Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Final Fortune
I haven't been too impressed with Rain of Filth after testing the no ETW/Mox version, a single Wasteland takes away too much value from your last ditch ritual compared to Cabal Ritual just naturally gaining value thru' Threshold without ever risking your manabase. Bayou is also very meh in your starting hand, I can't imagine MDing 2 being very consistent.
There are a lot of question marks left: Why did you expose the land to Wasteland? Does wasting a land make casting Cabal Ritual through Daze easier? Does a single Wasteland really make a difference for your T.hold?
It's Bayou + Swamp vs 2 Bayous. Do you want to tell me a Swamp is significantly better to get into the game than Bayou? Bayou at least casts Xantid while having a Swamp in your opener is even more limited. My manabase even has more lands so its less likely that your are stuck with only a non-blue land in your opener.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pelikanudo
When talking about C.Mox and exploding A.N I was refering mainly to the ability to just win on the spot once you start revealing with A.N. we need to agree both that 3 C.Moxen are better after A.N. than having 0.
Related to 2 Examples you ask me:
a)LED, LED, LED, RoF, RoF., B.W., C.M
b)LED, LED, LED, RoF, B.W., B.W., C.M
Joke.
It's a two edged Sword: You have to get to 9 mana first so the Moxen as post-AN IMS are even relevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
I'm still playing a Mox so that my Ad Nauseams are a little more impressive, where you opt for a 14th land. It's not Rain of Filth vs Chrome Mox, it's Chrome Mox against a second Bayou - it's a little foolish to argue otherwise as we both added in two additional rituals. Those are what's in competition. Cabal Ritual is much better at supporting: PIF, Dark Petition and floating mana into Ad Nauseam than Rain of Filth. I believe my list is faster due to the main deck four mana line that I'm not giving up on my Infernal Tutors (Empty the Warrens) along with the Additional Mox and Cabal Ritual being worthwhile on turns 1+2 unlike Rain. You lost more than one match at the GP from your notes because of this.
Less targets for Wish certainly does make it worse. But it's not about "finding a way", it's about having the right cards in the right situations.
It's Chrome Mox vs. Bayou and two freed SB slots as I don't have to run Carpets against Tempo/Delver. Cabal Ritual sucks in terms of floating mana unless you have t.hold which is kinda tricky to achieve, if we tend to cut Ponders postboard for solutions. There is no guarantee that I would have won these matches with Moxen and EtW in the deck, but I would have lost one or the other game without Rains manaboost. Everything comes at a price, but I have to resist your idea that the deck is to blame for losses like the one against Elves. For Gods sake, I had two mana float, what can I ask more for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kkkant
I know this question will haunt me forever, but has anyone ever tried pyromancer ascension as a SB option?
I've tried it this week and work out awesomely vs miracles, chalice.decks and grindy matchups.
Consider that people dont tend to bring in GY hate against us (at least people that can note the difference between ANT and TES) and we play 8 playsets (BS Ponder GP IF BW DR RoF CT),making it really easy to activate.
The games i played it, i managed to get it online a couple of turn after and then it simply went out of hands.
Getting PA online with Infernals, Wishes and Rituals is counterintuitive and most Miracles players board Wear/Tear anyways for the manacosts so you're fucked as they can counter the PA or destroy it with the same card. I have toyed with it in ANT which has even more cantrips and it was still far from worth it's slots.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Hey boys!
an idea came to my mind to fight Miracles! Im not sure if this I'll have enough side space....
playing 4 Dark Confidant plus 4 A.Decay.
BoB is itself a must threat to answer, which can be played soon turn 2 at its worst.
once BoB is on the table and you start to draw cards even if C.B. is landed you will get more chances to draw A.decay!
it is like playing a small EtW withouth investing too much resources or 0 resources. Once it is on the table just you need 1 turn to make sure at least 1 card is drawn so again the Opp. will obtain card disdvantage.
I believe it is like playing 4 EtW in terms of threatining - sure EtW will win the opp. if there is no answers to , but the difference is that if Opp. can answer EtW in the following 2 or 3 turns you are in a very bad position. IF the Opp. can answer BoB in the 2nd or 3rd turn you'll be in a veeery good position.
