Ruby Storm

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Originally Posted by Bosaapje

Not really yet, I'm also struggling with the correct SB. What is yours atm?

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Well i don't really have one, have been experimenting with porting the deck to vintage, currently 1-7 in leagues so you could say it does not work so well (although 5 of the games were with 12 card sideboard due to mtgo bug, but got refunded, lacking empty and pif in the board hurts), will be going back to legacy when i finish this last league.
The slots i'm sure about are
1 rite of flame
1 grapeshot
1 empty the warrens
1 past in flames
1 fiery confluence
1 hazoret's undying fury
1 by force
1 tendrils of agony
Then currently the rest is
1 surgical extraction
1 faerie macabre
2 flusterstorm
1 abrade
2 hope of ghirapur

But defense grid jumps in and out, more abrades, more flusterstorms, more surgicals. At first faerie macabre where just me not wanting to pay for a second surgical online, but then it won me a game no other card would have won vs reanimator. So i don't know. I want a shattering spree as well. Will play a 8man paper tournament this weekend were i know 95% of the meta, so will try to fight that even tho it will be 8 different decks.

What do you think of Hope of Ghirapur? Isn't it too slow and vulnerable. The thing about Defense Grid or Flusterstorm that I like is that it's doing something immediately. Sometimes you can slam it turn 3 and immediately go off, that's not with Ghirapur. It's slightly better late game because people can't do anything but still, I have my doubts.

Yeah, i'm not certain hope is worth a slot, i sometimes play grid, sometimes hope.
Pros for hope

1. more easily cast t1
2. Not spell piercable
3. can be played of ancient tomb t1 on the draw without dazefear
4. Works as a delayed time walk vs reanimator and other combo
5. Can make it more safe to pass the turn after a reforge

4 is actually the thing i like most, play it t1 on the draw and then sacrifice it t2 and win on t3. Reanimator and combo are some of the worst matchups imo.
Cons

1. Dies to creature removal
2. Blocked by vendillion clique, flipped delvers
3. No impact the turn it gets played
4. One shot
5. Can't protect a miracled reforge the soul

The problems i have with grid is that it can be played around by keeping 3 mana up and also that it is symmetrical (not that important). I do like that it has effect the turn it gets played unless the opponent has tons of mana.

going to try running some maindeck bolts again.

// 60 Maindeck
// 13 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Scroll Rack

// 10 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
2 Lightning Bolt

// 14 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
6 Mountain
4 Sandstone Needle

// 23 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Bonus Round
4 Act on Impulse
4 Reforge the Soul
1 Gamble
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury


// 15 Sideboard
// 6 Artifact
SB: 4 Defense Grid
SB: 2 Silent Gravestone

// 1 Instant
SB: 1 Abrade

// 8 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery


also might consider the full 4 bolts. if so will cut 1 scroll rack and 1 gamble. been pretty happy with gamble and scroll rack overall. (scroll rack more than gamble)

Someone mentioned steamkin I think the only value you would have with it is you would be able to go off with it on the same turn.

Thoughts on experimental frenzy or due to the randomness of playing from the top it would prevent us from combing

i like frenzy, but i don't like its interaction with burning wish and reforge the soul, to a lesser extent manamorphose.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JosefK

Yeah, i'm not certain hope is worth a slot, i sometimes play grid, sometimes hope.
Pros for hope

1. more easily cast t1
2. Not spell piercable
3. can be played of ancient tomb t1 on the draw without dazefear
4. Works as a delayed time walk vs reanimator and other combo
5. Can make it more safe to pass the turn after a reforge

4 is actually the thing i like most, play it t1 on the draw and then sacrifice it t2 and win on t3. Reanimator and combo are some of the worst matchups imo.
Cons

1. Dies to creature removal
2. Blocked by vendillion clique, flipped delvers
3. No impact the turn it gets played
4. One shot
5. Can't protect a miracled reforge the soul

The problems i have with grid is that it can be played around by keeping 3 mana up and also that it is symmetrical (not that important). I do like that it has effect the turn it gets played unless the opponent has tons of mana.

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I've never seen it as a delayed Time Walk against combo, that's quite nifty. That said, I still rather run Flusterstorm because you can bring it in proactively against discard.

I'm going to test Experimental Frenzy in the mono red list next time I'm going to test the control matchups. I feel like it's a great SB card in those matchups, even though it's not as great with Wish and PiF. I feel like it can give us a lot of extra winpercentage if it sticks against control/discard decks.

