Yeah, because that would be really freakin' fair to vial. Jesus, think it through.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Seth
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Yeah, because that would be really freakin' fair to vial. Jesus, think it through.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Seth
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Okay, I overlooked something. No need to get angry about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
Wasn't meant as anger. Sorry, I can see how it came off as that, though.
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Hm, forgot about Aether Vial. I wonder if there is a way to word around it.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Ca...iverseid=40545Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzra
Based on the current decks for February the point cutoff to be in the DTB thread is going to be 60.8 points. Elves will barely sneak in there to keep it from being a non-brainstorm shutout.
Change the activated ability to "Exalted, Flanking" and you have yourself a deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer
Top 16 for SCG Atlanta:
Eight different decks in the Top 8, 12 different decks in the Top 16.Quote:
Originally Posted by SCG Atlanta
7/8 and 13/16 use Brainstorm
7/8 and 13/16 use Force of Will
5/16 use Stoneforge Mystic
4/16 use Delver
4/16 use True-Name Nemesis
5-ish combo decks: Reanimator x3, Painted Stone, Infect
Control: 1 UWR Miracles
Tempo: 1 RUG Delver
Tempo/Midrange decks (tough category, but ranges from tempo-heavy to midrange-heavy): 2 BUG Delver, 1 UWR Stoneblade, 1 Shardless BUG, 1 Punishing Jund, 2 Esper Stoneblade, 1 Esper Deathblade, 1 Goblins
The Top 16 is overwhelmingly blue-heavy, with Brainstorm and Force in 13/16 decks. On the other hand, Brainstorm is played alongside pure tempo decks (RUG), pure midrange decks (Shardless), tempo-y midrange-y decks, control decks, and combo decks.
That Top 16 is simultaneously extremely diverse and extremely blue heavy. To me this seems very typical of Legacy.
I mean it's mostly Stoneforge and/or Delver based aggro-control lists. Really not that diverse. Or we wouldn't have considered it so in old Legacy, where a top 8 that was 6/8 Thresh wasn't diverse just because RUG, BUG and WUG were all equally represented.
Do you mean it's typical of modern Legacy or Legacy traditionally? I'll agree it's typical of what gets passed off as diversity these days.
YepQuote:
Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin
Phage being put into play via Aether Vial still loses you the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
That was the point I was making.
It's only 7/16 Delver or Stoneforge, for what that's worth.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin
By "old Legacy", do you mean pre-TNN, or do you mean pre-Tarmogoyf, or somewhere in the middle? I want to make sure I answer the right question, and "Thresh" makes me think of Mystic Enforcer vs. Fledgling Dragon. I wasn't being super specific, but I guess the blue-ness of this Top 16 is more extreme than I can remember. However, the SCG Open in St. Louis was 10/16 blue decks.
I'd be really curious to see how the breakdown of Top 8s by deck type has changed over time. How much of a presence were Jund and Maverick back in their heydays? Did the format shift away from Jund with the printing of TNN, or was it before TNN was printed? My gut feeling is that Jund died down long before TNN was spoiled, but I don't have hard data for that.
From Jan-Oct 2013, Jund was #3 and Maverick was #7.Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryTroll
I don't remember blue consistently putting up results in the 75+% range.Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryTroll
Jund was pretty much destroyed by TNN. It's Maverick that died down long before TNN.Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryTroll
I've gone through the data, and this is a common misconception that is just wrong. I went back and looked at the Top 8's from all 33+ player tourneys (6 round minimum) from Jan-Oct 2013 and Maverick was #7 during that pre-TNN era. #7 isn't exactly super duper top tier, but it's certainly a far cry from "dead" as so many think it was pre-TNN.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Just curious, have you compared its total results vs. 8+ round tournaments, I think its lack of success in that aspect is what drives the narrative that it was "dead." Also, posted my February numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal
I did not. I thought that we had agreed that we'd be using all 33+ player tourneys and only Top 8's. That was the criteria that I used for all analysis for Jan-Oct 2013.Quote:
Originally Posted by HSCK
Not for discussing tiers, just as a personal curiosity. February was a really slow month for tourneys btw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal
Regardless of new cards and interactions, the Legacy community base has grown quite a bit since the format was first created. Due to the strong online presence of magic these days and an increase in tournament coverage, the archtypes are more distinct. Which is to say that generally certain builds are proven and shown to perform better, thus pushing out fringe builds and non-archtypes. If I say RUG Delver, you know about 56 out of 60 of the cards that I'm talking about. If I said WUG Threshold in 2005, you only know maybe 40 of the 60. Decks today are better and tighter than they were back in the day, and this means bad news for brews (especially weak ones).Quote:
Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin
To say that Legacy is not diverse today compared to ye ole days is not exactly fair since it is no longer as reasonable to show up with a brew and just take down a tournament in such a developed format. More players, more tournaments, more tournament coverage, and more online discussion all come together to create a less "wild west" and a more definite meta. Traditional Legacy verses Modern Legacy is nothing more than the format growing up and developing.
For reference: GP Philadelphia '05
On top of that, we now have weekly large tournaments (the SCG Open series) that the community is watching. That in itself is rapidly evolving the meta (or at least skewing it) towards what is most popular on the SCG circuit.