Well I'll start to test this approach...
This even has synergy with the idea of ovearload my Side with more Discard instead of Xantids because you now can discard more threats vs a) my BoB b) my Win. now Omnishow is lacking Leyline!
This is just theory...
Opinions?
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pelikanudo
Hey boys!
an idea came to my mind to fight Miracles! Im not sure if this I'll have enough side space....
playing 4 Dark Confidant plus 4 A.Decay.
BoB is itself a must threat to answer, which can be played soon turn 2 at its worst.
once BoB is on the table and you start to draw cards even if C.B. is landed you will get more chances to draw A.decay!
it is like playing a small EtW withouth investing too much resources or 0 resources. Once it is on the table just you need 1 turn to make sure at least 1 card is drawn so again the Opp. will obtain card disdvantage.
I believe it is like playing 4 EtW in terms of threatining - sure EtW will win the opp. if there is no answers to , but the difference is that if Opp. can answer EtW in the following 2 or 3 turns you are in a very bad position. IF the Opp. can answer BoB in the 2nd or 3rd turn you'll be in a veeery good position.
Well I'll start to test this approach...
This even has synergy with the idea of ovearload my Side with more Discard instead of Xantids because you now can discard more threats vs a) my BoB b) my Win. now Omnishow is lacking Leyline!
This is just theory...
Opinions?
Having tested Bob and actually playing AD in ANT I think I can say something about that topic.
For me, Bob is awful, he does not threaten their life and he isn't helping us win. In order to win against miracles, you have to be either quick qith discard-backup, or fight through their hate. So if they have counters you need to have your swarms or discard ready, if they have CB/TOP you need to have your AD or Krosan Grip ready. If you don't you simply loose.
So I played in Lille against Miracles from the board (EDIT:beating every Miracles opponent):
4 AD
2 KG
1 Ad Nauseam
3 Swarm
Nowadays I think I would prefer Young Pyromancer, who with also very low cost may give you another angle of winning: combat damage, which Bob does not provide since you can almost never attack safely.
Due to the success of Mentor, I am testing 3 Sulfur Elementals right now instead of Krosan Grip and cards like Dread of Night.
He is good against DnT, Loam playing Thalia now and blocking Hatebears, and good against Mentor.
If not, it is just an EOT (mostly) uncounterable 3-Power-beater against Miracles.
So far I was very pleased with him, cause people do not expect him, and that is when he is best (sounds true for almost every sideboard tech of combo... :> )
my2cents.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
If Bob survives two full turns he's CA +1 only but can be plowed or blocked (Meddling Mage, Clique, Mentor, etc.). You could run Nights Whisper and have a better effect for the cost which doesn't require you to slowroll against Counterbalance/Clique/etc in the first place.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Not to say playing Bob is a good idea, but I'm quite sure his point was that Bob needs an answer in some way or an other, and the sooner the better, while I would let my opponent cast all the Sign in Blood and Night Whispers he wants.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Yeah... doesn't seem so good idea... anyway I maybe test
I was thinking on this approach because as I still play C.Moxen and Petals it could be a good approach for first turns... taking some lifes - 2 or 4 should be enough and next use tendrils.
Seems that the IllCanone Aproach is the best one... I already play 4 A.D. 2-3 Xantids maybe adding 2 more krosans... could help even more - it seems such a specific card... snif.
IllCanone how do specific side in and out vs Miracles with so many cards dedicated?
EDIT: Yes LDX my point was that! it is just a Threat which needs to be answered and makes you draw into A.D.
I saw a card anyway I dont remember its name - it is a Enchantment which makes phase out things - it seems to me ok, but not sure - this is polivalent as can answer both C.B. and senseis. I'm not sure if this also phases out M.Mages...
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pelikanudo
I saw a card anyway I dont remember its name - it is a Enchantment which makes phase out things - it seems to me ok, but not sure - this is polivalent as can answer both C.B. and senseis. I'm not sure if this also phases out M.Mages...
