Tempo-Folk will always be mediocre now.
Its about time to put those Dazes, Wastelands, Cursecatchers and Stifles into the binder again and rebuild the deck.
Here is a list I had quite some success with recently, even tough I am convinced that this is by far not the best yet:
10 Islands
4 Mutavault
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Silvergill Adept
3 Merrow Reejerey
4 True-Name Nemesis
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Aether Vial
3 Dismember
3 Standstill
3 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
SB:
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
4 Swan Song
3 Flusterstorm
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Misdirection
1 Force of Will
So as you can clearly see, I attempted to go down the Landstillroad with some Fish in it. It may seem strange at first sight that there is no 1drop in a Vialdeck, but since all the 1 drop fishes suck, I was happy to have a manland as my first creature to slam on the table followed up by Vial/Standstill/Dismember quite a bit. 8 manlands seem greedy and excessive, but combined with Phantasmal Image(who proved to be an allstar in this list) you can attack from a very different angle your opponents might not give credit for. You just can't run out of creatures, as you are splitting between Merfolk and lands, who happen to gain occassional benefits from each other while your opponent can't hate you out effectively. Its a huge dilemma for them. Should they waste your manlands or your cavern? Situations came up where my opponent boarded in Engineered Plague to call Merfolk, just to be surrounded by multiple Mishra's Factorys, so he called for Assembly-Worker instead and then my sandbagged lords came into action. Not to mention the manlands dodge Sweepers quite good. And then there is Standstill. Standstill is a blowout. Standstill slows down the game to your advantage. Standstill leads to crucial misplays from the opponent. Standstill is boss with 8 manlands and Vial in the same deck. This list also runs 3 Dismember main to have some spotremoval to make up for basically no counters, the lifetotals don't matter. These are basically the untypical parts, the rest of the choices are kind of self-explaining i guess. Combo is not good G1, but it becomes much easier after boarding. You still have a good shot at game1, as they will most likely still play around cards like Daze/Cursecatcher that you don't even play.
So here is that, so far so good. If anyone wants to make this monster even better with me, you are welcome to discuss different choices. Especially the sideboard.
Cheers
Really, really like the concept!Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoSha
I also think it is time to put aside the 'tempo cards', and play in a more mid-aggro way...
simply we have no 1-drops competitive enough, as if we have available in 2/3 cmc,
I was working on a similar list with quite good results, although I admit not having the audacity to play 8 manlands, what results you are getting?
On the other hand I always liked thassa in this deck, what's your opinion of it?
PD: Like the sideboard too, i may also put 2 spreading seas that is very good against fair decks
So then....you took out the one drops for three drops and put in Dismember for Daze? And made the mana worse? I'm not really sure how cutting one-drops makes your deck more aggressive, since the most important part of an aggro deck is the curve, which you've pretty well neglected. Counting the man-lands as two drops that you have to pay for every turn, you have 0 creatures at 1, 22 at 2, and 7 at 3. That's a pretty bad curve, since it means you can't drop a creature turn 1, then you can't drop 2 creatures at once until at least turn 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoSha
If you want to play an aggro deck that has a poor game 1 against combo, play Goblins. That deck is much better at curving out and getting a lot of damage on the board very quickly, it has actual removal and card advantage, it plays more Aether Vials (Goblin Lackey) and with only 3 Force of Will main your odds against combo game 1 are just as bad as being a Goblin's player. Goblins is just better at being an aggro deck that boards into a lot of combo hate, because it's creatures are better and it cheats on mana better and it's exponentially faster to the board, which actually gives it a shot against some combo decks game 1.
If you have to board in 10+ cards in a matchup that's traditionally good for the type of deck that you're playing, then you're doing something wrong.