[DTB] Team America (Aggro/Tempo Thread)

Infest really, really sucks, the entire point of Fire Spout is that it's a sweeper vs Merfolk even with a lord or two on the board AND it kills every last Zoo creature barring Goyf. I think you're better off boarding your R mana sources and playing Fire Spout than you are boarding Infest.

Also, maybe just over boarding for Zoo and Goblins, like 8 Blue/Hydro Blasts does the job? Not sucking in the Aggro-Loam, Burn and TES match ups as well is pretty baller.

Spell Pierce MD blows, the entire point of Thought Seize is that it's worth a damn vs Goblins and clears the path for T2 Sinkhole.

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Originally Posted by Hanni

The strain on the manabase for Firespout just hasn't been worth it. A single Wasteland in the early game completely shuts the deck off of either BB for Tombstalker/Sinkhole, or blue in general (Underground Sea + Bayou is the typical play).

Firespout is a badass card, especially with 5 flyers, and especially with the ability to cast it with both green and red mana... but ultimately, consistency issues make the deck too unreliable for me. 3c is shaky as it is.

I like the Infest idea. It doesn't deal with Kird Apes, Wild Nacatl's, or 3/3's (pumped by Lords), but it answers most swarm aggro. Snuff Out hits the bigger guys/Lords, which can strengthen Infest. Not the best answer ever, but going 4c is really pushing it, and I don't see any better alternatives. Pernicious Deed is really slow for this deck, and against aggro, something faster is important.

The new rendition:

U/B/g Team America

// Lands
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
4 [A] Underground Sea
2 [A] Tropical Island
1 [B] Bayou
1 [7E] Island (2)
4 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [FUT] Tombstalker
1 [MOR] Vendilion Clique

// Spells
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [M10] Ponder
4 [SC] Stifle
3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
4 [DD2] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [MM] Snuff Out
4 [A] Sinkhole

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [A] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 4 [ARE] Duress
SB: 4 [ON] Infest
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip

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a) Good luck loosing to Ichorid. Even with GY hate it's a hard matchup... T1 Putrid Imp is GG.

b) Duress in the sideboard. Why? Loosing to combo is as hard as jumping in the air and missing. You might want it against control( in place of Snuff Out,) but there I would want something more gamewinning, like some Dark Confidant or some stupid cards like Winter Orb or Extirpate.

c) Infest is weak... I haven't had to much problems against Zoo with 4 BEB's in the board and. Normally you stall the board with Goyf and shrink there cats and apes and win with Tombstalker. Against Merfolk and Goblins it's slightly worse than Engineered Plague... Sorcery speed makes it silly against Ichorid. If you want something faster then Pernicious Deed, you might want to test out Engineered Explosives.

d) Island MD is not my favorite, but if you go that direction isn't Misty Rainforest >> Verdant Catacombs, so a 4/0 split better than 2/2. It has been a damn long time ago someone played Needle on a fetch or Extirpated one of them.

Benie

I'm looking for a solution against tribal/aggro deck.

This is my side actually:

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [OD] Divert
SB: 1 [RAV] Darkblast
SB: 3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [OD] Ghastly Demise
4 aggro open slot

Infest is a not enough. A cc3 sorcery that vs merfolk is a cc4 sorcery.
Plague is a half-Infest. Not enough too.

I'm thinking to play 4 smother...:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by kikkofrio

I'm looking for a solution against tribal/aggro deck.

This is my side actually:

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [OD] Divert
SB: 1 [RAV] Darkblast
SB: 3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [OD] Ghastly Demise
4 aggro open slot

Infest is a not enough. A cc3 sorcery that vs merfolk is a cc4 sorcery.
Plague is a half-Infest. Not enough too.

I'm thinking to play 4 smother...:rolleyes:

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Just two question. What are you going to side out, if you want to bring in 8 removal spells and maybe 3 sweepers?

And with which other tribal/aggro decks( except Merfolk obviously) do you have trouble?

If you got 4 spaces left you might want to play 1 Volcanic Island and 3 Volcanic Fallout. But I wouldn't worry that much about the merfolk matchup, you need to bring in more than 8 cards to win that matchup, and I don't want to bastard my SB for it.

Benie

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Originally Posted by Benie Bederios

1 Volcanic Island and 3 Volcanic Fallout

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:really:

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Originally Posted by keys

:really:

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He probably meant firespout.

