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Daze is better than Counterspell :) ... it helps to survive first few turns, while we have to tap out. Later in the game it is easy to filter with SDT and Brainstorm, or simply pitch to force. And it can be easily hardcasted. Just don't use it on 1st turn and it works rather nicely...Quote:
Originally Posted by FredMaster
Obviously, it is quite dependent on your local metagame. If you have lots of Landstill, use Counterspell. In my aggro metagame, I never had time to cast Counterspell...
i am going to test out 1 Lonely Sandbar in the deck to c how that goes, it def gives the deck A little more draw, which can possibly make u win quicker, while still having lots of control in hand and can be abused w/ loam
ITF to me love the land drops. Daze goes against this imo. Daze is amazingly powerful early on and becomes Force fodder later. Counterspell is not strong with 1 island or before you get 2 out, but maintains strength from then on.
Although I've never tried it, Lonely Sandbar isn't a terrible draw engine. I'd run 2 though just to have Loam give me land drop and 2 draws that conveniently cost the same as Counterspell mana so I can hold them til EoT.
Steve Sadin played an ITF-ish variant at the SCG 5k on Sunday to a top-16 finish. I played him in round 6. He only ran 2 Intuition, no Witness, no Stronghold, no Deed in favor of more countermagic (Spell Snare) and somehow crammed 3 Factory and 1 Wasteland into a 4-color manabase. He also played Lonely Sandbar. I had no idea what he was playing during the actual match. I don't know how good his build is, but it's certainly interesting. He's a really nice guy as well.
has anyone had probs w/ red decks? have you tried circle of protection: red?? ive never played w/ it, but in theory it is in addition to cb, it is a guaranteed win vs burn and goyf sligh...and helps vs gobs
Here it is :Quote:
Originally Posted by Misplayer
//CounterTop Goyf, by Steve Sadin
//Downloaded from StarCityGames.com
2 Counterspell
4 Island
4 Force of Will
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
2 Spell Snare
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Trinket Mage
1 Vedalken Shackles
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Brainstorm
4 Flooded Strand
1 Lonely Sandbar
4 Polluted Delta
1 Life from the Loam
2 Intuition
1 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
// Sideboard:
SB: 3 Duress
SB: 4 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Hydroblast
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
Interesting List, i read somewhere that Gerry Thompson played a smilar list, but wasn't plesead with it.
It play 24 Lands, it counted correctly, thats very much, what do you think ?
I just recently picked up this deck and I've got some questions for you all. The decklist I used was posted in this article with David Gearhart
http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showt...highlight=fear
A few things I noticed right away is that the Witness seems unnecessary, and I feel like it needs a Lonely Sandbar. Intuitioning for a pile with Witness is ungodly slow and just seems unneeded with the other recursion. The lack of a cycle land presented problems for me when I wanted to Life but couldn't because it ate my draw step as well. I'm going to try firing the Witness for a Spell Snare and dropping the V Stronghold for the aforementioned Sandbar. I might try to rework the mana or look at what other people have done to keep the Stronghold and add a Sandbar but the Witness has got to go.
I tested the original list against a CounterTop list that played Stifle and it was a beating. Stifle was ruinous. Not only does it slow down your mana but the fact that it counters the sweepers was backbreaking. I was also having problems with their CB, hence the change to add a Spell Snare. SS seems like it would help with tempo in general as well. I never cast an Etched Oracle, do people still like that card?
I really like what this deck is trying to do but if it gets stomped by Thresh I can't really justify playing it.
Witness can really be used to its full capacity with serious Volrath's Stronghold recursion. Once that engine gets going, it can be difficult to stop (depending on what they're playing). There is, however, spot removal that can be quite troublesome. The Stronghold adds a level of recursion that could be critical when attempting to bring back important creatures, say for blocking, attacking for the win, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Destavi
I can see the logic about the Sandbar with Loam, but that too could be seen as "ungodly" slow based on what you're trying to do. If you are staring down an alpha strike and you need help, dropping that Witness and grabbing a key spell could mean the difference between losing and winning, or at the very least stabilizing.
Well yes, I too believe that Witness recursion is too slow and clunky, as I had repeatedly stated in this very forum. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Destavi
But I don't know about Lonely Sandbar - I understand where this is going, but I have tried playing LftL with only one cycling land before, and the results were quite... bad. This way you dredge LftL, play it for 2 mana, cycle the Sandbar and after investing 3 mana, you just got to draw the normal one card for your turn. Which means that you can't use it to gain card advantage - you only trade one dredge for one draw.
The reason to include Sandbar may be only to build Intuition piles, where you immediately get access to LftL (as you already have stated in your post). That may be quite important if you play Wasteland and/or Mishra's Factory. Pile of LftL+Wasteland+Sandbar gets you the Wasteland "right here and now".
I can't possibly imagine the build of Thresh that you are repeatedly losing against. Last time I played against Thresh, it CB+Top locked me twice during the same game, and I broke out rather easily both times. But I play Daze maindeck (do not try this at home! :D) and I was able to fight through his early tempo gain (Stifle on my fetch) both games.
The addition of Spell Snares is awesome, but remember - you have to keep at least 10 2cc spells in the deck, in order to fully utilize to power of CB. Cutting the Witness for Spell Snare - great. Cutting the Counterspell for it - not so much.
Etched Oracle - I'm not sure about this card. I want to have some kind of unstoppable unkillable recurrable kill condition, and Oracle fits this description. If you ever come at something that fits this description as well, all while being better than Oracle, share this wisdom with me please.
