Printable View
Hey there. I'm a returning sneak and show player - had multiple top 8s in my local majors last year then didn't play the decks for a year - I gotta say, I missed the deck even more.
So anyway, @JPA i've been reading your mtgo lists recently and I can see you've been trying different builds. Do you think that the preordain style is better than the gitaxian probe style now? (last year i was on gitaxian probe style, but last year's different from this year) :D
Main deck 1-ofs? Misdirection wrecks Shardless BUG, Jace and Top are pretty good as well. Strong sideboard choices include Blood Moon, Through the Breach and Leyline of Sanctity. Against Miracles Jace does a lot of work, eating a counter in the worst case, taking over the game in the best case (be wary of open mana for flash creatures to kill off Jace). Post-board you can use the combination of Boseiju and Omniscience or Boseiju + Through the Breach to great effect. Even if you don't run Boseiju / Omniscience, other sideboard cards like REB can help your post-board Miracles matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by RhoxWarMonk
Welcome back.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRandomGuy
They haven't posted my most recent list (I'm not sure, but I think only 1 Daily per day gets posted), but I returned to the Probe-version. I still really like the consistency Preordain provides, even though I sometimes found myself cantripping into cantrips in the early game.
Yeah that's what I thought too (since i played omnitell to success as well) cantripping into cantrips is a good thing if we still have dtt. I guess going 4 pierce 3 probe and 1 intuition 1 jace is the way to go. I like your sb plan as always, but i'm really iffy on the leylines. How'd that work for you? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA
The latest list that got posted, which is already 3 weeks old, was an experiment with all the cards I had previously discarded as bad choices (no basic mountain, no Blood Moon, Jace, Omniscience, Leyline). Even though I had success with the list I found that Leyline is still not worth it (maybe if Jund makes a comeback), Basic Mountain is necessary, especially in an open meta, and Blood Moon is one of our strongest SB bombs. Omniscience impressed me, Jace was better than expected, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRandomGuy
That led me to my GPSeaTac list (I posted it last page), with which I went 5-0 in a trial and 1-3 after Byes at the GP.
The failed GP made me rethink my list (even though I think I scrubbed out because of terrible variance and the list is still well-tuned) and I rebuilt my GPNJ list for the current meta. I'm still testing for the MOCS, so I'm not set on anything yet.
I'll play your list at our major LGS event this Sunday.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA
Here's an updated list derived from your GP NJ list last year, it's the stock gitaxian probe build but I maxed out the spell pierce since it's really good right now.
Lands: 19
4 Scalding Tarn
3 polluted delta
3 volcanic island
3 ancient tomb
2 city of traitors
3 island
1 mountain
creatures: 8
4 griselbrand
4 emrakul, the aeons torn
spells: 33
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 lotus petal
4 sneak attack
4 show and tell
4 force of will
4 spell pierce
3 gitaxian probe
1 misdirection
1 jace, the mind sculptor (intuition?)
sideboard:
2 through the breach
2 blood moon
1 wipe away
1 red elemental blast
1 pyroblast
2 omniscience (ashen rider(?))
1 boseiju, who shelters all
3 pyroclasm
2 grafdigger's cage
Pretty stock list. My meta has MUD, Reanimator, Miracles, Delver, possibly Sneak and Show (I think I'm the only sneak and show player here in our area lol). I might try to squeeze in an Ashen Rider for MUD and possible mirror matches. I'm not too afraid against containment priest. I think I can play around it with probes or counter it once the opponent responds to my show and tell or sneak attack activation with it.
Looking to get into this deck, everything seems pretty straightforward so far, only thing I'd like to know is if Cabal Therapy is worth consideration when playing with Gitaxian Probe
Doesn't seem too shabby with Sneak Attack either.Quote:
Originally Posted by redesign1991
A black splash (for Thoughtseize replacing Probe, don't know if there is space for both Probe and Therapy without diluting the main deck) is only worth it in a combo/Miracles-heavy meta. The downside against decks that include mana-denial is just too big.Quote:
Originally Posted by redesign1991
We already have protection with 8 counter spells, I see no need for another angle of protection / disruption.
