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I've used the humble card Sleep before to great effect. A turn or two is mostly all you need. I took it out during the rise of Maverick a few years ago. Don't see Teeg quite as much anymore. Maybe its time to run a couple again. Similarly I've discounted Cryptic Command in Merfolk and Legacy as far too slow, but things have changed. It may worth a little testing to see if that still holds true.
I brought the deck yesterday to a 25 people tournament and ended 1st, however I got a bye in the first round.
I was playing 3 Wastelands and 3 Preordains. I really liked them, but I'm not sure if they're better than Cosi's.
I brought 2 Ensnare in my SB but didn't have the opportunity to test it. However I'm not sure if it's better to completely give up the swarm aggro decks...Quote:
Originally Posted by beez
I top 4ed a 27 person event yesterday, lost to elves in semis (which won against miracles in the finals).
I was first after 5 rounds of swiss and the deck felt good.
My manabase was (the same as few pages back):
12 Island
4 Muta
3 Cavern
2 Waste
That was maybe one land too much even though I played 4 Nemesis, 2 Clique, 1 Jitte main.
Thinking on going back to 20 (-1 Island).
Caverns were mvp, I am not cutting those.
And the rest was just right.
It seems that my losses are always from red (burn, goblins) or green (elves) decks, nothing else is threatening so that will be adressed in next sideboard.
Went to a 24 person legacy tournament this past Saturday at Oshawa. Played this list:
12 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Aether Vial
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 True-Name Nemesis
3 Phantasmal Image
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Dismember
3 Swan Song
2 Spell Pierce
2 Pithing Needle
2 Submerge
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Carry Away
The only change I made was in the sideboard and I tried out a Carry Away instead of Manriki-Gusari. I don't know about how anybody else's experience with Manriki was but I have never seen anybody activate a Manriki ever so I figured that if I ever steal someone's equipment with Carry Away, it'll already do more than Manriki.
Quick summary:
Round 1 - Reanimator (2-0)
Round 2 - Death & Taxes (2-1)
Round 3 - Deadguy Ale (0-2)
Round 4 - Bant Deathblade (2-0)
Round 5 - Draw
Top 8 was Merfolk, Goblins, Elves, Deadguy, Death & Taxes, Canadian Thresh, Bant Dark Depths and 12 Post or TES.
Quarterfinals - Deadguy (0-2)
Highlights:
- Game 2 of round 2, I had a good advantage in the game until my opponent Enlightened Tutored for a Meekstone and that totally disrupted my game plan. Thank goodness that I had some merfolks and a Reejerey in hand so I was able to untap the merfolks that was tapped down by the Meekstone. Game 3, I was able to steal my opponent's Umezawa's Jitte with a Carry Away and ended up winning because of it. So yeah, Carry Away has already pulled it's weight! It was way better than Manriki in that situation as well since I only had two mana so if it had been Manriki, I would have been only able to cast the equipment but not equip it and then by the next turn, Jitte would have become active and I wouldn't have a creature to equip to.
- Game 1 of round 3, I punted pretty badly since he was at a really low life and I decide to attack with my team including my one lord and he blocks in such a way that he lives and also sweeps away my team. So if I didn't attack with the lord, I would have killed at least 2 of his 3 creatures while leaving all of my alive but instead, I lose 3 creatures too and then he wins the game afterwards with a hardcast Batterskull soon after. Game 2, he's at 2 life and I have a True-Name in play and he draws and slams down an Ensnaring Bridge which resolved and the he just beat me down with Lingering Souls tokens as he only has 1 to 2 cards in hand all the time.
- My match against Bant Deathblade felt like I was goldfishing as I had a Caverns in play and made all my merfolk uncounterable and just blew through his team even though he didn't have an Island in play.
- My quarterfinal opponent was the same as my round 3 opponent and again, he just steam rolled me as I mulled to 6 both games and he was able to have Mother of Runes to gum up the ground, Dark Confidant to draw extra cards and I just lost to Lingering Souls beatdown again. I was able to steal his Batterskull with Carry Away which was nice but it really just delayed the end. I felt like my only path of victory needed to be to land a turn 3 True-Name and follow it up with more True-Names or Images and I didn't draw a True-Name at all in either of our games. Oh well.
Afterthoughts:
- Carry Away was great today. I think I want to try to have 2 in the sideboard, just need to figure out which card to cut which is always difficult.
- Not sure if this top 8 is an abberation or not but it all of a sudden feels that merfolk is not a good choice anymore as other tribal decks own us plus it's very hard to interact with the lands decks without wastelands.
- Also, might need to consider adding some bounce spells in the sideboard now as it feels awful to lose to random stuff like Ensnaring Bridge and Meekstone.
I played in a 60 (56 I think) people tournament yesterday, with a list with Wastelands and Preordains.
