[Deck] Merfolk

In the combo matchup it's basically just a 2/1 for 2 that draws you a card, and there are times in the late game where you draw one and it costs 5, which is pretty unacceptable against a combo deck. The only things I'm spending 2 mana on are Lord effects and oppressive disruption. I cut the True-Name Nemesis and Silvergills for graveyard hate, Ethersworn Canonist and the Envelop. At least I do in the ANT matchup; each combo matchup has to be treated differently, clearly. But the key to beating combo with creatures is the same as it's been in a fish deck for a very long time: the creature either needs to be very good at killing the opponent (Lords) or it needs to be very disruptive (hate bears and Cursecatchers). There's just no room in the deck for a 2-power creature for 2 mana that doesn't disrupt the opponent. At that point in the game I'd rather cast a Cursecatcher and leave up Spell Pierce/Brainstorm, or drop a Rest in Peace to cut off an angle of attack for them, or lay a Standstill, or attack with a Mutavault. Sometimes it takes an extra turn or two compared to if I were just dropping Lords, but the difference is that I have stifling control over the game over those two turns rather than just leaving them dead next turn but only having a Force of Will to protect myself. Silvergill is the last guy I cut, but I'm not against cutting all of them in the right matchup. For instance, TES is less graveyard-reliant, so I may leave a Silvergill or two in and only bring in one Rest in Peace, or something like that. TNN is clearly the first cut.

I've also run as few as three Mutavault before and have had no serious issue with being unable to close out the game. It seems rather silly to me in a deck that has such as strong preference for blue-producing lands to complicate the issue by jamming even more lands into the deck that can't produce blue and only cover an angle of attack that the deck is already flush with (creatures). If for whatever reason I felt that I needed to cut down to 20 lands, the 4th Mutavault would be the first thing to go.

The probability of drawing 2 lords in a game if you only play 8 is about 35% by turn 4 (I guess you do see more cards with brainstorm but you won't go much higher than 45%). And that is almost the only scenario where they really advantageously compare to a silvergill that cycles.

Your reasoning regarding your sideboard plan is interesting but I do not think I am willing to sacrifice the consistency of monoU for white sideboard cards.

The probability to draw a mutavault by turn 6 (and it might be too late) is 60% if you run 4, I still think that it is a bit low but if it works for you that is good.

The main difference is that instead of drawing Silvergill Adept, I'm drawing Ethersworn Canonist or Rest in Peace. A combo opponent can for the most part ignore Silvergill Adept up until it's going to kill him, where as the white cards either destroy his ability to function or demand an answer if he's going to beat me. For instance, against Elves, if I have an Ethersworn Canonist in play, not only can he not go off with Glimpse, his ability to make mana is severely hampered and he can't even effectively search for answers to Canonist without cycling through his deck with Visionary. He can't develop his board position very quickly which blunts the effectiveness of Craterhoof Behemoth and I'm able to effectively play two creatures a turn that are each bigger than his and getting bigger every turn. Compare that to what Silvergill Adept on his own does, and that's: draws a card and trades with the opponent's least valuable 1/1. I'm definitely not saying that's a bad thing or something I don't want in some matchups, but the combo matchup has never been about attrition which is what Silvergill Adept is best at. The only creatures that never get cut are the Lords because they are the backbone of the deck. There's just not enough time in a compressed game (which combo generates) to be spending mana on a creature that's inefficient, because there's the distinct possibility that I'll get to my second turn, tap two mana for a Silvergill Adept, and then get killed by my opponent the next turn.

The main thing is that I'd never want to have an army of Silvergill + Mutavault. That does nothing to stop a combo opponent, and much worse, it eats up my mana every turn.

My point was that lords are only good in multiples against combo and therefore since it does not happen very frequently if you only play 8, they are not much better than silvergills...
Playing 2 canonists vs. 2 chalices is not very different facing elves...and if you plan on beating elves consistently with merfolk might I suggest switching to UWR miracles? (Just kidding)

Well in any case you seem to always diverge from the questions to find stable grounds where your strategy works, which is human but does not help our discussion. Keep posting good results with your deck and people will follow you.

Cheers

I don't think it's true that Lords are only good against combo in multiples; they also power up all of the rest of your creatures, which Silvergill Adept most certainly does not do. Lord + Cursecatcher + Mutavault is way different than Silvergill + Cursecatcher + Mutavault.

