[Deck] Goblins

Hi everyone, I went to a GPT for GP Paris today. 30 players participated in the event.

R1 Maverick with Dark Depths + Thesbian Stage combo 2-0
This is a pretty good matchup. I won one game because my opponent forgot his trigger on SoFI, leaving me at 2 life.
1-0

R2 Burn 2-1
This wasn't your usual burn list, and it was a bit outdated, playing cards like Ball Lightning and Earthquake.
2-0

R3 Grixis Delver/Pyromancer 1-1
We go to time. In round five of time I play a Ringleader and miss. I attacked him down to 3 (he blocked with pyromancer +elemental). The fifth card on top was Tarfire. I had an Engineered Plague and four mana at the time.
2-0-1

R4 Junk 1-2
I win game 1 by connecting with lackey and wastelanding him out of the game.
I lose game 2 & 3 to Engineered Plague + Humility
2-1-1

R5 Miracles 2-1
He gets rip + energyfield online g1.
G2 I play a chieftain with only one red source. We realise it later and ask the judge about it and there's no backing up. I think I would likely still have won this game, but it doesn't feel as good. Big thanks to my opponent for being such a nice guy about it!
I won G3, don't remember anything special happening in this game.
3-1-1

I make top 8 as the 8th player in the standings.

Top 8

R1 UWr stoneforge, TNN, top, supreme verdict 2-0
He's low on lands g2. I wasteland his tundra and play a scrapper to get his batterskull. He vials in jitte and trades his sfm for my ringleader, but I have so much gas and he's stuck on two lands for quite a while.

R2 Grixis Delver/Pyromancer - same guy as before 2-1
G3 was really interesting. I played cavern, lackey. He played bolt, wasteland my cavern. I topdeck land and get a vial dazed. Luckily I draw another land, and play a chalice for one, which he dazes. He then Surgically extracts it and cabal therapy me for the engineered plague that he saw. A turn later he flashbacks it hitting my two ringleaders. We keep on grinding until I have seven or eight lands in play and after a while I manage to pull it out.

Finals storm
G1 my opponent cast Ad Nauseam at 18 life and even though he doesn't hit very well he untaps and kills me next turn.
G2 he went of t1. I misplayed by not playing chalice right away, although this perticular time it wouldn't have mattered.

So, second place. No byes for GP Paris though. ;)

I played the same list as last time.
4 Aether Vial
4 Golblin Lackey
1 Skirk Prospector
2 Goblin Piledriver
3 Mogg War Marshall
2 Goblin Warchief
3 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang Commander

1 Tarfire
1 Warren Weirding
4 Gempalm Incinerator

4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Badlands
4 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire

Sideboard
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Perish
1 Boartusk Liege
1 Shattering Spree
1 Engineered Plague

For the ones interested in lists with chalice, chrome mox, ancient tomb, you might like this :

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-Stompy/page63

you can read a couple of lists of what they call "goblin stompy" , a variation of dragon stompy based on Moggcatcher . But it is a completely different deck than goblins.

Hi everyone, I've got a short report for you! :)

R1 Dredge 2-0
Removal is pretty good at controlling bridges ;)

R2 Stoneblade 2-0
G1 He is stuck on one land for a while while I'm stuck on two. I start bringing in the beats while he is on defense. G2 was pretty similar.

R3 Merfolk 0-2 - Dafuq?
I don't know what happened here, although he was really fast especially G2. I guess cutting the 2-mana slot punished me here, as both Mogg War Marshal and Piledriver work wonders in the matchup.

R4 Jund 0-2 (sigh)
Not a good matchup. However, I almost pulled G1 out. He killed me with two bolts, otherwise I would have gotten to go Warchief > Matron > Krenko and might have turned the game around. G2 didn't go very well, as I was on defense the whole time.

Thought: The Jund matchup is quite difficult, if anyone has any ideas on how to beat it I'd love to hear them. Losing against merfolk felt pretty lousy, although I guess it happened. I didn't notice any missplays that match though, maybe it was just variance. Still, I'd prefer to learn something from every game I play.

Goblins should always start with 4 waste 4 port 4 vial after that I can see changes but goblins has been strong for years starting with mana disruption. Changing that seems like a no go to me.

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Originally Posted by Sandro95

Hi everyone, I've got a short report for you! :) R1 Dredge 2-0 Removal is pretty good at controlling bridges ;) R2 Stoneblade 2-0 G1 He is stuck on one land for a while while I'm stuck on two. I start bringing in the beats while he is on defense. G2 was pretty similar. R3 Merfolk 0-2 - Dafuq? I don't know what happened here, although he was really fast especially G2. I guess cutting the 2-mana slot punished me here, as both Mogg War Marshal and Piledriver work wonders in the matchup. R4 Jund 0-2 (sigh) Not a good matchup. However, I almost pulled G1 out. He killed me with two bolts, otherwise I would have gotten to go Warchief > Matron > Krenko and might have turned the game around. G2 didn't go very well, as I was on defense the whole time. Thought: The Jund matchup is quite difficult, if anyone has any ideas on how to beat it I'd love to hear them. Losing against merfolk felt pretty lousy, although I guess it happened. I didn't notice any missplays that match though, maybe it was just variance. Still, I'd prefer to learn something from every game I play.

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Jund is a pretty nasty matchup but it's not unwinnable. G1 it's usually about whether they are able to Abrupt Decay your vial as it far and away the best card against them. If it lives you can usually push far enough ahead and kill them. Postboard I like to board out all the Lackeys and some Piledrivers for 3 Relics and 3 Pyrokinesis. Relic is just so good vs their entire deck and combos nicely with Pyrokinesis to kill Goyfs. A nice little trick when casting Pyrokinesis with relic out(killing one or more Tarmogoyfs) is to pop the relic and hold priority and cast the Pyro. This prevents any card from possibly going to the graveyard to grow the Goyf(s) back to a toughness that lets them live :)

Also I am going to start playing these little monsters again. I have been playing Rug lately but with all these Dark Depths/Lands decks running around the temptation is too strong! I'll share my list once I get one together and let you guys know leading up to SCG St. Louis here in a couple of weeks. Cheers!

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Originally Posted by B-rad

Jund is a pretty nasty matchup but it's not unwinnable. G1 it's usually about whether they are able to Abrupt Decay your vial as it far and away the best card against them. If it lives you can usually push far enough ahead and kill them. Postboard I like to board out all the Lackeys and some Piledrivers for 3 Relics and 3 Pyrokinesis. Relic is just so good vs their entire deck and combos nicely with Pyrokinesis to kill Goyfs. A nice little trick when casting Pyrokinesis with relic out(killing one or more Tarmogoyfs) is to pop the relic and hold priority and cast the Pyro. This prevents any card from possibly going to the graveyard to grow the Goyf(s) back to a toughness that lets them live :)

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IRT the bold part.
I think exactly the opposite is true: Aether Vial is the WORST card against Jund, which is why I board it out after G1.
There are 2 reasons for that. First, Abrupt Decay @ Aether Vial with 1 or 2 counters is a huge tempo loss. I don't want to spend my valuable first or second turn casting Aether Vial just to get nothing in return (this is a worst-case scenario of course). Second, I feel like casting Vials against a deck with discard spells is a LOSE-LOSE situation. You intentionally reduce your handsize by 1 for a card that only bcomes valuable at the moment you bring a cmc3/4 creature into play. However, at the same time you give your opponent the chance to hit you with Thoughtseize and Hymn to Tourarch even harder.

I wonder why we have such a totally different view on the MU?
My theory would be that our lists are different. The last list that you posted was a MonoR lists with 4 Tarfire and 4 Chieftain (0 Warchiefs), 4 Wasteland, 4 Ports, if I remember correctly. If that is still the list you are refferring to here, I can see why you keep in Vials. This list was perfect to aggressively aim at their mana (Relic of Progenitus SB, no fetchlands --> no fodder for DRS; Tarfire in MD, Pyrokinesis in SB --> no manaramping with DRS). With this strategy Vials are surely invaluable.
Am I right here?

(Just for refference: I'm currently on a Rb list with 4 Warren Instigator and 3-4 Chrome Moxen, 3 Wasteland, no Ports. Ergo: no manadenial plan, which makes Vial less useful).

Updated my listing of results (here) with new results against many decks!

- Sixth update (1-30-2014)
Few changes in my sideboard.
vs. Imperial Painter: 2-1/2-1/2-0
vs. BUG Control: 2-0
vs. Threshold UGr: 2-1/2-0
vs. Bant: 2-1
vs. GWB Maverick: 2-0
vs. Nic Scapeshift: 1-2/2-1
vs. Belcher: 0-2/0-2
vs. Team America: 2-0

Sorry for the delay, but I have been very busy. Regards.

Hey all,
New to posting in the thread. Was wondering what you all thought of punishing//grove combo in goblins. Too much?

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Originally Posted by Quackers

Hey all,
New to posting in the thread. Was wondering what you all thought of punishing//grove combo in goblins. Too much?

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I posted a Punishing Goblins deck pretty recently, but untested. Tarfire is probably better and has been putting up results, although I think there has also been a lack of Goblins players seriously trying out PFire.

PFire
-costs 1 more
-not flipped off Ringleader
-not tutorable
-lategame recursion to blow away blockers

I think it's more important for us to remove weenie blockers on turn 2-3 than at any other stage in the game, but there may be situations where lategame PFire recursion wins games. I wonder if that's greater than the number of situations where you can't resolve PFire but could resolve TFire.

You should test it and post results!

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Originally Posted by B-rad

Jund is a pretty nasty matchup but it's not unwinnable. G1 it's usually about whether they are able to Abrupt Decay your vial as it far and away the best card against them. If it lives you can usually push far enough ahead and kill them. Postboard I like to board out all the Lackeys and some Piledrivers for 3 Relics and 3 Pyrokinesis. Relic is just so good vs their entire deck and combos nicely with Pyrokinesis to kill Goyfs. A nice little trick when casting Pyrokinesis with relic out(killing one or more Tarmogoyfs) is to pop the relic and hold priority and cast the Pyro. This prevents any card from possibly going to the graveyard to grow the Goyf(s) back to a toughness that lets them live :)

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I see vial as a necessary card against them if we want to win by swarming the board with creatures. Vial does a really good job at helping us put multiple goblins onto the battlefield in one turn. However, I can see Gobolord's point too. I think that Vial is likely less usefull in the more aggressive winstigator lists that are also playing Chrome Mox and are more capable of going the aggressive route.

Question: Would you also board out Lackey on the play? It seems as if connecting with a Lackey would be a good way to steal a game from them. Would you consider this a valid reason to keep Lackey in, or would it just be better to go all in on playing the grindier game? Either way, I see it as a tough battle for us, jund really has a lot of effective tools for grinding us out with all their removals, hymns, Bobs and Goyfs etc.

I think that vs jund vial is our best card in game 1, in the sense that it is one of our only hopes. If vial stays on the battlefield we can manage to play an "unfair" game and beat their higher card quality. Of course there is always the risk of vial being destroyed by a decay, but if it doesn't happen we can steal the game.

However in game 2 and 3, when we can side in graveyard hate and pyrokinesis, i think that is correct to board out vial because now we have a way to beat their higher card quality playing fair. Plus, vial gets worse when we are siding out creatures.

Anyway i recall the stream of the last starcitygames open won by max tietze. He beat jund both in the semifinals and in the finals, and vial was by far the best card in those matchups together with siege-gang. Of course vial is less effective if we are playing less wasteland/rishadan ports.

I would always side out lackey on the draw, but i'd keep him in on the play because their only answers are bolt and deathrite shaman (which is not an answer if we have tarfire/pyrokinesis).

And (probably i'm saying something obvious) a key to winning the matchup is killing dark confidant... we really can't beat them if they are drawing 2 cards per turn.