Round 1: Food Chain 2-1
Lost one game due to tapping on turn three with Swan Song in hand, should have waited
Round 2: MUD 2-0
Here is where the Wastelands shine, haven't tested the MU before but vial was also quite good. Almost lost to a turn 2 (me on the draw) lodestone equipped with Lightning Greaves
Round 3: 12-Post 2-0
It was an easy MU, didn't let him cast Titans and just one Ulamog, which couldn't do anything against Islandwalk
Round 4: Team America 2-0
Again, Islandwalking was awesome, and even though he played a Deludge and almost lost, I managed to win by always keeping a Merfolk in hand.
Round 5 and 6: 1-1 in both rounds as I was already in the Top 8.
Top 8: 1-2
Lost to the mirror, I have to admit I haven't prepeared that MU, and he had Omar's list, with Caverns, Sowers and Mishra's factory being much more superior than my Wastelands and Preordain.
Carry Away is great but we have no way to search it, unlike Manriki.
Also, Gusari can be played as is (lame equipment) if opp does nothing fancy, while Carry can only be pitched to Force.
Manriki takes only one slot in sideboard and we are lucky if we ever find Carry on time or we play more of a narrow aura (that is a real price to pay) and have it rot.
Further, searched Batterskull can (even when we know it) ambush us mid combat (or we do not attack at all) if we have Carry. Gusari prevents that situation.
And lastly, Abrupt Decay returns equipment without asking us anything. Manriki deals with the problem for good.
You make good points but let us review the pros and cons of both cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by FANAttIC
Carry Away
Pros:
- It only takes two mana on one turn to steal their equipment.
- Does not rely on any other card so it works on an empty board on your side.
- There are very few cards that are played that destroy enchantments.
- Surprise factor.
- You can equip the equipment that you stole to your creatures.
- Pitches to Force of Will.
Cons:
- The UU casting cost sometimes is a concern in a deck that plays 8 colorless lands.
- If opponent destroys Carry Away, they get their equipment back.
- Can't be searched for.
Manriki-Gusari
Pros:
- It can be searched up via Phantasmal Image copying Stoneforge Mystic
- Casting cost is two colorless which means it's easy to cast
- You can equip it to buff up your creature if you really need it
- Actually destroys opposing equipment
Cons:
- This is in effect a two card combo. You need to equip it to a creature that no longer has summoning sickness for it to work
- No surprise factor: If you search it up with a copied Stoneforge, that means your opponent knows you have it in your hand.
- The opponent can negate the equipment's effect by either killing the creature it's equipped to or by destroying the equipment itself
- Manriki does nothing if there you control no non-image creature in play
- Mana required on one turn with vial on 2: 2 mana to cast and 1 to equip so total is 3.
- Mana required on one turn with no vial: 2 mana to cast Image, 2 mana to cast Manriki and 1 to equip so total is 5.
- The destroy effect can be stopped by cards like Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Revoker and Cursed Totem. Yes these are narrow but it has come up before.
Now if people still are not sure which card they want to play, the next time you play against some sort of stoneforge deck and get into a board position where a Jitte or Batterskull is out and you must deal with it immediately, think about which card you would actually want to topdeck to solve the problem at that moment. I think that the majority of the time, you would want to have Carry Away instead of Manriki-Gusari.
I played tonight. Went 3-1 with a fairly common build. The only strange thing would be the 3-3-2 split of Wasteland, Muta and Cavern.
What I really want to talk about was the use of Chalice of the Void in the side. I brought it in to the 3 matches I won. (Miracles, Blade and Slivers) It was a powerhouse. I had 3 copies, set it to 1 each time.
Against Miracles it meant that Top could not come down, Swords did not take out my critters and Pryoblast stayed away. Saving my own counters for the cards that mattered.
Against Blade it stopped the Deck Manipulation and Delver. That was very handy. Racing Creatures is easy when you have more of them and they have a fistful of dead cards.
Against Slivers I am lucky I had the wastelands. The deck has its own Caverns, making the card a bit less useful, but it still cuts off a large amount of there plays and left me with a speed advantage.
My last match was Punishing Jund. Turns out there is an influx of the deck since I played last. Might be time to dust off the old Chill and see what happens.
I'm curious about what you took out for bringing in the chalices
Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.
The side was:
3x Flusterstorm
3X Swansong
3x Chalice
1x Llawan
2x Relic
2x Jitte
I did not see Storm or Reanimator once and those where the decks I was expecting the most. Might cut a Flusterstorm and a Song for two Chill.
That SB focuses way too much against combo. And those games are easy, can't remember last time I lost a round against it. I'm honest.
I don't think those Flusterstorms are necesary.
I thought the same after my last tournament. The MU's I fear the most are Elves and Imperial Painter, and Chalice is good in both of them. They are also useful against Miracles, which is also dificult to beat it the player is good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Would you bring them against Sneak Show? They counter cantrips obviously, but also counter our Swang Songs which is our better card in that MU.
I haven't tested them yet but I will. If they work I think Merfolks have and edge against every deck in the format, only fearing Goblins and D&T.