I really wish people would try out frenzy, i don't really have time. I think the ceiling is incredibly high, but uncertain about how low the floor is.

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Originally Posted by JosefK

I really wish people would try out frenzy, i don't really have time. I think the ceiling is incredibly high, but uncertain about how low the floor is.

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it sucks

i kind of feel like it sucks too. it wasn't good in goldfishing. it might be better in grindy games, but i think it's a bit challenging, and it sucks that it won't be very useful with burning wish.

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Originally Posted by [reptiLe]

it sucks

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Why do you think it sucks? Did you try it?

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Originally Posted by Bosaapje

Why do you think it sucks? Did you try it?

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It only took a couple of games to see how bad it is: all cantrips and tutors become pointless once it's in play, so you have to rely on your deck being stacked just right to be able to actually chain stuff, which means making enough mana to finally blow it up and be able to play the stuff in your hand, or have a non-tutor wincon on top of your deck; the only option would be to run less cantrips and tutors, but then it's harder to use it reliably, and land clusters hurt even more, plus the deck sucks even more when you don't find it.
Maybe with doomsday :P

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Originally Posted by [reptiLe]

It only took a couple of games to see how bad it is: all cantrips and tutors become pointless once it's in play, so you have to rely on your deck being stacked just right to be able to actually chain stuff, which means making enough mana to finally blow it up and be able to play the stuff in your hand, or have a non-tutor wincon on top of your deck; the only option would be to run less cantrips and tutors, but then it's harder to use it reliably, and land clusters hurt even more, plus the deck sucks even more when you don't find it.
Maybe with doomsday :P

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Fair enough, your points are valid. I'm still gonna test it though, because the card has such a high upside.

@Josef: A couple of posts back you talked about how I SB differently than you. Do you have SB plans? If so, could you share them?

I'm going to the FNM tonight with roughly the same list as I took last weekend, only -2 Mountain, +1 Volcanic +1 Sandstone Needle. I don't like the 4th Ancient Tomb in UR Storm but I do like an Ancient Tomb that makes RR. I'm also gonna play one Fiery Confluence over the Hull Breach. I'm also maybe gonna play the 4th Defense Grid but I'm not sure about that, maybe I'll cut them all and play Flusterstorms. Not sure yet.

@Bosaapje well, i have no sideboard plans, i mostly wing it :) What to bring in is kind of obvious, maybe the only exception is that i bring in surgical vs miracles and grixis control. It "counters" snapcaster, lets me see if the coast is clear, and can remove fow for safer reforging. I also almost always bring in fiery confluence so i have an out to surgical on burning wish. The hard part is what to board out. And i really have no plan for that :) I trim desperate rituals, bonus rounds, ponders and petals, sometimes a reforge and then i think to myself "but that's good in this matchup, well atleast now i can burning wish for it!". Usually i remove a past in flames as well, at least if i used it game 1 as i really hate sitting on 2 pif in hand when my opponent has leyline or crypt.
I'm currently testing 3 echoing truth in place of the graveyard hate and abrade. Not really sure i like it yet, chalice on 2 is a lot worse than chalice on 1 so i might be trying chain of vapor instead.
Also i noticed that the TES-hivemind started using Hope of Ghirapur, must be because of me! :)

Be sure to tell us how sandstone needle goes in UR, i like the card, but i dont like that i cant cantrip t1 from it.

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Originally Posted by JosefK

@Bosaapje well, i have no sideboard plans, i mostly wing it :) What to bring in is kind of obvious, maybe the only exception is that i bring in surgical vs miracles and grixis control. It "counters" snapcaster, lets me see if the coast is clear, and can remove fow for safer reforging. I also almost always bring in fiery confluence so i have an out to surgical on burning wish. The hard part is what to board out. And i really have no plan for that :) I trim desperate rituals, bonus rounds, ponders and petals, sometimes a reforge and then i think to myself "but that's good in this matchup, well atleast now i can burning wish for it!". Usually i remove a past in flames as well, at least if i used it game 1 as i really hate sitting on 2 pif in hand when my opponent has leyline or crypt.
I'm currently testing 3 echoing truth in place of the graveyard hate and abrade. Not really sure i like it yet, chalice on 2 is a lot worse than chalice on 1 so i might be trying chain of vapor instead.
Also i noticed that the TES-hivemind started using Hope of Ghirapur, must be because of me! :)

Be sure to tell us how sandstone needle goes in UR, i like the card, but i dont like that i cant cantrip t1 from it.

