[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

https://www.magiccardmarket.eu/Cards.../223432165.jpg

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

hahahaha



I think I mentioned the "why" by pointing to the shrinking number of non-blue matchups and DTT putting our opponents far ahead, if we have to fight through countermeasures and 2-for-1 ourselves for manasources. DTT isn't a problem by itself as we "can" combo before it comes relevant, but the card gets really annoying if paired with tools to stop our T1/2 combo which have to be dismantled first. If you can't win before their turn 3 you have an uphill battle to fight and trading two cards for a mere mana is extremely bad in the face of DTT. Rain/Cabal can actually profit from you having to go for the long run for these worst case scenarios against blue decks.

Petition is just the card that allows you to keep 4 MB Infernals for reliable/quick access to AN while maintaining a way to acces AN via Wish if Goblins/PIF are neither an option. I hate to rely on discard against aggro in general, especially if it eats two lifepoints as you plain hope to hit the best in their opening grip and hope they never draw another hatebear/clock. I've burned my fingers too often with that approach and moved to a reactive one with Chains & Decays.

About which form of aggro we're talking about? Some you can efficiently blitz with EtW even postboard, while others have to many outs (Deathblade) to reliable work with Goblins. EtW is the tricky one indeed as the postboard use is highly questionable against a lot of decks and I ended up boarding it out in most postboard matches, which threw up the question, if I even NEED the card mainboard for most game 1s, where we usually fight through less countermeasures anyways. I felt and feel that EtW is the card mainly responsible for our need of additional non-land IMS', both for casting it T1/2 (as EtW is usually unreliable afterwards) and to balance out the less flipped cards off Ad Nauseam (due to having to stop @ 4 life).

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By aggro I mean anything that requires you to SB out Duress, sometimes decks like Goblins, Elves, D&T etc. have token sweepers that catch Empty the Warrens by surprise.

The problem I have with Dark Petition is that unlike Past in Flames there is never a choice to SB it in for anything else (I SB in the PIF/Tendril kill from time to time) so your deck is less modular. It may be a minor consideration, I just like being able to SB out Empty the Warrens for another threat in my 75. I still think Empty the Warrens is useful MD, mainly because it works at maximum utility when you know your opponent can't have any outs to it yet and there are some match ups where you want to have 9 ways to get to a 4cc target rather than only 4.

Meh, maybe I just need to play without it pre-board in order to understand how much I'll miss it over all, mish-mash the 2 Cabal Ritual, 1 Chrome Mox idea with no MD Empty the Warrens over the weekend and then report back.

Can we not post fucking porn here, or whatever the hell that was. Jesus, some of us read this shit at work.

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

By aggro I mean anything that requires you to SB out Duress, sometimes decks like Goblins, Elves, D&T etc. have token sweepers that catch Empty the Warrens by surprise.

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I see. Siding EtW out against Elves is valid; I would however keep the Duress as stripping Glimpse or NO can really set them back to a slow aggro deck. I like chopping Therapies or Ponder first here tbh.

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

The problem I have with Dark Petition is that unlike Past in Flames there is never a choice to SB it in for anything else (I SB in the PIF/Tendril kill from time to time) so your deck is less modular.

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I also like boarding PIF from time to time especially for slower matchups in place of the MB EtW (my old two Mox build)

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

It may be a minor consideration, I just like being able to SB out Empty the Warrens for another threat in my 75. I still think Empty the Warrens is useful MD, mainly because it works at maximum utility when you know your opponent can't have any outs to it yet and there are some match ups where you want to have 9 ways to get to a 4cc target rather than only 4.

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That's why I had two in the SB to board one in against MUD, D&T, Tempo, etc.

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

Meh, maybe I just need to play without it pre-board in order to understand how much I'll miss it over all, mish-mash the 2 Cabal Ritual, 1 Chrome Mox idea with no MD Empty the Warrens over the weekend and then report back.

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Would look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by d0nkey

Can we not post fucking porn here, or whatever the hell that was. Jesus, some of us read this shit at work.

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I wouldn't categorize The Silence of the Lambs as porn... I'm sure your co-workers would appreciate your great taste in movies.