On another topic, am I the only one who can't decide between Wasteland and Cavern? The mana denial plan has been working to me in the last day, but 2 weeks ago I loved Caverns, and know I'm starting to miss them again. Not sure what to do... The only land I wouldn't touch is Mutavault. (Maybe 3 copies, but never less)
Try a split if the 3 and see what you come up with. I went 3-3-2 with Cavern taking the 2 of. I found it was good. The thing I really want to land is True-Name, so the 2 of is not that bad since your likely to see 9 or 10 cards at the lest before you play it.
Also I agree, I was too ready for combo. I will adjust and restructure. I was planing to play Painter tonight but a mate needed some of the cards. This left me with a few a couple of choices and I like have the most success with fish. I kind of threw the board together based on who was playing. I need to swap the counters for Chills tho now the format has a bit of Jund floating around.
I listed more cons for Carry and more pros for Manriki. You decided that Carry is better and make your whole argument very subjective.Quote:
Originally Posted by pocari79
Even the last example is made for Carry (like closing words on trial :cool:).
But it all comes to this: our biggest problems are Batterskull and Jitte (we are only talking about equipment here). So, the most realistic scenario is that the opponent casts Mystic and search for Bskull. Natural fifth turn Bskull that can be countered is not the problem. We can all agree on that.
In your example, you have one Carry Away in your 75 and that means that you have to be really lucky to draw it in game 2. Correct me if I said something stupid.
Without changing anything else than replacing that Carry Away with Manriki Gusari in our 75, and we are presumably playing aproximately 3 Images (more or less), we have 4 ways to find that solution for Bskull even if Carry Away is sometimes superior. Our deck is great because of consistency and redundancy and Manriki option is maybe less powerful (debatable) but will (mostly) always be in our hand when we need it.
I have all the cards for merfolk decks, even fringe stuff like Sapphire Charm, Vision Charm, Tower of the Magistrate, Carry Away and Manriki-Gusari. All of those require precious slots (that we do not have) or are too narrow, except that last one. If I had the room in my sideboard I would play 4 Carry Away and never loose against Bskull, Jitte and Pro blue Sword again, but that is not realistic.
This deck should not be the reactive deck game one.
This deck needs Fuel. Like lots of fuel. something to draw cards with. That is the only thing missing. We can go the dazeless route, the wastelandless route, but no matter what, whatever you have to fight blade decks, you need more fuel.
So I've got a small local legacy coming up. I don't have time to practice anything fun or special, so I'm just going to try playing without daze and Mutavault and see if I hate it or not. I've got another tournament coming up in 2 months though that will be bigger. I feel like it would be a cool opportunity to try playing a black splash :) No one seemed to like my idea of thoughtseize main deck, but maybe that would work better than daze? I'll also run 4 x Bob in the four flexi spots. The alternative is running brainy fish and using brainstorm instead.
Anyway, here is the list I'm going to run:
Main Deck
4 x Cursecatcher
4 x Silvergill Adept
4 x Master of the Pearl Trident
4 x Lord of Atltantis
4 x Phantasmal Image
4 x True-Name Nemesis
2 x Vendilion Clique
4 x Aether Vial
4 x Force of Will
2 x Spell Pierce
4 x Preordain
4 x Cavern of Souls
4 x Mutavault
12 x Island
Sideboard
4 x Null Rod
3 x Flusterstorm
3 x Grafdiggers Cage
1 x Manriki
2 x Jitte
2 x Dismember
How will it go? Who knows, we'll see.
i've been milling around with this deck. I think we can drop curse catcher at this point.
No one has been running dazes either, no wasteland either. So what is the point of curse catcher? I've seen decks that run 4 fow and 4 spell pierce as their main combo hate MD, which is considered sufficient and is able to win game 1.
So the question is, if we take out the curse catchers and move in corsi's trickster main deck, it will give us more of a fight against the other non combo decks since we can speed up the clock.
This is what I have so far.
lands (20)
4 underground sea
6 blue fetch
4 mutavault
6 island
creatures (26)
4 cosi trickster
4 lord of atlantis
4 merfolk of the pearl
3 phantasmal image
4 TNN
4 silvergill adept
3 dark confidant
spells
4 fow
4 swan song (i am racing, i don't care if they get a 2/2, i'm beating your ass down, while giving myself a hard counter to solidify my counter wars)
2 echoing truth
4 Aether Vial
Sideboard
3 surgical extraction
2 umezawa's jitte
3 dismember
2 flusterstorm
3 spell pierce
2 submerge
Why would you add 4 USea to run Bob if you can just run Mishra's Factory and Standstill instead?
And the Echoing Truth should be swapped with the Dismembers between Main and SB in my opinion. Dismember is more valuable against annoying creatures with EtB triggers.
If black splash touched my deck I would at least have some Engineered Plague for goblins/elves and/or Dread of Night vs Mother of Runes decks.
Let us know! I like your list a lot, I'm currently playing the same 60 (except for 2 dismember instead of clique, but I like clique very much). Could please let us know how good were spell pierce and preordain? I also guess that your SB is designed for your meta (why 3 cage and no relic?). Good luck!Quote:
Originally Posted by Windmill
What do people think about running 8 man lands. I saw a bit ago it was a topic but it seams to have died away. I am interested in people's views though running Vault and Factory alongside Standstill.