I'm sure this has come up in the thread, so someone can just PM me the answer, but what does this deck do about Swords to Plowshares? It runs 8-9 creatures, no Top. The only digging you get is Ponder/Brainstorm. If they plow your guy, do you cantrip and pray?

If they have white mana to play sword or pact, you have counter.
If they have sword or pact, you have waste or sinkhole for they white land.
If they have sword or pact and white mana, you have seize.

I,m testing this sideboard and i like a lot.

SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [OD] Divert
SB: 4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 2 [B] Volcanic Island
SB: 4 [SHM] Firespout

wouldnt Verdant Catacombs be better than Bloodstained mire? and are we sure that 3 green mana sources are enough?

and what about hymms instead of thoughtseizes? or a couple of trygon predators?

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Originally Posted by Kanabo

wouldnt Verdant Catacombs be better than Bloodstained mire? and are we sure that 3 green mana sources are enough?

and what about hymms instead of thoughtseizes? or a couple of trygon predators?

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People are playing verdant catacombs over mire. No one has mentioned playing mire since well before the new fetches were even rumoured.

ok yea thats what i was thinking but i just wantd to confirm it. and why doesnt this deck run trygon predators?

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Originally Posted by Kanabo

ok yea thats what i was thinking but i just wantd to confirm it. and why doesnt this deck run trygon predators?

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He's not very good. Not enough decks use artifact's and enchantments for it to be good. He's a lot of mana and can't even trade with a one drop like wild nacatal or nimble mongoose.

ok, and do you think 3 green sources is enough in a deck like this? i also have 3 kgrips in sb and 3 deeds.

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ok, and do you think 12 (3 duals and 9 Fetch) green sources is enough in a deck like this? i also have 3 kgrips in sb and 3 deeds.

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Yes, we think it is..

Anyway, while its obvious were the problems of TA lie in the current metagame, i was wondering, if something like this could be more viable:

// Lands
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [B] Bayou
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [B] Underground Sea
2 [B] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tombstalker
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [ZEN] Gatekeeper of Malakir

// Spells
4 [SC] Stifle
4 [NE] Daze
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [LRW] Ponder
4 [AL] Force of Will

+ 8 Combination of:
- Thoughtseize
- Snuff Out
- Spell Snare
(having 4 Seize and 4 Snuff may be to costly in terms of life against Zoo)


Board:
4 Spell Pierce
11 X

New possible approaches / goals:
- More answers to creatures.
- Move from a mostly sorcery based version to an instant based version, which is one of the selling points of Tempo ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh imo).

Also Spell Pierce may be a very good card for Tempo Decks, mostly against Chalice and Trinisphere, but they counter Relic, Vial and Top too ..

How does this look?

Team America

Mana:
4 wasteland
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Polluted delta
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs

Creatures:
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Tombstalker

Spells:
4 Stifle
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Snuff Out
4 Sinkhole
4 Thoughtsieze

Sideboard:
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Pithing needle
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Krosan Grip

I haven't tested them personally, but they seem anti-synergetic with both Tarmogoyf and especially Tombstalker. If your meta consist of many graveyard dependent decks, I would probably run 4 Tormod's Crypt, as Dan suggest in the primer. You could maybe experiment with Yixlid Jailer, which has the added bonus of being an additional beater.

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Originally Posted by Kanabo

How does this look?
Sideboard:
3 Relic of Progenitus

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the relics are for ichorid, and jailer would be too slow to prevent ichorid from winning. ichorid usually only takes 1-3 turns to win, and jailer takes 2 but using a daze it would take 3...too slow in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Kanabo

the relics are for ichorid, and jailer would be too slow to prevent ichorid from winning. ichorid usually only takes 1-3 turns to win, and jailer takes 2 but using a daze it would take 3...too slow in my opinion.

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Yixlid Jailer :1: :b:

Relic of Progenitis :1: + :1: to activate...

If mana cost of 2 is such an issue isn't Tormod's Crypt superior (vs Ichorid) to both anyway, costing :0: and not RFGing your Graveyard, so Goyf and Tombstalker are relevant?

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Originally Posted by from Cairo

Yixlid Jailer :1: :b:

Relic of Progenitis :1: + :1: to activate...

If mana cost of 2 is such an issue isn't Tormod's Crypt superior (vs Ichorid) to both anyway, costing :0: and not RFGing your Graveyard, so Goyf and Tombstalker are relevant?

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but by taking out their whole graveyard, you might make your goyfs even smaller then they would be when you cast a tombstalker. and relic only costs 1 if you only want to remove one relevant card in their graveyard such as a dredger or deep analasys.