You probably mean Teferi's Realm.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
As I said, I am playing ANT and not TES, but anyway:
Roughly I board like that:
(Lille SB)
-1 Swamp
-4 Cabal Therapy
-1 PiF
-3 Preordain
-1 Cabal Ritual
+3 Swarm
+4 AD
+1 Nauseam
+2 Grip
But as I said, right now I like running SB's like this:
1 Ad Nauseam
3 Swarm
3 Sulfur Elemental
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Chain of Vapor
1 Grip
To the Realm: I guess Miracles opponent just chooses Creatures everytime and calls it a day...
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
There are a lot of question marks left: Why did you expose the land to Wasteland? Does wasting a land make casting Cabal Ritual through Daze easier? Does a single Wasteland really make a difference for your T.hold?
It's Bayou + Swamp vs 2 Bayous. Do you want to tell me a Swamp is significantly better to get into the game than Bayou? Bayou at least casts Xantid while having a Swamp in your opener is even more limited. My manabase even has more lands so its less likely that your are stuck with only a non-blue land in your opener.
It's Chrome Mox vs. Bayou and two freed SB slots as I don't have to run Carpets against Tempo/Delver. Cabal Ritual sucks in terms of floating mana unless you have t.hold which is kinda tricky to achieve, if we tend to cut Ponders postboard for solutions. There is no guarantee that I would have won these matches with Moxen and EtW in the deck, but I would have lost one or the other game without Rains manaboost. Everything comes at a price, but I have to resist your idea that the deck is to blame for losses like the one against Elves. For Gods sake, I had two mana float, what can I ask more for?
Swamp is strictly better than Bayou G1 and possibly better than Bayou G2 depending on your match up i.e. it's a liability vs Wasteland.dec while being a benefit vs Miracles - I still prefer the stability of Swamp.
Getting lands Wastelanded happens, you don't always get to Fetch for Swamp or sit on Fetchlands, the EV of the card off the ANT chain goes down as Wastelands are played while the EV of Cabal Ritual only goes up as the game is played. I'm not really sure which of the two is better in your hand, Rain of Filth may have the edge there. It feels like a lot of mediocre choices to choose from, I'm not really happy with any of them.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IlCannone
As I said, I am playing ANT and not TES, but anyway:
Roughly I board like that:
(Lille SB)
-1 Swamp
-4 Cabal Therapy
-1 PiF
-3 Preordain
-1 Cabal Ritual
+3 Swarm
+4 AD
+1 Nauseam
+2 Grip
But as I said, right now I like running SB's like this:
1 Ad Nauseam
3 Swarm
3 Sulfur Elemental
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Chain of Vapor
1 Grip
To the Realm: I guess Miracles opponent just chooses Creatures everytime and calls it a day...
By the moment, I've purchaed 4 of these cards - I'm planning to make a rough testing - holidays is coming soon!!.
The good thing about Realm is that you on your upkeep can choose or HateBear or Coutenrbalance or Senseis, even I believe if 2 realm are in play you can choose C.B. and X. however the problem is still the same - this does not Work vs a landed C.B....
Related to you side, I surprise you board out 4 threapies. tell me why please. I undestand this is because if c.b. is in the Opp. hand you'd prefer to just use duress, however only 3 duress (I assume) and 3 Xantids seems to me few disruption cards...
I also think that having so much anti C.B. hate then when you play any duress, I think it is better to hold it for the mid-late game as you will not prefer to discard a c.b. if you have 6 dedicated slots to it - for this reason will not be better to side out Duress instead. which also has synergy with Xantid?
Anyway I'll try to make tests based on +2 Krosan likely in adition to my configuration and see what happens...
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Final Fortune
Swamp is strictly better than Bayou G1 and possibly better than Bayou G2 depending on your match up i.e. it's a liability vs Wasteland.dec while being a benefit vs Miracles - I still prefer the stability of Swamp.
Getting lands Wastelanded happens, you don't always get to Fetch for Swamp or sit on Fetchlands, the EV of the card off the ANT chain goes down as Wastelands are played while the EV of Cabal Ritual only goes up as the game is played. I'm not really sure which of the two is better in your hand, Rain of Filth may have the edge there. It feels like a lot of mediocre choices to choose from, I'm not really happy with any of them.