My point is that I don't really want to be spending the mana (and more importantly, turn) to cast a Silvergill Adept against a combo player. The only situations where I'd willingly spend all that mana on turn 2 is for a Lord because it shortens the game drastically, whereas a Silvergill does not. It's not the worst card in the deck against combo, but it's not very far up the list. I'd much rather pass the turn with the ability to counter multiple spells than make the 2 drop. I'd much much rather split the difference and play a Cursecatcher and pass. I'd even be fine with dropping a Standstill there, particularly if I lead on an Aether Vial, though it would definitely not be my first choice. Playing a Silvergill is a big signal to a combo player that a) you didn't have anything else to do and b) they don't need to worry about Spell Pierce or Flusterstorm or Swan Song or any number of other cards that you would otherwise be able to cast.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by benthetenor

I don't think it's true that Lords are only good against combo in multiples; they also power up all of the rest of your creatures, which Silvergill Adept most certainly does not do. Lord + Cursecatcher + Mutavault is way different than Silvergill + Cursecatcher + Mutavault.

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Your scenario seems to be 7 vs 5+a card but in fact it is (let's say we mull appropriately post board vs. combo and we hold force in hand in both cases), and this is only trying to find the best clock:
Turn 1: blue land, cursecatcher
Turn 2: blue land, lord, attack for 2
Turn 3: mutavault, attack for 4, can hold counter and you can play standstill if you have it
Turn 4: attack with all for 7 (cannot play standstill unless 4th land)
Vs.
Turn 1: blue land, cursecatcher
Turn 2: mutavault, silvergill+1 card, attack for 1
Turn 3: blue land, attack for 5, can hold spell pierce or swan song
Turn 4: attack for 5 only instead of 7, unless extra card mattered (could be a goodie)...not far off

There is not much difference because the combo deck will try to go off on turn 4 or before in any case scenario and they will go through at least one counter. Why would they care about standstill? Only because you could draw an extra force and another blue card? Really? Maybe but the probability is low for seeing 2 forces... If you play standstill you have no clock, if you play your lord your clock is good but you will see less cards. I'm thinking the match-up still comes down to: do you have force and another counter when they try to go off...

In that scenario, there's the perfect chance to slip a Standstill in there on turn 3 and still being able to hold up Spell Pierce, or to drop another Cursecatcher, or really to do anything other than just play a Mutavault and attack for 4. That makes an awful lot of difference. But it's all just an example. In my experience over hundreds of test games, leaving in Lords and cutting Silvergill Adepts has lead to more wins than the reverse because Lord of Atlantis always represents more damage per turn than Silvergill Adept ever can, and cutting a turn off of the game is equivalent to drawing an extra card. It's also probably not mattered as much to me since I play both Standstill and Brainstorm, so having multiple counters in my hand when the combo player goes off is much more common for me, which, again, are all reasons why I'd rather play Standstill over just some more guys.

Yeah I edited when I saw the turn 3 standstill. I guess you do improve your matchup against combo but you lessen your ability to snowball with more dudes which is important vs. the rest of the field. Are combo players that afraid of standstill?
And fwiw I did not advocate for cutting lords in favor of silvergills which is what you made it look like, I was merely trying to show that they are not that different. I'd rather have a silvergill and a lord rather than a standstill and a lord, which is closer to the actual difference between our strategies than the previous hypothetical scenario.

I've found that players, even good players, are not good at playing against Standstill anymore. They really, really don't want to give you three free cards and so will often just not do anything until it's way too late. Usually the right play is to break it right away and then move on with your life, but no one seems to do this. But either way, it's not just having more cards, it's the fact that it's more blue cards in hand to pitch to FOW which can often be an issue, or the fact that playing the way you do in the first scenario instead of the second one leaves them dead on board next turn instead of just falling to 2 life. It also gets them to 7 life instead of 9 on the fourth turn which definitely matters against Ad Nauseam. All told, I'd much rather lead off on Aether Vial than anything else, as going Vial - Lord + Cursecatcher - Standstill + Mutavault + whatever 2 drop you have in hand is by far the most effective use of mana and the fastest clock, and the biggest thing going for a version of Merfolk with Vials is that it can explode onto the board like that and is ultimately faster, but in no scenarios do I actively WANT to be casting Silvergill. It's fine, and I wouldn't be really upset if I cast it, it's just that there are better options in the sideboard that are more impactful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by benthetenor

If you really think that stopping creatures with counterspells is a good plan, you have not been playing this game for very long. To clarify, that is not attitude. That has been a fact since Kird Ape was squaring off against Counterspell. I could go through and show you why that's a silly thing to be worried about, but the truth is if you don't understand how to beat counterspells with creatures I'm not sure what good my words are going to be to you. If you want to take that as condescension, I guess there's nothing I can do about it.