Hi, please can u write some indications about sideboarding strategies? I red something about this in opening post but the list is very old.....anyway thanks :)Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRandomGuy
Inviato dal mio TF300T utilizzando Tapatalk
Ever tried playing with the flu? Fever, migraine, and you doing your damned best not to be the "Infect" player? Well, that's what I did, and it still carried me all the way to top 8, so not bad, I guess. Here's my decklist, which is literally just different from JPA's deck by two cards:
Stock 51 (16 combo pieces, 4 FoW, 4 BS, 4 Ponder, 4 Lotus Petal, stock manabase)
3 Preordain
1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Spell Pierce
1 Misdirection
SB:
2 Omniscience
2 Through the Breach
1 Boseiju, who shelters All
2 Pyroclasm
1 Sudden Shock
1 Flusterstorm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Blood Moon
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
Here's a brief report of what went down. The tournament was one for a Tundra, and I wanted to win it bad, not to mention to have my name on the "wall of fame" in the store. I was considering an Omniscience mix, but after testing that, it didn't seem so good to me.
Round 1, vs. Death and Taxes (with Tarmogoyf)
I won the die roll, and opened with a solid hand of sol land, basics, Show and Tell, Spell Pierce, and Griselbrand. He heads straight to Talia on turn 2, I Sol Land into Show and Tell into Griselbrand on my turn 3. I held my breath, but he had nothing to deal with Griselbrand, and so I untapped with the ability to protect him, and rode him to victory.
Sideboarding: -4 Spell Pierce, -2 Show and Tell, -1 Preordain, +2 Pyroclasm, +1 Sudden Shock, +2 Through The Breach, +1 Echoing Truth, +1 Wipe Away
Game 2, he opens with Thoughtseize, and nabs my Show and Tell, which he promptly targets with Surgical Extraction. Of course, he was surprised to find I had only 2 copies going around. He got to a few turns of beating me down with Goyf and Ethersorn Canonist, but I killed both via play error, because both of us forgot that Ethersworn would pump Goyf once she dies to Clasm. No matter, because next turn, I TTB into Emrakul, and he has only 5 permanents, 6 if you counted Goyf, and he was far from lethal. I then controlled the game and found another TTB into Griselbrand a few turns later.
Round 2, vs. Reanimator
I win the die roll. We mostly draw-go, as he didn't have much in the way of discard, and I had a lot of Spell Pierces at the ready, but when I hit Show and Tell for Griselbrand, I expected he had his own. We drew cards, but I had a better stockpile when we traded our Griselbrands into each other. With a lot of lands on both our sides, he reanimates a Tidespout Tyrant with no incident from me. I Show and Tell into Sneak Attack, then promptly put Emrakul into play. I had enough mana to replay Sneak Attack one more time and re-activate for Emmy, so he scooped at that point.
Sideboarding: -4 Show and Tell, -1 Preordain, +1 Flusterstorm, +2 Grafdigger's Cage, +2 Through The Breach
Game 2, we keep on drawing and going, but when I figured he was soft to a TTB into Emrakul on turn 4, I went for it, and he scooped even if I had nothing to follow that up with.
Round 3, vs. BUG
Game 1, I tried to combo out a total of 4 times in 6 turns. He countered me three times. The last time, I got a Preordain, and Preordain got me a Show and Tell into Griselbrand. He swung the game for me because if I had no Griselbrand, he would have been lethal with Delver + Goyf already.
Sideoarding: -2 Force of Will, -4 Sneak Attack, -2 Spell Pierce, +2 Pyroclasm, +2 Through The Breach, +2 Omniscience, +1 Boseiju, +1 Echoing Truth
Game 2, Hymn to Tourach wrecked my plans, and Goyf and Delver took him all the way. I couldn't assemble my combo at all.
Sideboarding: -2 Force of Will, +2 Spell Pierce
Game 3, TTB + Boseiju was my friend. Twice.
Round 4, vs. Elves
ID
Round 5, vs. MUD
ID
Top 8: vs. BUG
I was making a lot of misplays throughout the tourney, but nothing so fatal yet. This top 8 proved to be my undoing, unfortunately.
In game 1, I went first with this hand: Show and Tell, Griselbrand, Sol Land, Fetchland, Lotus Petal, Sneak Attack, Sneak Attack. I went for the first turn Shwo and Tell, as he mulled to 6, and whoops, what do you know, he had FOW. I couldn't recover from there.