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Sounds like we both use the same tactic regarding sideboarding. I've also thought about Chain of Vapor/Echoing Truth and even Void Snare as bouncespells. I'm not yet convinced though, so let me know how it goes!

Sandstone Needle can't cantrip t1 indeed, but neither can the Mountain that I cut instead of it do, so I don't worry about that problem.

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Originally Posted by Bosaapje

Sandstone Needle can't cantrip t1 indeed, but neither can the Mountain that I cut instead of it do, so I don't worry about that problem.

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I'm thinking of a start hand with needle and volcanic and a ponder, no additional lands. How do you play that? Starting with ponder feels dangerous as your t2 could be weak. I think starting with needle is the correct play, but then you can't cantrip. Might not be a huge problem, I don't know really. If it were a tomb you could cantrip into the seething song you need to win t2. But testing is always better than theorizing :)

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Originally Posted by JosefK

I'm thinking of a start hand with needle and volcanic and a ponder, no additional lands. How do you play that? Starting with ponder feels dangerous as your t2 could be weak. I think starting with needle is the correct play, but then you can't cantrip. Might not be a huge problem, I don't know really. If it were a tomb you could cantrip into the seething song you need to win t2. But testing is always better than theorizing :)

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Fair enough, didn't think of that situation. Haven't had that problem tonight because I (of course) drew 0 Sandstone Needles all night long.. That said, I did go 3-1.

M1: Lands

G1 He presents a turn 2 Marit Lage, I instead combo turn 2 with Medallion into Rituals into Reforge the Soul. I had 12 storm, 50000 mana (roughly) and I drew into 5 lands, a Medallion and a Manamorphose which gives me another Desperate Ritual. Just what I need.

G2 He goes turn one Exploration into Ancient Tomb into Sphere of Resistance. I can't find enough mana to Wish into removal and I don't draw my Abrades. He can then Wasteland my Volcanic and it's lights out.

M2: Turbo Depths

G1 I win turn two with rituals into rituals into Reforge the Soul. This time it gives me more fuel to combo off with.

G2 Kind of the same but with a Medallion.

M3: Steel Stompy

G1 I win easily because he can only present Vault Skirges and Steel Overseer. His gameplan was waaay to fair against Storm. Tried to go off in turn 3 but I fizzled with Hazoret's Undying Fury (as a wish target). Had to retry it 2 turns later. I still dislike the card but it's the best we have I think.

G2 I have another turn 2 win (I love playing against non-blue decks!) but I do something stupid with my Brainstorm and I put the two cards back in the wrong order. This way I draw a Seething Song of my Manamorphose which must have been another Manamorphose so I could draw the Seething Song as my last card. I don't have enough mana to continue and I punt pretty hard.

G3 Things don't look good until I find enough mana to let me go off. I have a Medallion and he has a Chalice on one which stops my Rite of Flame. He also Wastelanded me which makes that I only have one Lotus Petal and a Desperate Ritual to start with. I thankfully have a Fiery Confluence in my hand, I make enough mana with Desperate Ritual, then Manamorphose to make enough mana for Fiery Confluence and blue for my Brainstorm that's stuck in my hand because of the Chalice. Chalice goes away, I draw another Lotus Petal and a Ritual and I can go off. Brainstorm is such an unfair card lol, Brainstorm into the nuts gave me the win, without it I would have died probably.

M4: Death and Taxes

G1 Quick turn 2 win on the play with turn one Medallion, turn 2 Seething Song -> Bonus Round -> Seething Song -> Manamorphose -> Reforge the Soul. I proceed to win. My opponent decides not to Wasteland my turn one Ancient Tomb so he can proceed to play Thalia. If he had done it I would have still been able to combo, but him not doing it made it a lot easier to go off.

G2 Can't really remember exactly but I had the luxury of being able to Wish for a Bonus Round and then to combo off with Reforge the Soul after setting it up turn one.