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I've build, if I may say, a good merfolk deck in standard which took me to my first World Championships in Memphis. Since then, the only decks I play are blue creatures + disruption (Lord of Atlantis, Delver, Snapcaster, Geist, Grand Architect, Exarch, Pestermite, Thassa and company), whatever the format. Delver took me to my second World Championships in Indianapolis where we finished fifth out of 71 countries. That was a lot of fun. I saw the legendary Bonfire of the Damned topdeck in person. Also fun. Just like the last 13 years I played this beautiful game.
I will never teach anyone how to play Elves, Pox, UW control, Zoo, Doomsday or any other deck which doesn't play at least 10 blue creatures, but I have won so many duals, fetches and money with merfolk that I consider myself very comfortable with it and don't have any problem with your attitude or condenscending tone.
If anything I say appears without logic to you, that's fine by me. English is not my first language and I have problems expressing my thoughts.
I will continue to question everyone's builds in hope that one day someone will win something relevant. If you are that someone, I will try to be among the first to congratulate you.

I wasn't going to comment anything else about your deck but then I saw "I usually don't have Silvergill in my deck post-board against combo." :eek::confused:
I guess I can see it because you play so few creatures, but "normal" merfolk decks should never do that stunt.

Hi!

I am updating some of my older Legacy lists. I need some help and suggestions to a Merfolk deck (see below). I guess there should be True-Name Nemesis in there (4x?), I would like to keep Kira, Great Glass-Spinner in the deck (sideboard). Cavern of Souls should probably be in it. Maybe Phantasmal Image main deck instead of in the sideboard? Multiple Swan Song in the sideboard? Any help will be highly appreciated. Many thanks in advance!

Creature [22]
2 Coralhelm Commander
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Silvergill Adept

Instant [11]
3 Daze
2 Dismember
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce

Artifact [4]
4 Æther Vial

Enchantment [3]
3 Standstill

Land [20]
12 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
60 cards

Sideboard:
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Spell Pierce
4 Submerge
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Umezawa's Jitte
15 cards

Quote:

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Originally Posted by starchild

Creature [22]

Hi!

I am updating some of my older Legacy lists. I need some help and suggestions to a Merfolk deck (see below). I guess there should be True-Name Nemesis in there (4x?), I would like to keep Kira, Great Glass-Spinner in the deck (sideboard). Cavern of Souls should probably be in it. Maybe Phantasmal Image main deck instead of in the sideboard? Multiple Swan Song in the sideboard? Any help will be highly appreciated. Many thanks in advance!

2 Coralhelm Commander
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Silvergill Adept

Instant [11]
3 Daze
2 Dismember
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce

Artifact [4]
4 Æther Vial

Enchantment [3]
3 Standstill

Land [20]
12 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
60 cards

Sideboard:
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Spell Pierce
4 Submerge
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Umezawa's Jitte
15 cards

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Hey. Standstill isn't used as often anymore. Some lists pack it, some don't. It's totally a matter of play style.

The new kid on the block seems to be Chalice of the Void, substituting Daze. Chalice blanks spot-removal, which is very relevant on this deck, that needs to swarm with creatures as a plan A. Moreover, Chalice of the Void is a powerhouse against every Legacy deck, and can win games by its own. It also is an Abrupt Decay magnet, which can save your lords and AEther Vial from removal. Moreover, Daze isn't that awesome when you cut Wasteland for Cavern of Souls.

Submerge isn't necessary as a 4-of anymore, GW Maverick isn't putting numbers, so Submerge only targets Elves, Deathrite Shaman, Delvers and Goyfs nowdays. 2~3 should be enough.

The new permanent Graveyard Hate now is Grafdigger's Cage. Tormod's Crypt and Relic of Progenitus are also used as second option, but Grafdigger's Cage is relevant against Elves, cutting them off 2 win conditions (Green Sun's Zenith and Natural Order). The only downside of Cage is that it doesn't shrink Goyf.

