All B/R update speculation.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds

I dunno Phyrexian Dreadnaught is still a 12/12 for 1.

I mean that's a lot of creature for one mana.

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It's likely in need of a ban now actually, it's colourless and so combos with Eldrazi Mimic.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

It's likely in need of a ban now actually, it's colourless and so combos with Eldrazi Mimic.

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I think you're being sarcastic. I hope you're being sarcastic.

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Originally Posted by btm10

I think you're being sarcastic. I hope you're being sarcastic.

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T1 Sol Land, Mimic
t2, dreadnaught, green source berserk

Or
T1: eye, mimic, mimic
T2: land, Dreadnaught.

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Originally Posted by supremePINEAPPLE

I recommend anyone interested in a recruiter unban put together food chain goblins in vintage online and then attempt to combo out without feeling suicidal.

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I do not own any power, and only have 1 Taiga, but have everything else for FCG (physical cards mind you)
I assembled it as a "casual" deck a while back (something to old fish to get my mind going, I currently have Legacy Doomsday built for this purpose) and found stacking the piles not that bad physically, but on MODO it could easily be excruciating.
I also noticed how much faster it got once you started to know the piles.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Oh, we are back to "SDT as a card is not the reason why Miracles matches go to time, but the inexperienced players"? Yeah, because just the fact that some people can play with card X or deck Y like with their own schlong, doesn't mean there is no logistic Problem overall. I have seen people puzzling 5+ min about Doomsday piles and I have seen people wasting 10+ minutes per game stacking their deck with Recruiters. The effective difference between the two cards is, that Doomsday does not stack 20+ cards several times in a single match like Recruiter is used to do.

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The problem is not the deck, it is players not realizing that they do not have the skills to play the deck in a timely manner.
and SDT is a false equivalence, since it is multiple activation per game, and possibly per turn, with many players activating it to often and taking to long per activation. while recruiter should be once most games, sometimes twice.
The real issue with these long activations is not the card, but that the tournament rules need to be written and enforced to place a reasonable limit on the length of activations and call stalling on someone who activates top more times then needed.

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Originally Posted by June 07 DCI Tournament Rules

24. Midgame Shuffling Time Limit
A reasonable time limit will be allowed for all shuffling and deck-searching that occurs during a game. Player should be allowed thirty seconds to conduct simple searches; more complicated searches may be allowed more time at the Judge’s discretion.

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There was also a section placing a time limit on side boarding/preparing for the next game in a match.
I can not find anything like this in the current rules, and it is something that should be there.
Remember around when Khans came out, and a guy got caught on stream cheat shuffling his opponents deck to win a SCG tournament. My first thought on seeing that was noticing how long he was shuffling the deck for. cheating like that is harder if there is a time limit placed on shuffling your decks that is actually enforced.

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Originally Posted by btm10

I think you're being sarcastic. I hope you're being sarcastic.

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Eye, Mimic mimic, pass, dreadnaught kill you

Broke the format guys. Eat a dick mark rosewater

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

It's likely in need of a ban now actually, it's colourless and so combos with Eldrazi Mimic.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds

Eye, Mimic mimic, pass, dreadnaught kill you

Broke the format guys. Eat a dick mark rosewater

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First thing I thought when I saw this was "I can play Torpor Orb to make Dreadnought stick around and that's colorless, this deck is awesome!" Then I remembered that Torpor Orb stops Eldrazi Mimic from triggering and got sad.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds

Eye, Mimic mimic, pass, dreadnaught kill you
Broke the format guys. Eat a dick mark rosewater

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I can't tell if comments like this are serious.
Two-turn 4-card combos that lose to Forked Bolt and Daze are less scary than a T1 natural-flip Delver.

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Originally Posted by tescrin

I can't tell if comments like this are serious.

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I can't imagine anybody is being serious.

Edit - but I guess I vaguely recall once reading that turn one double Black Vise on the play would wreck the format! You never know I guess.

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Originally Posted by tescrin

I can't tell if comments like this are serious.
Two-turn 4-card combos that lose to Forked Bolt and Daze are less scary than a T1 natural-flip Delver.

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Even the 'good' version of Mimic into Dreadnought gets blown out by literally every instant speed creature removal spell in Magic - including Gut Shot.

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Originally Posted by btm10

I think you're being sarcastic. I hope you're being sarcastic.

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I was being sarcastic.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

I was being sarcastic.

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Is this response sarcastic?


Real Q:

Do you think Eternal Masters will usher in some changes to the Banned List?

I think there will be something, either coming or going, since WotC is taking a little interest in the format again...

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Originally Posted by GundamGuy

Do you think Eternal Masters will usher in some changes to the Banned List?
I think there will be something, either coming or going, since WotC is taking a little interest in the format again...

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I think they're too happy with their prisoner exchange program. It allows them to save some face by being like "hey guys!! sorry for breaking your format, here's a toy you've never gotten to play with :D"

We literally have to wait for them to break the format like.. 3+ more times to get the safe cards off the list.

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Originally Posted by GundamGuy

Is this response sarcastic?


Real Q:

Do you think Eternal Masters will usher in some changes to the Banned List?

I think there will be something, either coming or going, since WotC is taking a little interest in the format again...

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I wouldn't mind Earthcraft or Mana Drain being unbanned.

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Originally Posted by Meekrab

I wouldn't mind Earthcraft or Mana Drain being unbanned.

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Earthcraft would likely be safe; Mana Drain would be an absolute disaster.

Unban Recruiter. Make Legacy great again!

Or something

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Originally Posted by btm10

Earthcraft would likely be safe; Mana Drain would be an absolute disaster.

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Mana Drain on Force of Will would probably happen somewhat frequently, which I imagine is quite the blowout.
Also of note:
* Delve cards (Gurmag pretty much)
* Craterhoof/GSZ in elves

Are there other common/fun instances of 5+ CMC? (I realize that even getting 2 free mana is pretty insane.)

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Originally Posted by tescrin

...

Are there other common/fun instances of 5+ CMC? (I realize that even getting 2 free mana is pretty insane.)

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Dark Petition,Ad Nauseam,Through the Breach, Fireblast and Terminus

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Originally Posted by jrsthethird

Emrakul? Just don't forget that you have mana coming after Enchantress durdles for another 10 minute turn.

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Emrakul can't be countered. Which is of course why we're casting it :wink:.

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Originally Posted by simdude

Emrakul can't be countered. Which is of course why we're casting it :wink:.

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Scragnoth is so much cheaper then. ;)

Will we see a reduction in cost of Thorn of Amethyst after an Eldrazi ban in Modern?

Since wizards is fine with $900 Tabernacles and so on, does anyone else think we could see a Library of Alexandria unban? I don't think Mana Drain would be good for Legacy, but that's not sacred due to "it's worth too much to unban" anymore either.

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Originally Posted by btm10

Earthcraft would likely be safe; Mana Drain would be an absolute disaster.

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Mana drain would be fine...

...just let me know before they quintuple in price.

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Originally Posted by Octopusman

Since wizards is fine with $900 Tabernacles and so on, does anyone else think we could see a Library of Alexandria unban? I don't think Mana Drain would be good for Legacy, but that's not sacred due to "it's worth too much to unban" anymore either.

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I find it highly unlikely that anything that only helps blue (tempo or control) will be unbanned. WOTC is aware that it is the runaway favorite for best color in Legacy and anything that strengthens it further would likely be a disaster for the format.

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Originally Posted by Octopusman

Since wizards is fine with $900 Tabernacles and so on, does anyone else think we could see a Library of Alexandria unban? I don't think Mana Drain would be good for Legacy, but that's not sacred due to "it's worth too much to unban" anymore either.

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Tabernacle is more a product of circumstance and less desire on anyone's part for that price. Not being able to print more kind of locks up the options for doing anything about it.

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Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar

I find it highly unlikely that anything that only helps blue (tempo or control) will be unbanned. WOTC is aware that it is the runaway favorite for best color in Legacy and anything that strengthens it further would likely be a disaster for the format.

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Considering how many Wastelands there are in Legacy, I'd actually say that Library wouldn't really be that great (I mean, not format breaking). Of course, it would still randomly steal games where you are on the draw and your opponent doesn't have or play Wasteland though. Pretty sure there is a 0% chance this is unbanned. It's really dumb as a 4 of. Not really sour grapes, I own 3, mind you.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds

Mana drain would be fine...

...just let me know before they quintuple in price.

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I don't know, I think Mana Drain is actually a little too good. It's very punishing versus decks that don't have countermagic to fight back with and would probably force the format back to Red being the default splash color for everything, just to get Pyroblast/REB effects.


I still think it's ridiculous that Earthcraft is still on the list. That and Mind Twist should probably come off, finally.

Library is probably fine as a 1-of in legacy, because it promote going second quite a bit and going second in this format is a HUGE negative, and it's a tempo blackhole, which again, it's hard to afford in this format.

As a four of though? Chaining libraries is the epitome stupidly overpowered. The card ain't even legendary.
Also, library is essentially a piece of power that see 0 play. To go from that, to a piece of power played in a somewhat popular format as a 4-of? It could very well become the most expensive card in magic. I'm not thrilled.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds

Mana drain would be fine... ...just let me know before they quintuple in price.