Sideboarding: -2 Force of Will, -4 Sneak Attack, +2 Through The Breach, +2 Omniscience, +1 Boseiju, +1 Echoing Truth
Game 2 was great, or so I thought. I had him mostly under control because Boseiju was in play and I had TTB and Emrakul at the ready, and Sensei's in play. My mistake was when he tried to Hymn me, I Brainstormed to FOW it, but due to the number of cards left, I hid away my combo as the two cards, just in case he was going to counter my FOW. He didn't. I cast an uncounterable TTB into Emrakul, but the problem was, I had to use Top to do it. This meant Top got shuffled away, and he recovered before I could.
Not bad for a guy who couldn't think properly. I suppose I could've played better if I were feeling better, but a Windswept Heath for my efforts isn't bad at all.
Congrats on your finish. How did you like the preordain build vs the git probe build? Did you find that was too many cantrips as a whole? Was there ever a time you couldn't go off in fear of your opponent sandbagging a FoW or spell pierce?
I'm on the Git Probe plan at the moment (with 1 preordain and 1 misdirection in my flex slots). I also really liked your SB, similar to JPAs as well I think, was there anything you'd change there?
The Preordains, given that I ran 3, which could have been Gitaxians instead, seemed interchangeable at this point with the Probes. However, because I was running Preordain, I never felt the need to have Intuition in my deck at all. I had the combo when I needed it. I don't think I would have played differently if I had Gitaxian probes in my hand because anytime I ran S and T blind, I didn't have a Preordain prior to that, anyways, and since they were 1-for-1 swaps, this meant the peek at the hand couldn't have made a difference so much as the card quality fixing definitely did.Quote:
Originally Posted by RhoxWarMonk
Of course, there's a lot to be said about not having to spend actual mana on the Probe, though. That is still a very important feature that I find important about Probe, but I'm completely ambivalent between the two at the moment.
As for the sideboard, the one difference was the Wipe Away. I still haven't mastered my sideboarding, obviously, and in fact, would love advice on what I may have done wrong, but one card I missed was the one-of I jammed in during my last tournament with Sneak and Show: Keranos. Keranos has been great for me since I have a singleton Sensei's Divining Top, and helps me keep so many things at bay, because it's a one-card combo, as it were. I might want to try and see how it would work out if I put in one Keranos in place of the second TTB.
Obviously, I knew where my actual play errors lay, but I still wasn't entirely sure if boarding in Omniscience vs. Delver decks was the right course of action. It seemed to be the right call at the time, if only for the fact that I see them boarding in Pithing Needle against me all the time, and it invalidates that card.
I wouldn't bring in Omniscience against Delver decks, since they can't deal with a resolved Show and Tell (unless it's BUG Delver, which might have Liliana of the Veil as a 1- or 2-of). Omniscience is great against Miracles (or any UWx deck that runs Containment Priest), Death and Taxes (gets around Karakas by casting Emrakul), the mirror (lets you keep in 2 Show and Tells and win via Show-Omni-Emrakul) and to less effect Reanimator (where it still gets eaten by Ashen Rider) and Storm (lets you either win or the spot with Emrakul or cast all your counters for free).Quote:
Originally Posted by mistervader
I have no idea why you board out Sneak Attack against BUG Delver in fear of a potential 1-of Pithing Needle. Lowering your threat-density is very wrong in that matchup. You definitely want the Blood Moons, since they usually end the game on the spot, even if they have a Deathrite Shaman out. Pyroclasm is only good against the Dark Confidant - version, not so much against the standard build. I'd also recommend leaving Through the Breach in the sideboard, it's way too expensive against a deck running 4 Daze.
Your sideboarding against D&T seems fine, even though you definitely want 2 Omniscience to get around Karakas more easily. You can safely board out 2 FoWs, since they are terrible topdecks if they start off with an early Aether Vial.
Against Reanimator, both Omniscience and Boseiju are pretty good. Boseiju especially, which (obviously) has great synergy with Through the Breach against a deck with 4 FoW 4 Daze (and possible sideboarded Flusterstorms/Spell Pierces).
Just some quick ideas, I hope that helps. Congrats on your finish!
Will definitely take your advice for sideboarding! Any thoughts on replacing one TTB with Keranos, since he gets around Thalia's tax effect? I'm sure I could have done better if I wasn't battling a migraine and a fever, but admittedly, my mulligan decisions as it stood weren't particularly strong that day, to begin with. I think I mulled only once the entire tournament and kept a lot of shaky hands, and I knew they were shaky.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA
In any case, I will keep repping this deck for the foreseeable future. My other decks are storm-based and Oops, and I tire of running those when it's not in Vintage.