Coralhelm Commander is outdated. True-Name Nemesis is the new beater and staller. It's a Progenitus at 3CMC, and can be pumped by lords, must-have. Play it as a 4-of. Beware that people are packing a lot of hate against this card, so try not to run into Golgari Charm and Toxic Deluge without permission.

Swan Song is a good hard counter against Sneak and Show, Storm and Miracles. We don't really care about the 2/2 creature. We can land-walk past them with ease. This card is prefered over Spell Pierce, as soft counters can be played around. The only downside of Swan Song is that it can't hit Planeswalkers, such as Liliana and Jace.

Phantasmal Image was very good in this deck, and now it's better. By copying True-Name Nemesis, it essencially blanks its downside of having to be sacrificed when targeted. Be aware that you can't equip it with Umezawa's Jitte, that silly mistake has cost a game once.

This is my latest list, that tries to mix both Standstill and Chalice of the Void:

Lands [20]
11 Island
1 Mishra's Factory
4 Mutavault
4 Cavern of Souls

Creatures [23]
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 True-Name Nemesis
3 Phantasmal Image

Spells [17]
4 AEther Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Standstill
2 Dismember

Sideboard [15]
3 Swan Song
3 Submerge
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
1 Spell Pierce
1 Dismember

Take a look at Fanatic's list, as he's probably the most succesful player in this thread recently. White Splash isn't common, but if you feel you need Swords to Plowshares and Rest in Peace in your meta, it can also be a fine choice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

Hey. Standstill isn't used as often anymore. Some lists pack it, some don't. It's totally a matter of play style.

The new kid on the block seems to be Chalice of the Void, substituting Daze. Chalice blanks spot-removal, which is very relevant on this deck, that needs to swarm with creatures as a plan A. Moreover, Chalice of the Void is a powerhouse against every Legacy deck, and can win games by its own. It also is an Abrupt Decay magnet, which can save your lords and AEther Vial from removal. Moreover, Daze isn't that awesome when you cut Wasteland for Cavern of Souls.

Submerge isn't necessary as a 4-of anymore, GW Maverick isn't putting numbers, so Submerge only targets Elves, Deathrite Shaman, Delvers and Goyfs nowdays. 2~3 should be enough.

The new permanent Graveyard Hate now is Grafdigger's Cage. Tormod's Crypt and Relic of Progenitus are also used as second option, but Grafdigger's Cage is relevant against Elves, cutting them off 2 win conditions (Green Sun's Zenith and Natural Order). The only downside of Cage is that it doesn't shrink Goyf.

Coralhelm Commander is outdated. True-Name Nemesis is the new beater and staller. It's a Progenitus at 3CMC, and can be pumped by lords, must-have. Play it as a 4-of. Beware that people are packing a lot of hate against this card, so try not to run into Golgari Charm and Toxic Deluge without permission.

Swan Song is a good hard counter against Sneak and Show, Storm and Miracles. We don't really care about the 2/2 creature. We can land-walk past them with ease. This card is prefered over Spell Pierce, as soft counters can be played around. The only downside of Swan Song is that it can't hit Planeswalkers, such as Liliana and Jace.

Phantasmal Image was very good in this deck, and now it's better. By copying True-Name Nemesis, it essencially blanks its downside of having to be sacrificed when targeted. Be aware that you can't equip it with Umezawa's Jitte, that silly mistake has cost a game once.

This is my latest list, that tries to mix both Standstill and Chalice of the Void:

Lands [20]
11 Island
1 Mishra's Factory
4 Mutavault
4 Cavern of Souls

Creatures [23]
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 True-Name Nemesis
3 Phantasmal Image

Spells [17]
4 AEther Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Standstill
2 Dismember

Sideboard [15]
3 Swan Song
3 Submerge
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
1 Spell Pierce
1 Dismember

Take a look at Fanatic's list, as he's probably the most succesful player in this thread recently. White Splash isn't common, but if you feel you need Swords to Plowshares and Rest in Peace in your meta, it can also be a fine choice.

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Thank you so much for taking your time and give me such a detailed response. I like the Chalice of the Void mainboard, thus cutting Daze...also Wasteland goes then as it is not so relevant without Daze, making room for Cavern of Souls. Not so important with Kira in the sideboard as Chalice of the Void mainboard takes care of the problems with spot removal and Abrup Decay's vs the Lords. Your description of the Swan Song was very good and I will use it. Phantasmal Image main is also good I see, thanks a lot for the warning about the Jitte! ;) I like your deck a lot, looks really nice. Many thanks again :)

Hi there,

I asked my friend who play Merfolks several years to create for me some sideboarding guide. He agreed to present it here. Maybe some people will be interested and we can discuss what can be changed. It is worth to mention that this veriosn is tunned for local meta with not many (or even none) combo decks (ANT, TES etc.).