So yeah, I had another good run, just wanted to let you guys know. Drawing 8 cards and finding nothing can happen, is just luck. I also had the luck of playing against non-blue decks, sometimes it was closer to goldfishing than really playing Magic, which I also don't mind sometimes. I'm kind of tempted to run Overmaster but not because it's necessary, just to try it out.

been quiet a bit recently. was traveling for work.

did get to play once while i was in ny. went 2-2.

won vs:

dnt
aggro loam

lost to

uw stoneblade (didn't draw any grids games 2/3)
lands (got a little unlucky with AoI and had to double bonus round to kill with confluence. unfortunately i got punishing fired to death in resp. maybe jumped the gun and could have stalled a turn or two, but hoped i could get there sooner as i was afraid of the marit lage eot kind of stuff.)

regarding deck updates

testing a few ideas:

one, a little slower, but running jaya ballard for more threats against blue decks:

// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 9 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
1 Desperate Ritual

// 14 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
6 Mountain
4 Sandstone Needle

// 2 Planeswalker
2 Jaya Ballard

// 23 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Bonus Round
4 Act on Impulse
4 Reforge the Soul
2 Hazoret's Undying Fury


// 15 Sideboard
// 6 Artifact
SB: 4 Defense Grid
SB: 2 Silent Gravestone

// 1 Instant
SB: 1 Abrade

// 8 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery


another build which is kind of interesting:

// 60 Maindeck
// 8 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion

// 4 Enchantment
4 Pyromancer Ascension

// 12 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
4 Desperate Ritual

// 14 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
6 Mountain
4 Sandstone Needle

// 22 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Bonus Round
4 Act on Impulse
4 Reforge the Soul
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury


// 15 Sideboard
// 6 Artifact
SB: 4 Defense Grid
SB: 2 Silent Gravestone

// 1 Instant
SB: 1 Abrade

// 8 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery


we'll see how they go.

Do you still want to play 4 LEDs and 1 Desperate Ritual if you want to play Jaya Ballard? It's not that you need the LEDs per se.

Led is a better card than desperate ritual, especially with act on impulse.

it's also way better than desperate with burning wish, especially in multiples. (2 led vs 2 desperate ritual + burning wish). you need a ruby medallion for that to be better, or bonus round. this can be an investment of mana or turn.

(led is also better w/ burning wish if you are playing mizzix's mastery in the sb.)

barring the sb (could be off by a card or two on each of these builds):

// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 3 Creature
3 Simian Spirit Guide

// 8 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song

// 14 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
6 Mountain
4 Sandstone Needle

// 23 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Bonus Round
4 Act on Impulse
4 Reforge the Soul
2 Hazoret's Undying Fury


// 15 Sideboard
// 6 Artifact
SB: 4 Defense Grid
SB: 2 Silent Gravestone

// 1 Instant
SB: 1 Abrade

// 8 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery

ssg helps with the mana draws for opening hands.

Nevermind, I totally forgot the fact that you were playing AoI. Disregard my comment then :wink:

Hi all!


I saw Andrea play with this deck on YouTube and I loved it! I set up a deck for myself too and I'd like to know what you think of two cards for the sideboard: Apex to power and Mob Rule.
And finally, gamble would not be a good option to have on the main deck?

gamble can be good, it's up to you. i wrote about it a few times in the thread. just don't be shy about scrolling back a few pages. i'm not sure about the impact of a card like mob rule. i suspect it's not strong enough.

apex of power is cool, but i think it's a bit win more. i tried it a few times and wasn't super impressed.

I enjoyed playing with Gamble, MB and SB, tho I got rid of the SB Gamble because there are better things to do in my opinion. MB is still fine.

Mob Rule is cute but not good enough I'm afraid, there's rarely 20 power on the board to deal a one strike kill and you don't wanna spend so much mana and deal 5-10 damage if you can just win instead.

Apex of Power is good but, like mistercakes says, a bit much of a winmore. Even though it's just one slot, it's not necessary. Same as Goblin War Strike in my opinion.

Running it back! Playing in FNM tonight with the following:

MD

3 tombs
4 fetches
6 mtns

4 petals
3 rubies
2 helms

3 rites
3 bonus
4 faithless looting
4 desp rit
4 seething song
4 manamorphose
4 act on impulse
4 wish
2 PIF
2 reforge
2 mizzix's mastery
1 tendrils

SB

1 apex of power-long hair dont care win most make opponents despair
1 mizzix
1 pif
1 reforge
1 rite
1 bonus
1 tendrils
1 whats the free red sorcery 2 to everyone and everything? Cave-In thats it
3 defense grid
1 abrade
1 empty the warrens
1 slaughter games
1 i forgot. oh by force



i think bonus round may be too much. it feels like additional rubies to me in gold fishing, but rubies are good, so chances are i need to drop a bonus plus a ruby. We'll see how i do tonight, then tomorrow at the local monthly thing. i'll post back on monday.

best of luck!

