Except all the most 10 recent 12post lists on mtgpulse include candelabras...Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
Trolling?
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Except all the most 10 recent 12post lists on mtgpulse include candelabras...Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
Trolling?
I see your point. I personally fear discard much more than wasteland. Islands really are the key. It's rare for me to play a Cloudpost which I will rely on for basic spells. I wouldn't plan on seeing two needles, but the order I listed is the priority list, most often. I also run two, currently. Overall I still struggle with Jund, and I hope others will chime in on their ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by That nice guy
I didn't even know that site exsisted... wow, i'm cited with 2 builds in the first 12-post page! :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
It is basically the new/current morphling.de with more searchability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Davek
Also with Spirit/Brimalz printing and the foreseen DnT explosion to be had, I am re investigating the Rug Build.
Why red over black? Deluge, Golgari Charm, Thoughtsieze, Dread of Night seem more reliable against DnT/Elves in a color that has better combo hate. Plus there's already a black land in the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
The only two red cards I included are Bonfire and Fire//Ice. Bonfire has obvious various utility, and fire/ice can still pitch to force and cycle. Black cards rarely give advantage on their own sadly. Although if a few were unearthed I would certainly consider them. Abrupt decay is the best convincing argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHarding
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
2nd on the list
http://mtgpulse.com/event/15121#213347
Eh. Sure, but 20-30 man events, and his previous list, that he performed better with, ran candelabra. Trying to present candel-less builds as viable standards when they are by far the minority is a bit deceiving to say the least.Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
Hey guys,
Long time reader, first time poster.
First, thanks to all of you, especially to Rock Lee, for all the good job you've done with this deck.
Last week, a UGw post ramp list won a 23 player event in France. I know that's a really small event!
That was the list played:
LAnd (24)
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
3 Flooded strand
1 Misty rainforest
4 Tropical island
1 Tundra
3 Island
1 Karakas
1 Eye of ugin
Monsters 7
1 Emy
1 Kozy
1 Ula
4 primeval titan
Other Spell (29)
4 Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop rotation
4 Repeal
4 Force of Will
4 Show and Tell
3 couterbalance
1 Ponder
1 Candelabra
Side
4 Flusterstorm
2 Swan song
1 Venser
3 Terminus
1 Devastation tide
1 Tabernacle
1 Bojuka bog
1 Glacial chasm
1 Plaine
I'm wondering what you guys think of the inclusion of counterbalance in the deck? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that the card was already discussed in the topic.
I know it costs UU, which is not negligible.
In his report, the player wrote that he sided them out almost everytime, but he only played once against combo (Sneak show).
If you think that this could be an idea worth working on, what about replacing the maps by sylvan scrying, in order for the deck to have 2CMC spells?
Edit: I'm not discussing about the pros of splashing white, just asking about the pros and cons of playing counterbalance in the UG "classic" list.
Thank you for your comments and sorry if I made many grammar errors!:smile:
Hrm...with the rise of TNN decks, is it viable in a Bant TE build to run Path to Exile as your spot-removal, and Terminus for your mass removal needs?
Why path to exile over swords to plowshares?Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkenslight
Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.
If you want to use counterbalance, then you should play miracles. Otherwise, in the same matches you would keep counterbalance that might as well be an Ethersworn Canonist. Testing has found however that most of the time it was just better to mainboard Force of Will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Namaenashi
The problem with Sylvan Scrying is that it costs green mana. Colored mana is scarce. Expedition Map is just better.
Because, of most of the top-tier midrange decks, there are only about 2 that play more than one basic land - the Stoneblade decks can't afford to play basics. Hence, you play PtE, which reads 'exile target creature not named True-Name Nemesis.'Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtk3
Between this, candle question, and the mtgpulse I can't tell if all these dudes are trolling this thread..I can't handle it. Katy Perry (new song is excellent, btw) is more relevant than path in an eldrazi deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkenslight
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHarding
This deck really doesn't care if opponent is gaining life because with two attacks of emmy he will be dead with 0 permanents. Stp is strictly better here.
Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.
My argument is that, in a meta with few basic lands, Path is better than StP in most cases because of the fact that, in those matchups, you aren't giving your opponent a buffer against PrimeTime beats. And that would only be in a GUw list (which, i might add, is not the main list and is an offshoot).Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHarding
For the main list, it would be laughable.
I don't think you fully understand this deck. Primeval Titan isn't a win condition and rarely ever will be. You're playing Primeval Titan for the lands you get from it. I barely even remember that it deals 6 damage anymore. Path to Exile gives your opponent an advantage that is much worse than the life gain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkenslight
Primeval Titan isn't a win condition? LOL
Primeval Titan can win, but he is not for that. Primeval Titan fetches lands, those lands generate enough mana to find and/or cast Eldrazi. He's a condition that makes winning easier, but to be more accurate: Primeval Titan is not a finisher.Quote:
Originally Posted by HammafistRoob
I agree: while Prime can attack for lethal, most of the time it just reads
"4GG (or 2U): search your library for 2 land cards and put them into the battlefield tapped. Gain 6 life. Your opponent discard a card from his hand and taps a Plain he controls".
Which is often all you need to win the game in the following turns.
IDK black seems great with Abrupt decay main, and Side Duress and deluge/ dread of night for maverick/D&T
Anyway,
I was on the fence about Vensor until a buddy of mine used it in a way I thought was awesome. He cast Vens in response to Infernal Tutor, on a land, and therefore shut of the tutor. I cheered.
Anyway, I was wondering if others can share amazing lines with him and also was wondering what other matches he's good in. I liked him in the Abrupt decay meta, and I used him to win against a bloodmoon twice. Anything else you guys can think of. I sided him in instead of bog in a lot of matches as my "meh, this is better than bog card"
Prempt: I've never had him and Karakas win me a game. I thought it would have come up by now, but then again, I only side one and only ever sided two.
On another note, I've only ever used the repeal-Top trick 3 times, thought that vintage awesomeness would have come up more too.
So yea, Vensor, anyone have anything awesome to share to explain?
I can agree with him not being a finisher, but he definitely wins games, hence win condition. Obviously he hardly ever deals lethal damage but he gets you to your fundamental turn almost instantly. Also, there's no need to explain to me how the deck works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mockingbird
After loads of testing with Spirit of the Labrynth in various decks, and two fisted testing against the deck, I concluded that this deck is STILL the best deck, but requires some revamping.
This is the list I'm testing.
// Lands
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [LRW] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
// Spells
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [GP] Repeal
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [ON] Chain of Vapor
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [RLM] Glacial Chasm
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 4 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 [BOK] Disrupting Shoal
Ponder had to get dropped in lieu of less dead-to-spirit cards. Higher tutors to compensate, more lands since less ponders, and more removal that still can generate mana and draws with candelabra and top.
@ Rock Lee
How has Shoal been? I find your lack of 2/3-drops disturbing.
Why have you given up on Vensor?
And has chain of vapor really been good enough in testing?
I haven't used it but Disrupting Shoal is hardcast easier than Force of Will.Quote:
Originally Posted by That nice guy
Venser might as well just be another counter.
Going to 3 Needle has been enough for me, with the force of wills. From DnT players I talk to, few say they're going to be running the spirit. A 1-of in the SB type of significance.
I'm also curious about the shoal Rock Lee, I heard you talking about it thurs. My bet is that it's basically mental misstep- yeah?
Essentially yes, Mental Misstep. My previous logic of Gut Shot being used for DnT, Elves, and potentially delver gets upturned with chain of vapor, which comes in against two of those, and then just straight counters can come in against elves, most of which are free to allow board advancement.Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHarding
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Hey,
do you imply that the red is not necessary to fight the environment with D&T quite reprented?