It's been quite a while since I've played any Magic (house-hunting, wedding-planning, and learning a new job right now), but I had a free evening Wednesday night and resolved to make the trek to my local game store. Mead Hall Games in downtown Minneapolis has built a very competitive, fun and engaging Legacy scene the past six months with their $15 Wednesday night tournament. 4-0 has a $100 payout, so players feel like there is actually something at stake, and the higher buy-in + downtown location has resulted in a more mature player base (AKA- no rounds where you're sitting across from someone with unsleeved cards or a severely under-optimized deck). I pulled my Goblin deck out of my Magic closet after work and put together the following list:

4 Vial
4 Lackey
3 Piledriver
3 Thalia
2 Chieftain
4 Warchief
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
2 Krenko

3 Tarfire
2 Gempalm
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk

4 Waste
3 Port
1 Karakas
4 Cavern
3 Plateau
4 Mountain
4 Fetch

My main adjustment was cutting Mogg War Marshall from the list. MWM was great when everyone was playing Goyf and Mongoose, but he doesn't bring much to the table when you're facing down Delver, DRS, and SFM-enabled equipment. MWM is a clearly defensive card, but it now does a poor job defending against the most popular threats in the format.

Gemplam Incinerator also got cut down a bit. I've advocated running no less than 4 many times in the past, but the format has accelerated and Gempalm is now too slow. I kept two in the list for some mid-game card advantage, but Tarfire is now the primary early game removal of choice.

Sideboard
1 Mindbreak Trap
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Ethersworn Cannonist
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Sudden Demise
3 Wear // Tear
3 Rest in Peace
1 Relic of Progenitus

R1 - Death and Taxes
G1 - I'm on the draw and get lucky because my opponent's opener is Plains, pass. I play a Vial and we're off to the races. He eventually gets his double-striker in play and puts a Jitte on it. I Vial in a Matron to block it and search up a Tuktuk which I use to win the game after that. Without his Jitte he just couldn't get his game going and I won through developing a superior board position.
G2 - I mulled to 5 on the draw. This game was actually close until I made a major strategic error. My opponent played Vial T1, then SFM > Sword of Fire and Ice T2. At the end of my T2 he activated Vial and put Mom into play. I Pyro'd his board. T3 he was stuck on two lands. At the end of my turn he Vialed in Serra Avenger. A Tuktuk Scrapper found his way into my hand and I had the choice of either blowing up his Vial or waiting for his SoFaI to his the board and blow up that instead. I chose to blast his Vial and he ripped a land next turn and cast the Sword. Once he equiped the Avenger next turn there was nothing I could do to get back in it. I vaguely recall losing to Death and Taxes in a similar manner before. If you find yourself with the option of blowing up equipment or a Vial you should probably wait for the equipment (unless your opponent is seriously mana screwed, like only 1 land on T3).
G3 - I had a good hand with a high curve and double Vial but no removal. I knew I was dead to Revoker but otherwise the hand was fantastic for this MU. Well, he played Revoker T2 and I never ripped removal. It was still a good keep. He just had the answers. That happens sometimes in Magic.
0-1

R2 - Elves
G1 - I'm on the draw again. My opponent opened with Bayou, pass. I had a Wasteland in hand and blew up his Bayou. His slow start became significantly slower. He played T2 Dryad Arbor. I Tarfired it. He played T3 Cradle. I played Lackey, and Lackey connected the next turn for Krenko. Port kept his Cradle out of the equation and I pulled out the G1 win (and increasingly rare feat against Elves).
G2 - We both mulled to 6. I got a 2:1 against him thanks to Sudden Demise. Bounce effects saved him from a 3:1. Thanks to his bounced elf he was able to get back in the game and Hoofed me to death. I hate that card.
G3 - Ethersworn Cannonist! That card is pretty legit. Played it T2 and the Elves player never got in the game.
1-1

R3 - Jund
G1 - I was on the play and started with a T1 Lackey. My opponent's T1 wasn't strong enough to prevent me from Lackeying in Krenko T2, so I won the game quickly off of Krenko.
G2 - He played T1 Bayou, pass. Deja Vu. I T1 Wasted, and once again my opponent was unable to recover. Wasteland STILL wins games.
2-1

R4 - Storm
G1 - I mulled to 5 and could not find a Lackey or Thalia. L
G2 - My opening hand had Thalia and Mindbreak Trap. He hit my Thalia T1 with Cabal Therapy and hit my Trap T2 with another Therapy. The game was pretty much over at that point. There was one turn where I could have Wasted his Underground Sea, but instead I cast a Piledriver. I chose putting on a clock over mana disruption. Going for mana disruption instead might have bought me another turn, but it wouldn't have won the game anyway.
2-2

Overall the deck felt pretty good. I liked playing 6 haste-lords. Running fewer removal pieces was good too. And Krenko is still the shit. Sudden Demise is a great sideboard card and I've gotten a lot of value out of it.