THE DECKLIST

Quote:

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12 Island
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Mutavault
3 Mishra’s Factory
4 Aether Vial

4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 True-Name Nemesis
4 Phantasmal Image
2 Merrow Reejerey
1 Vendillion Clique
1 Sygg, River Cutthroat

4 Force of Will
3 Daze

Sideboard:
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
1 Misdirection
1 Sower of Temptation
2 Swan Song
3 Cursed Toten
2 Grafdigger's Cage

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SIDEBOARD GUIDE

1) U/Wr Miracles

Quote:

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IN:
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Swan Song

OUT:
4 Cursecatcher
2 Merrow Reejerey

Comment:
Even though Cursecatchers are good they do not generate enough tempo. The longer the game last the more like we are going to loose. It is weird to add chalice and spell for 1 mana but they are both good.

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RUG Delver

Quote:

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IN:
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
1 Sower
1 Misdirection

OUT:
4 Force of Will
2 Merrow Rejerey
2 Cursecatcher
(on the draw instead of one Cursecatcher and Rejerey take out 2 Daze)

Comment:
None.

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BUG Delver

Quote:

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As before.

Comment:
CotV is weaker against BUG that against RUG however it is still worth bringing in.

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Sneak & Show

Quote:

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IN:
+1 Sower
+2 Swan Song
+1 Misdirection

OUT:
1 Sygg
1 TNN
2 Rejerey

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Death & Taxes

Quote:

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IN:
1 Sower
2 Dismember
3 Cursed Totem

OUT:
4 Cursecatcher
1 Sygg
1 Vendilion

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Elves

Quote:

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IN:
3 Cursed Totem
2 Grafdigger's Cage
4 CotV
2 Dismember

OUT:
4 Cursecatcher
1 Sygg
2 Reejerey
4 Aether Vial

Comment:
This matchup is almost unwinable pre board. Post board it is good to muligan to see at least one piece of hate.

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Dredge

Quote:

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IN:
2 Grafdigger's Cage

OUT:
2 Aether Vial

Comment:
Not much here. The best thing to do is to play Cursecatcher / Cage game on the first turn.

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Reanimator

Quote:

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IN:
2 Cage
2 Swan Song
1 Sower

OUT:
2 Rejerey
1 Sygg
2 TNN

Comment:
Vials are not efficient here but instant speed Phantasmal Image copying Grislebrand is great.

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JUND

Quote:

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IN:
2 Dismember
1 Sower

OUT:
3 Aether Vial

Comment:
Vials create card disadvantage that is why they are redundant. Some people take out FoWs but it is good to counter Lili.

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Mono Black Control

Quote:

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IN:
1 Misdirection
1 Sower
2 Swan Song

OUT:
4 Aether Vial

Comment:
Cursecatcher and Daze are MVPs here. Vial's once again create card disadvantage and are not good against discard spells.

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Merfolks

Quote:

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IN:
2 Dismemeber
1 Sower

OUT:
3 Lord of Atlantis

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Control BUG's with creatures

Quote:

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IN:
2 Dismember
1 Misdirection
1 Sower

OUT:
4 Aether Vial

Comment:
Midirections is good against Hymn's and Decays. Dismember are nice addition to fight Goyfs / Tombstalkers. Vial's are not good 'cause they don't attack :)

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UWR Delver

Quote:

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IN:
4 CotV
1 Misdirection
2 Dismember

OUT:
4 Force of Will
3 Aether Vial

Comment:
Being on the play we can leave two more Vials (take out 2 Rejerey) cause Vial + Daze is very welcomed here

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Burn

Quote:

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IN:
4 CotV
1 Misdirection

OUT:
2 rejerey
3 Force of Will

Comment:
If they are playing with Grim Lavamancer we take out Vials and leave FoWs. In this matchup Vials let us to generate tempo (playing creatures) while atacking with Mutavaults and Mishra's.

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ANT / TES

Quote:

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IN:
4 CotV
2 Swan Song

OUT:
2 Rejerey
4 TNN

Comments:
Against ANT sometimes it is good to muligan to see CotV. Against TES CotV for x=0 is better than against ANT.

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Nic Fit

Quote:

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IN:
2 Swan Song
2 Grafdigger's Cage

OUT:
2 Rejerey
2 Cursecatcher

Comments:
It is still bad matchup. Deed whipes everything. And the density of their threats is very good.

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That's it :) Translated directly from polish I hope that my english is not that bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

This is my latest list, that tries to mix both Standstill and Chalice of the Void:

Lands [20]
11 Island
1 Mishra's Factory
4 Mutavault
4 Cavern of Souls

Creatures [23]
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 True-Name Nemesis
3 Phantasmal Image

Spells [17]
4 AEther Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Standstill
2 Dismember

Take a look at Fanatic's list, as he's probably the most succesful player in this thread recently.

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I never said that :smile:

Also, I like your hybrid. You are going from turn one Vial into brutal turn two play (Chalice or Standstill). The best thing are those 2 Dismembers which also make excellent turn one play into those mentioned on turn 2. I love redundancy.
The only change I would make is removing one Chalice from the main into side and filling that with land. Drawing too much Chalices could be disastrous, expecially if the matchup is not correct.
With 5 manlands you could use land nr. 21 for activation, and Chalice and Standstill really require to be played sooner rather than later. Regular version could live with only one land + Vial.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FANAttIC

I never said that :smile:

Also, I like your hybrid. You are going from turn one Vial into brutal turn two play (Chalice or Standstill). The best thing are those 2 Dismembers which also make excellent turn one play into those mentioned on turn 2. I love redundancy.
The only change I would make is removing one Chalice from the main into side and filling that with land. Drawing too much Chalices could be disastrous, expecially if the matchup is not correct.
With 5 manlands you could use land nr. 21 for activation, and Chalice and Standstill really require to be played sooner rather than later. Regular version could live with only one land + Vial.

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Hi FANAttic :) What do you suggest the deck to look like if you would have played it? Or how should the current Merfolk deck, best possible (fighting in a legacy enviroment with most of decks represented) look like?

My deck is oblsolete I understand:

Creature [22]
2 Coralhelm Commander
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Silvergill Adept

Instant [11]
3 Daze
2 Dismember
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce

Artifact [4]
4 Æther Vial

Enchantment [3]
3 Standstill

Land [20]
12 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
60 cards

Sideboard:
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Spell Pierce
4 Submerge
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Umezawa's Jitte
15 cards

Vandalize deck looks nice and strong, but you recommend a small tweak (Chalice of the Void numbers main/sb):

Lands [20]
11 Island
1 Mishra's Factory
4 Mutavault
4 Cavern of Souls

Creatures [23]
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 True-Name Nemesis
3 Phantasmal Image

Spells [17]
4 AEther Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Standstill
2 Dismember

Sideboard [15]
3 Swan Song
3 Submerge
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
1 Spell Pierce
1 Dismember

Please post a deck suggestion FANAttIC, I will highly appreciate that! Many thanks in advance! :)

Hi friend! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FANAttIC

12 Island
4 Mutavault
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Wasteland

4 Æther Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte

3 Cursecatcher
2 Phantasmal Image
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Lord of Atlantis
3 Merrow Reejerey
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique

4 Force of Will
2 Daze
2 Spell Pierce

//Sideboard
SB: 2 Swan Song
SB: 3 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Dismember
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Submerge
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Hydroblast

The sideboard is completely not relevant. It was based on expected meta for the last tournament.
It would be changed for unknown metagame.
But I am satisfied with maindeck. The numbers are not aesthetically pleasing but it worked like it should.

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My main is still the same. It works somehow. I won the last legacy tournament so nothing in the main will change.
Too bad there are no immediate tournaments in the future, all those prerelease, release, game day, modern champs, standard trials c*ap is postponing my fun.
I was commenting on Vandalize's deck. His build is awesome in crushing Delver decks and attrition wars. Mine is geared more toward options, battling Miracles, Show&Tell and combo, trying to outplay my opponent who probably doesn't know my decklist. There are many paths you could take your decklist, it depends on your style. All I know for now is that this would be my deck in the next GP, BoM, Ovino or any other relevant tournament. Subjective opinion of course, but since we have no winning decklist to comment on, this is all I have.

The deck was posted on page 357. There are answers to questions after that if you are still interested (after seeing the abomination :wink: ).