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Eternal masters, pls wizards one time

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Originally Posted by Gheizen64

Library is probably fine as a 1-of in legacy, because it promote going second quite a bit and going second in this format is a HUGE negative, and it's a tempo blackhole, which again, it's hard to afford in this format.

As a four of though? Chaining libraries is the epitome stupidly overpowered. The card ain't even legendary.
Also, library is essentially a piece of power that see 0 play. To go from that, to a piece of power played in a somewhat popular format as a 4-of? It could very well become the most expensive card in magic. I'm not thrilled.

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Well, like I said, I'm not advocating for it's unbanning, nor do I think it would ever happen, or should.

I'm just saying, if it say, had been unbanned at the dawn of Legacy, chances are good it wouldn't be dominant, especially now with how widespread Wasteland is.

That being said, I would pick up a set of Earthcrafts and Mind Twists sooner rather than later if I didn't already have sets, because I feel it's only a matter of time until those are unbanned. Like Black Vise and Worldgorger before them, there is often a good deal of doom-saying on how they'll ruin the format, but chances are really good they are actually unplayable to border-line playable.

Realistically speaking, I don't see any changes.

People used to complain about Miracles, now Eldrazi just smack that deck around, so I guess Wizards indirectly answered to Miracles haters' complaints, by accident perhaps. If Eldrazi ever becomes dominant, which I doubt, then we would have discussion.

Modern I am sure we will see changes, Legacy no and Vintage... Well I hope not.

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Originally Posted by H

Well, like I said, I'm not advocating for it's unbanning, nor do I think it would ever happen, or should.

I'm just saying, if it say, had been unbanned at the dawn of Legacy, chances are good it wouldn't be dominant, especially now with how widespread Wasteland is.

That being said, I would pick up a set of Earthcrafts and Mind Twists sooner rather than later if I didn't already have sets, because I feel it's only a matter of time until those are unbanned. Like Black Vise and Worldgorger before them, there is often a good deal of doom-saying on how they'll ruin the format, but chances are really good they are actually unplayable to border-line playable.

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I have two Earthcrafts in my Enchantress deck right now, just like I do before every update. I think they'll take Mind Twist off the list first, for what little that's worth.

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Originally Posted by H

I don't know, I think Mana Drain is actually a little too good. It's very punishing versus decks that don't have countermagic to fight back with and would probably force the format back to Red being the default splash color for everything, just to get Pyroblast/REB effects.

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I wasn't serious :P

That said, Im not entirely sure that it is too good but it could lead to the scenario you mentioned (moreso then say earthcraft or mind twist), and not worth finding out if it is, and again, suddenly everyone needs 4 mana drains.

Isn't the unofficial rule of thumb: one on, one off? I can't really see something getting the hammer in Legacy, so no unbanning of [insert card-name here], right?

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Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds

I wasn't serious :P

That said, Im not entirely sure that it is too good but it could lead to the scenario you mentioned (moreso then say earthcraft or mind twist), and not worth finding out if it is, and again, suddenly everyone needs 4 mana drains.

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Yeah, even price aside, it would be rather gross to just give Blue a card of that power-level really. Since I play Vintage, I own Drains, but I don't think you can ever really totally divorce some of the banned list from their prices when looking at what might come off.

You never know with this tread though, sometimes you can be having a normal, level-headed conversation about the list and next thing you know someone is trying to make absurd statements, like Balance is a perfectly acceptable card. I should have figured you were kidding though.

I think Balance is a perfectly acceptable card and it deserves to be unban.
I had a hard time just reaching the end of that statement.
Anyway, we won't see any change, legacy is healthy at the moment (imo.)

Inviato dal mio LG-D605 utilizzando Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Octopusman

Will we see a reduction in cost of Thorn of Amethyst after an Eldrazi ban in Modern?

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Modern Eldrazi doesn't regularly play Thorn, so I doubt it. Too much of the format plays a lot of creatures. It's also only a $15 card, what's the big deal?

I heard of a sensei's top banning in legacy. Interesting rumor...

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Originally Posted by Deckerator

I heard of a sensei's top banning in legacy. Interesting rumor...

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Why now, out of all times? Miracles is the top dog of the format, as ever, but at least Eldrazi can put a dent into its dominance. Banning it now would make no sense after it ruined the format for years, considering how Wizards was fine with it until now.

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Originally Posted by Deckerator

I heard of a sensei's top banning in legacy. Interesting rumor...

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And suddenly the poll becomes relevant again!

But more interesting: what could be unbanned?

(Full circle)

Unban Balance! And Strip Mine! They reprinted those cards, so they must want them as 4-ofs in Legacy. Not at all broken.