It's not that the base with Bayou + Swamp prevent you from ending up with a Bayou in your starting grip or that a Swamp joining a hand with cantrips, which isn't the definition of "stability", especially if the number of discard spells got reduced to make the "Fetch -> Swamp -> Discard" opening less likely to occur anyways, which acted as a selling point for Swamp against FoW + Wasteland as you sure remember.
What I miss is a word on the increased number of lands total and fetches in paticular, if you complain about seeing a Bayou in hand or facing Wasteland. The build banks on dropping your second land turn 2 and keeping a hand without two IMS or blue land + cantrips isn't going to fly, unless it can kill T1/2 by itself. You also ignore how bad Swamp + Xantid is in your starting grip compared to Bayou + Xantid. Combinations of Swamp+Volcanic or Swamp+Sea if you boarded Decays are totally iffy.
The value of Rain goes down, if you get wastelanded, but it's not Rains job to help against Wasteland, but the duty of the increased landcount, which feed the Rains to overcome Daze and Spell Pierce in a symbiose later in the game while you are able to steer the impact and timing of Wasteland to some extent with your Fetchlands. Aggressive cantripping is a no-go against Wasteland of course, but Probe helps to make the right choices.
Cabal and Rain are both options for longer games, but getting to t.hold isn't quite easy, if you run Wishes instead of more cantrips like ANT and, on top of that, usually cut cantrips postboard for hate. If you don't get t.hold online by turn 4 or even later (thanks to DRS), like it happend to me several times in testing, you start to question the value of Cabal Rituals.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
It's not that the base with Bayou + Swamp prevent you from ending up with a Bayou in your starting grip or that a Swamp joining a hand with cantrips, which isn't the definition of "stability", especially if the number of discard spells got reduced to make the "Fetch -> Swamp -> Discard" opening less likely to occur anyways, which acted as a selling point for Swamp against FoW + Wasteland as you sure remember.
What I miss is a word on the increased number of lands total and fetches in paticular, if you complain about seeing a Bayou in hand or facing Wasteland. The build banks on dropping your second land turn 2 and keeping a hand without two IMS or blue land + cantrips isn't going to fly, unless it can kill T1/2 by itself. You also ignore how bad Swamp + Xantid is in your starting grip compared to Bayou + Xantid. Combinations of Swamp+Volcanic or Swamp+Sea if you boarded Decays are totally iffy.
The value of Rain goes down, if you get wastelanded, but it's not Rains job to help against Wasteland, but the duty of the increased landcount, which feed the Rains to overcome Daze and Spell Pierce in a symbiose later in the game while you are able to steer the impact and timing of Wasteland to some extent with your Fetchlands. Aggressive cantripping is a no-go against Wasteland of course, but Probe helps to make the right choices.
Cabal and Rain are both options for longer games, but getting to t.hold isn't quite easy, if you run Wishes instead of more cantrips like ANT and, on top of that, usually cut cantrips postboard for hate. If you don't get t.hold online by turn 4 or even later (thanks to DRS), like it happend to me several times in testing, you start to question the value of Cabal Rituals.
There's so many things wrong with this. Stability isn't defined by casting cantrips, the number was reduced from seven to six discard spells and it's barely noticeable. Not to mention, there's still Dark Ritual and Infernal Tutor to be cast of it in the face of Wasteland. Also, my list does board in the Thoughtseize in some match-ups which would make the number seven again.
You can certainly complain about Bayou in the face of Wasteland when you're cutting a basic for it. Most hands only need one mana source to stick in an attempt to combo (by either dropping a dual/cracking a fetch), swamp does this very effectively. Also, you mention siding out cantrips to support Bayou but then use Swamp's not casting them against it - it doesn't make any sense. You cut Xantid, I find that a weakness in your argument.
It's not Rain's fault when you get Wastelanded, but you're adding in more Wasteland targets over mana sources that can't be destroyed (Chrome Mox/Swamp).