What do you think of a build like this:
// Lands
4 [B] Tropical Island
2 [B] Tundra
1 [SHM] Plains (3)
3 [RAV] Island (1)
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
4 [Zan?] Misty Rainforest
1 [RAV] Forest (1)
// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
3 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
1 [JU] Genesis
1 [FD] Eternal Witness
// Spells
1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [DIS] Spell Snare (two in the board)
1 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
4 [CS] Counterbalance
2 [MM] Counterspell
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
4 [TE] Intuition
1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
Notes:
-One big chance is to drop black for more manabase stability. Therefore i added Genesis as creature recursion engine. If you think its not good enough, at least consider it as a sb option.
-Theres also the possibility to remove Genesis and two lands for Volraths Stronghold and two Underground Sea, which would also enable Etched Oracle again.
-Additionally i added 4 Hierarch for stability / accel (which also made Deed worse).
-Blue count is only 18 spells. I would like to fit in a couple of Spell Snares.
Noble heirarch has no place in this deck, I'd sooner run mox diamond. I do kind of like the inclusion of genesis, but I'm not sure you have a way to assuredly get him in the graveyard, or that you have enough creatures to justify his inclusion.
Hi guys, after 2 months of testing i decided to try out "ITF" into two tournaments (32 & 50 partecipants) that were organized in Milan before the super-eternal event "EuroOvino4" and i must admit that i was really impressed about this deck performances...
I managed to win the 1st one and get to top4 in the second one with the following list:
“ITF, It’s The Fear”
Maindeck :
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Eternal Witness
1 Etched Oracle
4 Swords To Plowshares
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
4 Counterbalance
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Vedalken Shackles
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei’s Divining Top
4 Intuition
1 Crucible of worlds
1 Life from the Loam
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
3 Underground sea
2 Tundra
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Wasteland
1 Volrath’s Stronghold
1 Academy Ruins
Sideboard :
3 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Krosan Grip
3 Ghastly Demise
3 Engineered Plague
3 Tormod’s Crypt
The only difference between mine and Deep6er's classic list was the addiction of 1 crucible in place of an Engineered Explosives and of 1 wasteland for a polluted delta... made the choice because here in Milan we are full of landstill players and vs them crucible+waste recursion is just the nuts.
The SB was tuned VS goblins and merfolks that are also pretty popular here.
I was really satisfied by the crucible but sometimes i have to admit that i missed the 2nd E.E., expecially in the 1st match vs some aggro decks.
For the next events i would like to test the following SB settings since the only matchups where i had a really hard time were VS AggroLoam (tho i didn't saw a single counterbalance=autowin in 6 matches -.-):
3 BeB
3 Krosan
4 Engineered plagues
3 Extirpates
2 Tormod crypts
What you think about this setup? and expecially what you think about the 1 crucible / 1 waste MD?
Let's keep the topic active cause ITF it's the win!
Savage NECRO!!!
I love this deck and I know it's still being played and well in fact. I've recently been dreaming of adding 3 Bloodghast to this deck to be able to apply hectic pressure through intuition. Bloodghast is such a savage creature for control because it requires no mana investment and keeps coming back for doing what control does best, playing lands. Combined with the other elements of this deck (read goyf) it seems like it would be amazing at just stealing wins and bitch slapping the opponent out of nowhere.
I cant quite figure out what to cut yet though and Im a bit worried the deck would be too reliant on the graveyard but I rate it might just be worth a try.
Thoughts?
woot... there is life on this thread!
Tbh i don't think that bloodghast isn'tthe best choice for a control deck since it can't block... and well the main problem for ITF are aggro decks that overwhelms you with beasts that you actually need to stop somehow :/
Btw during the last month managed to get 2 more top8s with ITF trying a new SB focused to beat zoo/goblin and merfolks that are actually overplayed here...
4 Blue elem blast
4 Path to exile
2 Krosan grip
3 Extirpate
2 Tormod's crypt
Thoughts?
Knoll: I see your point however I was kinda thinking that they might be forced to play differently, perhaps holding back a bit. Anyways I still want to see if it works out that way. Nice sideboard btw how have the extripates been? I currently dont run any as I feel they dont change the game state enough however maybe I should. Have you not missed the extra grip ? Cudos on the top 8s.
EDIT: Did some testing and you guys are right it blows in this. My bad.
Bloodghast in here makes no sense.
If you're talking about adding win conditions that can be grabbed through Intuition and work well with the normal synergy of the Intuition/Loam engine, Gigapede and Worm Harvest are the cards you're looking for, not Bloodghast.
@ Speck : I like the extirpates expecially vs control matchups (standstill, randomish countertop ) since the longer the game goes the better their effect comes out... also, vs canadian thresh & aggroloam, that are getting some good t8 placements recently, they are quite cool.
@ Hanni: i like the idea of the harvest but...
1st. What would you remove from a list that is already tuned to work quite perfectly?
2nd. I feel that by adding W.A. i would just have one more card in the list of those that i don't want to see in my opening hand... and they are already quite enough tbh (witness, oracle, volrath, ruins, deeds ) :frown:
He was just saying that it was better than Bloodghast, since it (or Gigapede) can be fetched with Intuition and has synergy with other aspects of the deck. I don't see anything in the list you posted that you can really afford to cut for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoll
Has anyone considered Jace in ITF? I know Etched Oracle is easier to manipulate and setup, but it's like 2UUGBW - Target player draws 3 cards and is a beater. Jace is just a unaffected by Mr. Deeds.
Ok, I picked up the Deck and have a lot of fun with it (but I never struggled as much as now to learn how to play with a deck XD).
Anyways, can someone give me a little bit of help on the sideboarding?
I use the following and I think its the right call:
4 Extirpate
3 Krosan Grip
2 Life from the Loam
3 Hydroblast
3 Engeneered Plague
But I feel like I side out the wrong cards to often. Can someone give me a breakdown of what I can take out safely in some common matchups?