MWM was not missed. Our 2cc slots are the obvious focal point where Goblins has been out-paced by the format. Lackey is still awesome, as are the 3cc+ cards, but Piledriver, MWM and Winstigator are significantly underpowered. Now, more than ever, Goblins could really use a 2-drop that is good at killing artifacts and attacking. Piledriver isn't good enough on offense, MWM isn't good enough on defense, and Winstigator doesn't justify his RR cost. Unfortunately there's not much we can do except wait for the next set and hope. Which just isn't very fun.

Maybe a weird suggestion, but here one crazy idea for those toying with an black splash: why not use Toxic Deluge as an SB-option?

If played correctly, we should be able to recover much easier than our opponent. Now I don't own Badlands or else would already experiment with it myself.

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Originally Posted by Chatto

Maybe a weird suggestion, but here one crazy idea for those toying with an black splash: why not use Toxic Deluge as an SB-option?

If played correctly, we should be able to recover much easier than our opponent. Now I don't own Badlands or else would already experiment with it myself.

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Toxic deluge is too harmful for us. It's a non goblin card that thins our deck and if we resolve it Deluge kills our own cards. It's card disadvantage and thins our deck. So it's a slower, off color pyrokinesis. And, unlike Pyro, it won't let you clear your opponent's blockers to get a Lackey through. That's a pretty big strike against it. The only deck that I've seen running Deluge is Jund, because Jund can take advantage of Deluge's synergy with Bloodbraid Elf, and Goyf is generally big enough to be the last creature standby after deluge resolves. Goblins has none of those synergies with deluge.

Of course you are right, but with people playing four Chieftains you could theoretically make Deluge a one-sided sweeper. And yes this really is hypothetical speaking.

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Originally Posted by Chatto

Of course you are right, but with people playing four Chieftains you could theoretically make Deluge a one-sided sweeper. And yes this really is hypothetical speaking.

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If we're speaking in hypotheticals then they can hypothetically cast removal on your chieftain in response to deluge and wipe your board anyway. Not likely in any case.

Why Toxic Deluge? Why not just play...Meekstone!

No, seriously. It does nothing to us (unless 2 hastelords out) and locks out tons of relevant creatures in the format. I don't get why hating on Piledriver.

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Originally Posted by FTW

Why Toxic Deluge? Why not just play...Meekstone!

No, seriously. It does nothing to us (unless 2 hastelords out) and locks out tons of relevant creatures in the format. I don't get why hating on Piledriver.

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On Toxic Deluge: I agree with what jrw1985 wrote in his second last posting.

On Meekstone: First of all I don't see too many "big" creatures lately - and only few of them are affected by Meekstone. I mean, Emrakul, Griselbrand, and a Germ Token carrying a Batterskull don't really give a shit. That leaves me with onyl two creatures: Tarmogofy and Insectile Abberation. Thats too few to even consider Meekstone.
Second, he problem that we have with opponent's creatures is usually that they sit still instead of attacking. So, to me a creature is really annoying if my opponent won't attack with it (like Stonefore Mystic, Death Rite Shaman, Wall-o-Goyf) because that means I can't puh my damage through properly. Goblins are very deadly when your opponent slips and sends one more creature attacking than he should (aka when he leaves too few blockers behind). Meekstone does nothing to get us past blockers. What we need, when we want to handle creatures, is something that makes blockers disappear (aka. spotremoval).

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Originally Posted by GoboLord

That leaves me with onyl two creatures: Tarmogofy and Insectile Abberation. Thats too few to even consider Meekstone.

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True-Name Nemesis? Lorded Merfolks? Sword-carrying anything? Jundbraid Elf? Spirit of the Whydidn'tyouboardthisout? Venereal Clique? Flickerwhoops?

Agreed removal is usually better. I mean for when Goblins cannot remove the creature for one red mana. Perhaps those creatures out of Tarfire range are so hard to remove in general that it is not worth playing a mediocre card for them.