Have you ever actually tested Cabal Ritual? I mean, I've had it being Threshold on turn two numerous times, almost every game by turn three and even a few rare turn 1's before Ad Nauseam. It's considerably faster than waiting to build up 3-5 lands in the face of Wasteland. Cabal Ritual is way better in the mid-to-late game and has applications with other cards in our deck (PIF/Dark Petition).
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
@Bryant, do you plan on writing anything regarding how and when to use Petition? Myself (and I assume many others) have not had a chance to test it yet and I'd love a bit of insight into how the card performs before I try to fit it into my list.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
There's so many things wrong with this. Stability isn't defined by casting cantrips, the number was reduced from seven to six discard spells and it's barely noticeable. Not to mention, there's still Dark Ritual and Infernal Tutor to be cast of it in the face of Wasteland. Also, my list does board in the Thoughtseize in some match-ups which would make the number seven again.
Do you board Thoughtseize against Wasteland decks like Tempo/Delver or Lands where opening with a Swamp makes a difference in terms of stability against Wasteland?
You can see it the other way: I actually replaced the Swamp with a Fetchland. Suddenly the whole argument of "stability against Wasteland" turns wack. I mean, you said it before as you mentioned that I "replaced a Mox with a Bayou", so gauging 8th Fech vs Swamp is the more accurate point I should have mentioned
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
You can certainly complain about Bayou in the face of Wasteland when you're cutting a basic for it. Most hands only need one mana source to stick in an attempt to combo (by either dropping a dual/cracking a fetch), swamp does this very effectively. Also, you mention siding out cantrips to support Bayou but then use Swamp's not casting them against it - it doesn't make any sense. You cut Xantid, I find that a weakness in your argument.
See above. Stick to the logic of "Swamp->Fetchland / Mox->Bayou". A Fetchland sticks in the face of Wasteland. Bayou > Mox against Daze. Win-win.
The point about cantripping was in context of running more blue sources overall (thanks to additional Fechland) compared to your manabase. I'm less likely to get stuck with a single non-blue land which, in case of the Swamp dös not help with Xantid or Decay in postboard games
I
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
t's not Rain's fault when you get Wastelanded, but you're adding in more Wasteland targets over mana sources that can't be destroyed (Chrome Mox/Swamp).
Yeah, 1 have 1 potential target more in my 60. That however doesn't mean I have to expose one more target per game against Wasteland per sé. The game against lands.dec was a perfect example for that theory working in a tournament. By running more lands I can also recover much better by running more lands than stuff like Chrome Mox, which I heared isn't quite amazing if your opponent is also running Chalice/Thorns/Trinisphere (looking at Lands/MUD/Painter/etc.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
Have you ever actually tested Cabal Ritual? I mean, I've had it being Threshold on turn two numerous times, almost every game by turn three and even a few rare turn 1's before Ad Nauseam. It's considerably faster than waiting to build up 3-5 lands in the face of Wasteland. Cabal Ritual is way better in the mid-to-late game and has applications with other cards in our deck (PIF/Dark Petition).
The last time you ran a 2/1 Splitt of Cabal Ritual/Mox (back with Gemstone Mines and the argument you can just keep tapping them to destroy them yourself to Get t.hold) you dismissed the option a while later because the Ad Nauseams were so bad (most likely linked to the t.hold issue and being unable to float mana) and even if I'm sure that running a fetch/Dual base improved the Cabals, I doubt it's THAT MUCH of a leap if cantrips remain our primary boarding slots. I hope you don't want to make a point based on hilarious T1 t.hold goldfishing.
What was changed that your previous issues with Cabal Ritual are now seem gone for you?
Of course I have toyed with the list before Lille and I wasn't impressed that Cabal Ritual did nothing to support my Position against Shardless or Delver variants which I felt was required. For me it wasn't appealing to ground my potentially long game against stuff like DRS or Daze on Chrome Mox/CabalRitual/PastInFlames rather than dropping lands and Tutor/cantrip-chain them out if the game. If I opt to drop lands and ignore DRS/Daze/Pierce, while minimizing damage of AN in general and aim on ramping up from a single black mana post-AN only, Rain is a much better card than Cabal Ritual.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
Do you board Thoughtseize against Wasteland decks like Tempo/Delver or Lands where opening with a Swamp makes a difference in terms of stability against Wasteland?
You can see it the other way: I actually replaced the Swamp with a Fetchland. Suddenly the whole argument of "stability against Wasteland" turns wack. I mean, you said it before as you mentioned that I "replaced a Mox with a Bayou", so gauging 8th Fech vs Swamp is the more accurate point I should have mentioned
I do, I side in Thoughtseize against some mid-range hate bear decks, MUD and Lands. You're avoiding the real issue here in an attempt to act cute, a deck is a combination of parts. The two slots in question are what we're really talking about and not slot 59 vs slot 60. Mox & Swamp are both indestructible against Wasteland, Mox is better in the main deck as we're an Ad Nauseam centric deck. The impact of a Chrome Mox is considerably higher both pre and post Ad Nauseam compared to an off-color destructible Swamp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
See above. Stick to the logic of "Swamp->Fetchland / Mox->Bayou". A Fetchland sticks in the face of Wasteland. Bayou > Mox against Daze. Win-win.
The point about cantripping was in context of running more blue sources overall (thanks to additional Fechland) compared to your manabase. I'm less likely to get stuck with a single non-blue land which, in case of the Swamp dös not help with Xantid or Decay in postboard games
Being slower versus Thalia / Bayou doesn't provide an initial mana source post-Ad Nauseam, you "Lose-Lose". It's easy to throw out situations in a vacuum.
As I've stated, you don't even run Xantid anymore. You're just using it now as a crutch for a poor argument. You don't need multiple green mana sources in post-board games, especially at the cost of being worse against Wasteland.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
Yeah, 1 have 1 potential target more in my 60. That however doesn't mean I have to expose one more target per game against Wasteland per sé. The game against lands.dec was a perfect example for that theory working in a tournament. By running more lands I can also recover much better by running more lands than stuff like Chrome Mox, which I heared isn't quite amazing if your opponent is also running Chalice/Thorns/Trinisphere (looking at Lands/MUD/Painter/etc.)
Chrome Mox is great against those decks, it means you can kill faster and more efficiently. You also don't lose games against Elves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
The last time you ran a 2/1 Splitt of Cabal Ritual/Mox (back with Gemstone Mines and the argument you can just keep tapping them to destroy them yourself to Get t.hold) you dismissed the option a while later because the Ad Nauseams were so bad (most likely linked to the t.hold issue and being unable to float mana) and even if I'm sure that running a fetch/Dual base improved the Cabals, I doubt it's THAT MUCH of a leap if cantrips remain our primary boarding slots. I hope you don't want to make a point based on hilarious T1 t.hold goldfishing.
What was changed that your previous issues with Cabal Ritual are now seem gone for you?
I've answered this multiple times now, the difference is the main deck Empty the Warrens. In previous attempts, the deck lacked Empty, where my current list there is no lack of speed.
As for Threshold, it's considerably easier due to the increased number of fetch lands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
Of course I have toyed with the list before Lille and I wasn't impressed that Cabal Ritual did nothing to support my Position against Shardless or Delver variants which I felt was required. For me it wasn't appealing to ground my potentially long game against stuff like DRS or Daze on Chrome Mox/CabalRitual/PastInFlames rather than dropping lands and Tutor/cantrip-chain them out if the game. If I opt to drop lands and ignore DRS/Daze/Pierce, while minimizing damage of AN in general and aim on ramping up from a single black mana post-AN only, Rain is a much better card than Cabal Ritual.
Shardless is a great match-up anyway, you shouldn't be trying to improve that. Not to mention Cabal Ritual is terrific in that match-up due to no soft-counters plus its amazing after their discard. Why are you trying to play a turn 4 combo deck? That's what doesn't make any sense to me. You might as well be playing Spiral Tide. Your views are definitely skewed on this one, I honestly believe it's from a lack of real testing and not wanting to acquire different foil fetchlands than Misty Rainforests.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
I do, I side in Thoughtseize against some mid-range hate bear decks, MUD and Lands. You're avoiding the real issue here in an attempt to act cute, a deck is a combination of parts. The two slots in question are what we're really talking about and not slot 59 vs slot 60. Mox & Swamp are both indestructible against Wasteland, Mox is better in the main deck as we're an Ad Nauseam centric deck. The impact of a Chrome Mox is considerably higher both pre and post Ad Nauseam compared to an off-color destructible Swamp.
We're talking Mox vs. Land ... 1 card out of 60. You can't seriously keep pointing at improved Ad Nauseams, if you run a higher average cmc as I do and 4cc Sorceries to reveal to the 5cc Instant. Lets put it that way: If I would have flipped the Mox to th AN cast against Elves in game 2 it would have changed absolutely nothing at all (stranded at 5 mana instead of 4), but flipping EtW at any point would have made the situation much worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
Being slower versus Thalia / Bayou doesn't provide an initial mana source post-Ad Nauseam, you "Lose-Lose". It's easy to throw out situations in a vacuum.
I have won my only match against Thalia.dec that weekend / Cabal Ritual is crap post-AN if you can't find/float a full two (initial) mana. If you want to stop with me talking situations and cards in a vacuum, I would prefer, if you would reciprocate the favor. Pointing at best case scenarios like your turn 1 t.hold for Cabal Ritual isn't getting us anywhere as well. Same is true for AN flips pointing to the sole Chrome Mox, but not to the 2cc Rituals and EtW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
As I've stated, you don't even run Xantid anymore. You're just using it now as a crutch for a poor argument. You don't need multiple green mana sources in post-board games, especially at the cost of being worse against Wasteland.
Haven't played since the GP and the GP list had three Xantids. The pure speculation about reducing/replacing Xantids isn't a fundament to dismiss SB options, if we discuss Bayou/Swamp. It's not about about multiple green sources, bu about maintaining a fetchable one even if your opponent can take out one ... but you know that already ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
Chrome Mox is great against those decks, it means you can kill faster and more efficiently. You also don't lose games against Elves.
No need to play dirty here. I choose to not not die to 4cc flips of AN or to Delver beats, because I can't get around fucking Daze if I 2-for-1 myself just for 1 mana.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
Shardless is a great match-up anyway, you shouldn't be trying to improve that. Not to mention Cabal Ritual is terrific in that match-up due to no soft-counters plus its amazing after their discard. Why are you trying to play a turn 4 combo deck? That's what doesn't make any sense to me. You might as well be playing Spiral Tide. Your views are definitely skewed on this one, I honestly believe it's from a lack of real testing and not wanting to acquire different foil fetchlands than Misty Rainforests.
Why am I playing suddenly a turn 4 combo deck, if I replace a Mox with a Bayou and run Rains instead of Cabal Rituals? Why is Cabal Ritual and Past In Flames any good against Deathrite Shaman? I would really apprechiate, if you would stop hyperboles or come up with hilarious stuff like financial aspects as a reason to not adapt to ideas or test them. I'm not the one of us who pimps his deck in japanese foil or clings to cards like Grapeshot
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
We're talking Mox vs. Land ... 1 card out of 60. You can't seriously keep pointing at improved Ad Nauseams, if you run a higher average cmc as I do and 4cc Sorceries to reveal to the 5cc Instant. Lets put it that way: If I would have flipped the Mox to th AN cast against Elves in game 2 it would have changed absolutely nothing at all (stranded at 5 mana instead of 4), but flipping EtW at any point would have made the situation much worse.
The average Ad Nauseam draws anywhere between 15-25 cards, are you saying that seeing anywhere between 25% to 50% of your deck and not having an initial mana source afterwards isn't relevant? I've mentioned before that I run the Empty to be faster, it's not a great reveal off of Ad Nauseam. However, if Ad Nauseam has resolved, you're already in a good spot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
I have won my only match against Thalia.dec that weekend / Cabal Ritual is crap post-AN if you can't find/float a full two (initial) mana. If you want to stop with me talking situations and cards in a vacuum, I would prefer, if you would reciprocate the favor. Pointing at best case scenarios like your turn 1 t.hold for Cabal Ritual isn't getting us anywhere as well. Same is true for AN flips pointing to the sole Chrome Mox, but not to the 2cc Rituals and EtW.
Cabal Ritual is actually decent post-Ad Nauseam as you have guaranteed Threshold and can be cast off a sole mana source if you've cast Dark Ritual which is fairly likely. I mentioned the turn one Threshold once (I've achieved it more times than it's been mentioned), you're the only one dwelling on it. As I stated above, with the percentages, Chrome Mox vs Bayou is very relevant when talking post-Ad Nauseam.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
No need to play dirty here. I choose to not not die to 4cc flips of AN or to Delver beats, because I can't get around fucking Daze if I 2-for-1 myself just for 1 mana.
Then Brainstorm it away or take the one time 2-for-1, it's not nearly as bad as you're making it out to be. The card is very similar to Tendrils of Agony, where you never want it in your opening hand but you're always please to see it post-Ad Nauseam. There's a reason it's run in few copies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
Why am I playing suddenly a turn 4 combo deck, if I replace a Mox with a Bayou and run Rains instead of Cabal Rituals? Why is Cabal Ritual and Past In Flames any good against Deathrite Shaman? I would really apprechiate, if you would stop hyperboles or come up with hilarious stuff like financial aspects as a reason to not adapt to ideas or test them. I'm not the one of us who pimps his deck in japanese foil or clings to cards like Grapeshot
Because additional lands and Rain of Filth are slow – that's why. I didn't say Cabal Ritual was great against Deathrite Shaman, I said the card was good against Shardless (and it is), Deathrite is only a card a turn and the deck is capable of putting more in the graveyard than that. Even if it isn't, the one mana alone is still fine.
As for the Misty comment, I honestly believe it to be true. I do pimp my decks, but I don't let it influence me from playing the proper cards (Look at Grapeshot for example, am I "clinging to it"? - it's not in my 75), if it was right to be playing Mistys I would be sliding those Japanese Foils in right with the others!
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Bryant, I took a glimpse read on the new sideboard changes and noticed the changes on Burn. +3 Abrupt Decay, +2 Chain of Vapor, -4 Gitaxian Probe, -1 Duress. Some questions:
1a) Are the Abrupt Decay only for creature removal, or do you expect a shift and Burn playing Trinisphere/Chalice/etc. ?
1b) In case of creature removal only, if you had a Grapeshot or a Pyroclasm in your sideboard, would you board it instead of an Abrupt Decay?
2) Why both CoV, but no Void Snare?
3) Why Duress over Ponder?
Thank you!
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LDX
Bryant, I took a glimpse read on the new sideboard changes and noticed the changes on Burn. +3 Abrupt Decay, +2 Chain of Vapor, -4 Gitaxian Probe, -1 Duress. Some questions:
1a) Are the Abrupt Decay only for creature removal, or do you expect a shift and Burn playing Trinisphere/Chalice/etc. ?
1b) In case of creature removal only, if you had a Grapeshot or a Pyroclasm in your sideboard, would you board it instead of an Abrupt Decay?
2) Why both CoV, but no Void Snare?
3) Why Duress over Ponder?
Thank you!
Pyrostatic Pillar ;)
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LDX
Bryant, I took a glimpse read on the new sideboard changes and noticed the changes on Burn. +3 Abrupt Decay, +2 Chain of Vapor, -4 Gitaxian Probe, -1 Duress. Some questions:
1a) Are the Abrupt Decay only for creature removal, or do you expect a shift and Burn playing Trinisphere/Chalice/etc. ?
1b) In case of creature removal only, if you had a Grapeshot or a Pyroclasm in your sideboard, would you board it instead of an Abrupt Decay?
2) Why both CoV, but no Void Snare?
3) Why Duress over Ponder?
Thank you!
1a.) Creature removal for Eidolon. I've seen rare actual Pyrostatic Pillars, but mostly they side in Mind Break Trap.
1b.) I would side those in over an Abrupt Decay, but I would still want enough sufficient answers.
2.) Need to keep something that's wish-able to answer Eidolon.
3.) Ponder helps you dig for Decay/Chain in this match-up and helps your ability to be consistent in a shootout.
