Unban Black Vise. The card is only useful in Affinity and Burn and sucks in mid- lategame. Also, I just got a beta playset.
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Unban Black Vise. The card is only useful in Affinity and Burn and sucks in mid- lategame. Also, I just got a beta playset.
I still think the card could be serious buisness with Stifle, Wasteland and Co.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicar in a tutu
It would. And it would lead to even more "fun" games of Magic in the format with nothing positive to show for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Maybe. Also, if you are on the play: Land an Ancient Tomb and tap it to cast two Black Vises. Drool....Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Not to forget: Turn 2 Sphere of Resistance + WastelandQuote:
Originally Posted by Vicar in a tutu
Edit: In essence, I don't think WotC should push uninteractive games on the level of trained monkeys at all
I remember turn1 Sol Ring -> double Vise back in 1996. Not that Ancient Tomb is Sol Ring, otoh, it's not B&R.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Iď love to see Black Vise legal, though, just for the sake of experiment. They may always ban it again and stop the discussion.
Oh, can I then get Necropotence and/or Yawgmoth's Will back for 3 months then too? Can I?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer
What are you, a Storm player? :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
And an Elves player...
And a Miracles playerQuote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
What use would Necro be in Miracles?
I get your joke Lemnear, but if I may answer in a bit more serious way (considering you were also a bit serious about the Vise/Necro experiment), then I think that there's a big difference in power level of both cards.
Also, we allow one Necro and one Vise in 1995/96. One Necro's not that brutal, even though Hymn is unrestricted... and that's basically because Mind Twist is banned and as such, singleton Hymn would mean "play Disk or get out of the format". And we really think that a good black aggro should be the part of a metagame. Also, Consultation is a mere one-off, so it's not like every (sry: "any") game is DRit->Necro.
As opposed to being on the draw vs. a delver? I'll take the Vise thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
Cabal Therapy requires a different skillset than Brainstorm; it's about knowing the format and being aware of the possible options your opponent has to actually threaten you. Brainstorm + Cabal Therapy is actually quite a skill intensive arrangement for both players. It involves a level-assessment of your opponent in addition to solid knowledge of their deck; you could probably write an entire article on that interaction alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Regardless, there are very few things about this game that are actually "difficult." I mean, Storm and Elves are widely considered some of the more complicated decks simply because they require a whole lot of (basic) math. You can say that Brainstorm isn't a very skill-intensive card all you like, but you are really just saying that Magic as a whole isn't that skill-intensive. Compared to many things, you're totally correct. However, relative to the rest of Magic, Brainstorm is quite difficult to make the most of.
I feel like most decks would rather play against a Delver, but I suppose it's moot since Black Vise will likely be played in Delver decks anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by nedleeds
This is not true. Brainstorm is pretty easy to use: just ship away the worst two cards in the best possible moment. I really can't understand what's so special about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzra
Except it is not always easy to seee which cards are bad and which are good. Also, with Brainstorm being an Instant, there are many possible moments, and finding the right can be tough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer
Decisions get maximized, good plays are rewarded-> Skill intensive card.
BS is very easy to use. But to master? That takes a long time. For example, there arew times when it is absolutely correct to burn that thing on drawing. There are times when it is best to use it later. There are even times when it is the best play to not use it at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer
I can imagine that the idea of unbanning cards for a testing period of 3 month with a possible re-ban afterwards could leave a bad taste in players mouth. Modern already has the bad reputation of using its players success to shape the banlist (edit: sry; iffy sentence, but I hope you get the idea). I dont think it would encourage players to invest into decks around the cards in question then and possibly create flawed results during the testing period. We all know the reservations Modern deckbuilding has atm like "I don't buy into tier 1 deck x because the keycard y will get banned anyways...". I don't want a doubtful environment for deckbuilding transfered to Legacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer
Yes, of course. In fact I don't even want Vise unbanned, but if it's the only chance how to get the answer if it's broken or not... I believe the main troubl with it is that it's highly annoying card and there are enough of them already legal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
@ Brainstorm: This can be told on just about any card. I really think that the correct usage of BS isn't that complicated, but then again, maybe I'm a Good Player... :smile:
Back on the Brainstorm BS again? (Round and round the garden, like a teddy bear...)
Brainstorm is not complicated to use. Seeing the right moment almost always is as simple as a board read or in response to a spell. Knowing what to put back can be hard, but you can just draw one of the cards and then shuffle away the other with a fetch.
I don't hate the card, I don't want it gone, but I hate the argument that digging for answers/mana fixing your hand/needing a threat is hard to see and then pay one blue to do.
Do you need to cast Brainstorm? Yes, then that's the time. No, not the time. Skilful? No, not really.
Honestly, I feel that Force is more skill intensive than Brainstorm. Knowing that you have to hold a card, just because you may need it later to pitch I'd say if far more of a skill than asking, "Will Brainstorm fix this problem I have?"