If you meant Marcelo's or Bryant's post, I'm sorry and I concur. Especially that Serum Visions is clearly pornographic.

After weeks of discussion on this forum, here is time for an explanation. Maybe will that put many questions I could have asked on perspective. Thank you all for helping me growing as a player!

And of course, a special thanks to Bryant for the opportunity, and Peter for the hours spend answering every single points in my questions.

http://www.theepicstorm.com/the-epic...-introduction/

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Originally Posted by Marcelo65

Dat awesome cantrip

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Love it. Who did the alter?

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Originally Posted by meffeo

Love it. Who did the alter?

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First suspect should be Malte ;)

Just received my set of foil Dark Petitions today. Can someone please break this card so that I can justify the bad preorder price I paid? Thanks in advance.

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Originally Posted by cdnza

Just received my set of foil Dark Petitions today. Can someone please break this card so that I can justify the bad preorder price I paid? Thanks in advance.

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Will stick to IT in ANT and 0-2 DPs, just use 1 in the TES SB and Draw7 effects are too bad in Legacy to play a form of Pitch Storm due to a lack of quick and permanent mana sources. Even in Doomsday its a worse setup spell than DTT.

Don't see space for a whole playset in any format

So I took TES to my local last night. The deck seemed great as always but I only got to keep one 7 across all 4 rounds which was pretty depressing. Anyway, I was wondering if there is a way out of this situation I found myself in last night...

It's game 1 against UWR delver. His board is a flipped delver and moastery swiftspear. I've stripped all countermagic, leaving him with 2 ponders, a fetchland, and a wasteland in hand.

I'm down to 3 life, from quick creature beats as well as probing and my board is Usea, Volc, Swamp. My hand is rite of flame, burning wish, LED x2, and lotus petal. Opponent is at 19. Is there anything that could have been done here? I had no rituals in the yard to go for a PiF kill and goblins wouldn't get me there as I would die when he swings with his delver. I'm sure I misplayed somewhere in the game to get into this situation, but can anyone see a way out of it? The list I took it identical to Bryant's most current list.

It sounds like on the previous turn after you played your discard spell that you shoud've went Petal, Rite, LED, LED, Wish, ETW for 14 which is a 2 turn clock against his 3.

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Originally Posted by Dr_D

So I took TES to my local last night. The deck seemed great as always but I only got to keep one 7 across all 4 rounds which was pretty depressing. Anyway, I was wondering if there is a way out of this situation I found myself in last night...

It's game 1 against UWR delver. His board is a flipped delver and moastery swiftspear. I've stripped all countermagic, leaving him with 2 ponders, a fetchland, and a wasteland in hand.

I'm down to 3 life, from quick creature beats as well as probing and my board is Usea, Volc, Swamp. My hand is rite of flame, burning wish, LED x2, and lotus petal. Opponent is at 19. Is there anything that could have been done here? I had no rituals in the yard to go for a PiF kill and goblins wouldn't get me there as I would die when he swings with his delver. I'm sure I misplayed somewhere in the game to get into this situation, but can anyone see a way out of it? The list I took it identical to Bryant's most current list.

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What kind of cantrips did you have in your graveyard?

You could've gone (t-volc)RoF->LED->LED->LP->(t-swamp)BW, crack LEDs (RBBBUUU)->PiF(RBU), Usea untapped, LP in Play, RoF still in graveyard (don't play it before the cantrips)

Now,
- Storm is 6
- Basically you start of with 6 mana post-PiF: (RBU+U/B+X+R(rof)) x can be any color
- A drawn RoF nets +3 mana to above situation (play drawn RoF (+2), play flashback RoF (+2)) on top of the 5 mana post PiF before flashback RoF)

After that you cantrip.
Cantrip-order: GP(life) > Pon > BS, GP(mana) importance is dependent on your BS/Pon found cards

Outs with GP(life): BW
Outs with GP(life)+BS/Pon/GP(mana): BW + any manasource except for CM, IT+LED/RoF/CR (threshold dependant)
Outs with BS/Pon+BS/Pon: BW+LED/RoF/DR/CR(threshold)

There are more outs as you can still play a land and cast extra cantrips. Fetch+GP(life) doesn't work though.