Austin Lambkin won the Kansas City 5k Premier IQ with a pretty innovative take on Sneak and Show. 20 lands, 2/2 Probe/Preordain split, Izzet Staticaster, Inferno Titan?!
He went undefeated 9-0-1 over 7 rounds of Swiss and the Top 8, congrats on a huge performance!
That's interesting, I wonder what he brought Inferno Titan in against?! I noticed it is played a lot in the mono-red version of Sneak Attack, but I've never seen it (even SB) in this version.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA
Izzet Staticaster is a nice touch, I may have to playtest that in my board as well.
0_o Yeah me too.. any reports ? :P
Hello everyone I wanted to share with you some thoughts on the list that won the last SCG.
Also I was already testing for some time a very similar list (-1fetch +1 probe) and I have always enjoyed it because in this deck usually has lists
almost always very similar differing usually for two cards each, these two cards depending on the different meta of the tournament (Jace, sensei, misdirection, intuition, fire/ice, etc ...)
the problem is that almost always in those two SLOT are a tutor or something to dig the deck for find combo or counter.
in this case the 2 preordain is great because they are excellent drawers and make the deck very slender, also are never a bad top deck.
then I wanted to ask you what you think of playing 20 lands... the only thing left unchanged in the years of S & S was its excellent manabase despite being a combo,
and if what you think of adding a Boseiju instead of a fetch as 20th land saw cause the spread of miracles in tournaments.
I also really like the split between 3/1 pierce/flusterstorm, which helps us in a counterwar or against combo
and leaving 3 pierce who they were very good in the early game against BUG and Miracle.
The only big problem for me is don't have TTB in the side, for me bosejiu with TTB is a very strong alrernative plan.
let me know what you think of this deck analysis,
thank you all...
Hi guys I'm new in this forum and with this deck too. My actual mainboard list is usual with 16 combo pieces, 10 cantrips 8 counters, 3 probe, 19 lands, 4 petals. My side is actually 2 blood moon, 1-2 grafdigger cage, 2 pyroclasm. What do you think? What is better to add? Omniscience? Through the breach? Boseiju? Swan song? More pyroclasm?
And another question maybe more important: how to side? In the first post is explained but not against all decks. Against maverick? Jund? Lands? Grixis delver/control? Infect? Dredge? What to side in and what to side out?
I'm a newbie and I really need help! Thank you! (And yes my English is actually bad because I'm Italian [emoji14])
Inviato dal mio ASUS_Z00ED utilizzando Tapatalk
I'll take this generic list that I played in a Daily for sideboarding advice. As always, please take this as general suggestions rather than strict instructions.Quote:
Originally Posted by kharonte666
Maverick: -3 Spell Pierce, -1 Intuition, -1 Misdirection, -1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor, -2 Force of Will +2 Pyroclasm, +1 Sudden Shock, +2 Blood Moon, +1 Wipe Away, +2 Through the Breach
Jund: -1 Intuition, -1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor, -3 Gitaxian Probe, -1 Force of Will, +2 Pyroclasm, +1 Wipe Away, +2 Through the Breach, +1 Flusterstorm
Lands: -3 Gitaxian Probe, -1 Misdirection, -1 Intuition, +2 Blood Moon, +2 Through the Breach, +1 Wipe Away
Grixis Delver (I assume you mean the currently popular 4c list with 1 Tropical): -1 Intuition, -2 Gitaxian Probe, -1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor, -1 Misdirection, -2 Force of Will, +2 Pyroclasm, +2 Defense Grid, +2 Red Elemental Blast, +1 Flusterstorm
Infect: -1 Sneak Attack, -1 Intuition, -1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor, -1 Misdirection, -4 Force of Will, -1 Gitaxian Probe, +2 Pyroclasm, +1 Sudden Shock, +1 Wipe Away, +1 Flusterstorm, +2 Red Elemental Blast, +2 Blood Moon
Dredge: -1 Sneak Attack, -3 Gitaxian Probe, -1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor, -1 Misdirection, -1 Intuition, +2 Grafdigger's Cage, +1 Flusterstorm, +2 Red Elemental Blast, +2 Pyroclasm