@Fannatic.
How do you best side in when using both Vial and Chalice? What do you take out and leave in in those matchups? Also, with Force, how do you deal with having so many non-blue artfacts in? Almost makes you want to put in a Waterfront Bouncer to pitch the extras. I have been genarlly dissatisfied with both the Vial and Chalice versions. They each have thier advantages and disadvantages, and I wonder if incorporating them together can work, because it seems if you don't get them down in the right order you can be holding a lot of nothing. But I'd be intetested in seeing how it works. I'd be willing to try it if I could trust the lines of play. Also how it could work with Swan Song rather than Flusterstorm as one might do with Chalice.

Hell, I've experimented with using Lotus Petal rather than Vial with Chalice for especially explosive beatdown starts, even Dazing with Cavern for mana ramps, but that plays so linearly sometimes. In those I use three Tidal Warriors rather than Cosi's Trickster, or rather two Tidal Warriors and one Trickster. It's not bad at all, it can put a hurting rather quickly. But for a tourney I would rather lean to something like Fannatic's deck, so I'm just curious how to side properly to use them together.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FANAttIC

Hi friend! :)


My main is still the same. It works somehow. I won the last legacy tournament so nothing in the main will change.
Too bad there are no immediate tournaments in the future, all those prerelease, release, game day, modern champs, standard trials c*ap is postponing my fun.
I was commenting on Vandalize's deck. His build is awesome in crushing Delver decks and attrition wars. Mine is geared more toward options, battling Miracles, Show&Tell and combo, trying to outplay my opponent who probably doesn't know my decklist. There are many paths you could take your decklist, it depends on your style. All I know for now is that this would be my deck in the next GP, BoM, Ovino or any other relevant tournament. Subjective opinion of course, but since we have no winning decklist to comment on, this is all I have.

The deck was posted on page 357. There are answers to questions after that if you are still interested (after seeing the abomination :wink: ).

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Hello there! :) Thank you for taking your time and your information on the decks. I will go over to page 357 and read the questions and comments. Good luck to you in the future with your Legacy playing :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by beez

@Fannatic.
How do you best side in when using both Vial and Chalice? What do you take out and leave in in those matchups?
It depends on do I even want Vial and/or Chalice in a given matchup. To answer that I would have to make a sideboard guide like kubalonek. But I am not sure I have definitive sideboard guide. Wouldn't want to give false information.

Also, with Force, how do you deal with having so many non-blue artfacts in? Almost makes you want to put in a Waterfront Bouncer to pitch the extras.
Maybe I should play Ensoul Artifact :wink: Yes, there are a lot of artifacts in my 75, but they are not going in the main at the same time, they are crippling to certain strategies, we have so many colorless lands to cast them instead of more blue spells in side and I have few Vendillions to cycle them. There are 34 blue cards in the main, to play FoW in legacy you need something like 18 blue spells, at minimum. Having something to pitch wasn't a problem so far, other things are, like having dead cards in mid/late game. This is where Brainstorm, Bouncer or more Vendillions could come in handy. But all those things have a cost.

I have been genarlly dissatisfied with both the Vial and Chalice versions. They each have thier advantages and disadvantages, and I wonder if incorporating them together can work, because it seems if you don't get them down in the right order you can be holding a lot of nothing. But I'd be intetested in seeing how it works. I'd be willing to try it if I could trust the lines of play. Also how it could work with Swan Song rather than Flusterstorm as one might do with Chalice.
Is Kevin Donnelly here or maybe someone knows him? We'd like to pick his brain on his good result this weekend: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=72880
As I said, that particular sideboard was made for my particular metagame and have no "weight" on how correct 15 should be picked. My sideboard should not be copied :laugh:

Hell, I've experimented with using Lotus Petal rather than Vial with Chalice for especially explosive beatdown starts, even Dazing with Cavern for mana ramps, but that plays so linearly sometimes. In those I use three Tidal Warriors rather than Cosi's Trickster, or rather two Tidal Warriors and one Trickster. It's not bad at all, it can put a hurting rather quickly. But for a tourney I would rather lean to something like Fannatic's deck, so I'm just curious how to side properly to use them together.
My lines were even crazier. I was thinking about incorporating Noble Hierarch or BoP and Deathrite Shaman to accelerate into Selkie, Shardless Agent and Edric. Draw ALL THE CARDS!

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