So Mengucci posted this and it reminded me of the deck lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXq7muQfyHA

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bosaapje

So Mengucci posted this and it reminded me of the deck lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXq7muQfyHA

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the best part is at the 50 minute mark.

Yeah, if I remember correctly I had a 1 lander that only needed one more mana to go off, so when he started with rite of flame it felt kinda good :) our first game I think really showcased how bad frenzy are in a deck that contains lands. 4 or 5 turns to win, totally undisrupted...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JosefK

Yeah, if I remember correctly I had a 1 lander that only needed one more mana to go off, so when he started with rite of flame it felt kinda good :) our first game I think really showcased how bad frenzy are in a deck that contains lands. 4 or 5 turns to win, totally undisrupted...

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Yes, this video showed that I'm not going to play with Frenzy in Ruby Storm.

There's no legacy scene where I am so I don't get to play often, but I went to a judge conference over the weekend and got a couple of games in. Won both match ups easily against Turbo Dark Depths and Lands. Nowhere near enough games for proper statistics and not particularly varied opponents, but this list felt pretty consistent:

Main:
4 Act on Impulse
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Bonus Round
4 Burning Wish
3 Desperate Ritual
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
2 Helm of Awakening
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Lotus Petal
4 Manamorphose
7 Mountain
3 Past in Flames
1 Reforge the Soul
3 Rite of Flame
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Sandstone Needle
4 Seething Song
3 Tormenting Voice

Sideboard:
1 Banefire
1 By Force
3 Defense Grid
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
1 Past in Flames
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Rite of Flame
1 Shattering Spree
2 Silent Gravestone
1 Tendrils of Agony

I think the best way to play this deck is to not care at all what your opponent's doing and just keep jamming spells. I got hit by Thoughtseize twice and a Duress in one game and still stormed off the turn after while a sad Marit Lage looked on.

Also with Bonus Round now in the mix I no longer feel like I'm missing out by not having Lion's Eye Diamond. Doubling up Desperate Ritual is nice.

do you have to discard for each copy of tormenting voice? i want to say yes, but am not 100% sure.

You do not. You discard as part of the cost and, as with mana costs, you pay the cost once to put it on the stack then the spell is copied.

hm okay. then i probably need to test that and cathartic reunion a little bit more. even discarding 2, drawing 6 for 1R or R is pretty dumb.

It is. I prefer Tormenting Voice in theory because I'm often discarding stuff like Lightning Bolt or Burning Wish and I don't think I'd consistently be able to find two cards I'm happy to discard to Cathartic Reunion when I need to cast it. I haven't really tested with it though to be fair. I don't know how well either will play with Lion's Eye Diamond but I've been very impressed with Tormenting Voice in this build.

I went 0-3 drop de to stomache ache.

Deck felt so much worse without LED's but there are plenty of ways to do it. Probably lost more to rust and keeping hands I shouldn't more than not having LED's.

I didn't like bonus round though. It actually felt like win-more unnecessary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

do you have to discard for each copy of tormenting voice? i want to say yes, but am not 100% sure.

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You need discard one card to cast the Tormenting Voice, because it is a additional cost.

"You must discard exactly one card to cast Tormenting Voice; you can’t cast it without discarding a card, and you can’t discard additional cards."

So, with 2 Bonus Round in the stack (virtually 3, in fact, because the second has one copy), you need discard 3 cards, and draw 6.

Well it's not being cast.

Should be the same reason you can cast copies under trinisphere/thalia/thorn without the tax.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

Well it's not being cast.

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exactly, no additional discards:

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...me=Bonus+Round
"08/06/2018 The controller of the copy can’t choose to pay any additional costs for the copy. However, effects based on any additional costs that were paid for the original spell are copied as though those same costs were paid for the copy too."

So, for instance, a copy of a spliced desperate will be spliced as well, but you won't have to discard additional cards to tormenting voice or pirate's pillage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [reptiLe]

exactly, no additional discards:

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...me=Bonus+Round
"08/06/2018 The controller of the copy can’t choose to pay any additional costs for the copy. However, effects based on any additional costs that were paid for the original spell are copied as though those same costs were paid for the copy too."

So, for instance, a copy of a spliced desperate will be spliced as well, but you won't have to discard additional cards to tormenting voice or pirate's pillage.

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Oh, ty for the explanation. Sorry guys, I was thinking that Bonus Round counts as cast. Sorry about that.
So, Tormenting Voice could be a nice card for the deck! Lol