I'm probably forgetting something so if I am please point that out to me.

~Tom

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Originally Posted by Dr_D

So I took TES to my local last night. The deck seemed great as always but I only got to keep one 7 across all 4 rounds which was pretty depressing. Anyway, I was wondering if there is a way out of this situation I found myself in last night...

It's game 1 against UWR delver. His board is a flipped delver and moastery swiftspear. I've stripped all countermagic, leaving him with 2 ponders, a fetchland, and a wasteland in hand.

I'm down to 3 life, from quick creature beats as well as probing and my board is Usea, Volc, Swamp. My hand is rite of flame, burning wish, LED x2, and lotus petal. Opponent is at 19. Is there anything that could have been done here? I had no rituals in the yard to go for a PiF kill and goblins wouldn't get me there as I would die when he swings with his delver. I'm sure I misplayed somewhere in the game to get into this situation, but can anyone see a way out of it? The list I took it identical to Bryant's most current list.

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I remember the Master Card advertisement:

Diminishing Returns is the way to go if you reach this situation... in here this is Priceless...
I finally stopped to play it because of Dark Petition new card, maybe I come back to it at some point... I love so mu

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Originally Posted by Pelikanudo

I remember the Master Card advertisement:

Diminishing Returns is the way to go if you reach this situation... in here this is Priceless...
I finally stopped to play it because of Dark Petition new card, maybe I come back to it at some point... I love so mu

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I love the card as well, but you give your opponent a 7-card hand out of which Lightning Bolt is an instant loss or any counterspell can be harmful depending on your draw. I think PiF-route is better in this situation.

First off, thanks for all the answers, it's much appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

It sounds like on the previous turn after you played your discard spell that you shoud've went Petal, Rite, LED, LED, Wish, ETW for 14 which is a 2 turn clock against his 3.

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I actually didn't have the wish until that turn, or I would have just made goblins. My memory is really fuzzy as I didn't actually take notes but I know I couldn't have done anything until that exact turn. Maybe it was just too sketchy a hand to keep, but I remember having fast mana, discard, and a cantrip and I didn't want to mull to 5.

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Originally Posted by Dr_D

It's game 1 against UWR delver. His board is a flipped delver and moastery swiftspear. I've stripped all countermagic, leaving him with 2 ponders, a fetchland, and a wasteland in hand.

I'm down to 3 life, from quick creature beats as well as probing ...

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Originally Posted by Pelikanudo

Diminishing Returns is the way to go if you reach this situation

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Alexandre, if you read this: THIS is the stuff I was talking about, which leaves me frustrated. God damn! *facepalm*

So you'd rather scoop than trying to win, even if your chance may be very low due to you dying to a single Bolt and/or permission in your opponent's fresh seven?

That's not how I was taught to play Magic.


I'm not saying Diminishing Returns is good, I'm not even running it any more myself. But IF you have it, and IF you're in the exact situation described above, going for the Returns kill is not only your best, but your only option. The only alternative is scooping, and at that point you should be embarassed because you scooped when there was a way to win.

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Originally Posted by cdnza

Just received my set of foil Dark Petitions today. Can someone please break this card so that I can justify the bad preorder price I paid? Thanks in advance.

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You weren't the person that paid $72 for a foil playset on eBay were you? I stopped bidding on that disaster at $50 and cried after I saw it end.

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Originally Posted by Izor

So you'd rather scoop than trying to win, even if your chance may be very low due to you dying to a single Bolt and/or permission in your opponent's fresh seven?

That's not how I was taught to play Magic.


I'm not saying Diminishing Returns is good, I'm not even running it any more myself. But IF you have it, and IF you're in the exact situation described above, going for the Returns kill is not only your best, but your only option. The only alternative is scooping, and at that point you should be embarassed because you scooped when there was a way to win.

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A nice way to look at the scenario: Run a totally unnecessary card for a fringe situation, which would possibly have been evadable and against all odds of your opponent hitting Daze/Pierce/FoW/Bolt, which also still leaves doubts about you being able to win after spinning the roulette.

Basically we're talking about "ifs" as a result of running a narrow card in the first place. I think the discussion about "rather scooping" is ergo as vit off if you ask me