Indeed, infact red proved to be rather poor. They are equipped to beat red at the moment, what with UWR delver everywhere and Punishing Jund. Bonfire is a chore to cast, and has to blow them out, when it cannot always. Chain allows you to draw/accelerate and THEN bounce something, all for the cost of 1, which is incredible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic Snake
That 2 slot is where the majority of my testing has been funneled. Disrupting Shoal is ok, I have still been testing Gut Shot intermittantly, although less so now, but oddly my favored current testing card in that slot is Commandeer.Quote:
Originally Posted by That nice guy
How is it mental misstep?! Doesn't it still cost 2 cards?Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHarding
More looking at the turn 0 interaction, most commonly hitting a 1 drop in the build. But that was obviously too good for legacy on its own, so it costs two cards for usQuote:
Originally Posted by Razorwynd
Chain of Vapor is pretty decent, but narrowly awesome. Early stall against elves - but bad late. Strong against DnT - if they don't have vial going. I'm interested in the lines ppl have found.
If you want a funny, sure fire way to hose DnT (and DnT alone, sadly) run Eladamri's Vineyard. I tested it, and wowee. I was close to playing it when RUG was king. So I guess that's my safety valve for now for that deck, but right now I only seem to lose to double revoker, the rest isn't SO bad.
Why running Chain of Vapor against Snap? It also allows you to accelerate. Are the 2 untapped lands required too late against elves? Personaly in this matchup I don't like bounce spells anyway, I prefer the Glacial Chasm + counterspells plan. What about you guys?
What about carpet of flowers? Against rug mostly.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk
Against rug yes Carpet is better. But right now that MU is so cake with the UG build, I hope to play it every round. Every MD card against them is gravy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maagler
I agree with you, but I still lose to elves often. I'd like to hear player'a board plans for this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey_Island
My side has been:
4 Force of Will
4 Swan Song
4 Flusterstorm
2 Cursed Totem/2 Gut Shot/1 Venser 1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Glacial Chasm
And I put in all 15, countering every non creature spell. Needling DRS or bounce creatures. And getting chasm.
Maybe, knowing that Elves is huge in the format right now, you should just main-deck chasm. Works for me, and I usually win 2 out of three against them.Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHarding
This is why I have been testing commandeer. to steal a NO or GSZ 6+ for a titan. Would gladly pay 3 cards for a titan on their turn into chasm.Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHarding
Too bad Crucible of Worlds isn't in the meta more, you could gift yourself access to lands while stopping waste recursion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Anything else you'd think to take? Plainswalkers? Helm of Obedience? Entreat the angels?
Well technically you can steal a loam... But I haven't found issue with waste recursion decks with 6 fetches, 2 islands, and the Chain of vapors as added don't-lose-to-Dark Depths protection. Also Chain of vapor provides a bad-crop rotate response if you have a top in play, draw a card, copy-sacrifice. And most wateland decks have nonland permanents.Quote:
Originally Posted by That nice guy
I do quite the same except I am already maindecking Chasm. I go: -4 Repeal, -2 Expedition Map, -2 Candelabra, -3 Ponder or (-1 Ponder, -2 Pithing Needle) if I see/suspect a Viridian Shaman, +4 FOW, +4 Swan Song, +3 Flusterstorm. If I have Crop in hand and they go the Natural Order (or GSZ for lethal) route, I let it resolves and crop for Chasm in response to the attack. Generally, my life is quite high at this moment. Also I have won several times on the back of a Show And Telled Eldrazi with counter backup (without counter I will never go for it because they can just Natural Order for lethal even with an Eldrazi on your board). The Glimpse route is more painful because they will find Viridian and/or Deathrite to annihilate your Needle and/or Chasm. Sometimes it is even too late to win via S&T -> Titan because the loss off Chasm is too important. Maybe in that case, saving Snap, Chain Of Vapor or Repeal for your own Titan can give the amount of mana and PVs to reverse the situation...Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHarding