Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
T1 discard is a mistake unless you can combo the following turn or KNOW to play against combo, therefore I rarely fetch for U.Sea T1 if I have a second land in hand.
Agree. better play discard as silence. I expose more scenarios as examples which makes sense to play T1Discard - I refer mainly to just have that chance.
On top that I think that T1+T2 discard isn't a common (with 6 discard spells) nor desireable opening for this deck to make Badlands worth including. Pondering off a fetched Volcanic if you just have 1 Fetchland and 1 IMS total in your hand, but a grip full of black cards is nonsense anyways ;)
Well I would say U/B + B/R -> having a grip of U producers is nonsense also, what matters is to have T1: All available,T2: B/R/U. note also the Bryant Last Deck SCGDC has 13 lands 2 C.M and 7 Discards. What I am evaluating is to play regarding this list +1C.M -1 Dicard
As mentioned, I prefer Volcanic as my first land unless I have good reasons to get an U.Sea as it is also disguising the deck to some extent. I hate T1 discard vs. Unknown as it's usually a waste unless you can go off T2 and a wasted card/mana, if you just Stare at D&T, Lands or similar (game 1s).
Agree T1 discard vs unknow is not good except for: ANT, Omnishow, Therapies X n, D&T for hatebear, Miracles for C.B. so it seems relevant to have at least this chance, isn't it?
@CoB
If you want to keep 12 blue sources and 10 green postboard it would even make sense to play Tropical instead. Mind, that I don't agree with your stated requirements, but if you want to stick to those, Tropical is your card
Tropical is a slow card not allowing you to cast D.R. and either RoF. I would prefer not to play this land.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RaNDoMxGeSTuReS
Historically, I haven't agreed with Pelikanudo because most of his points are nonsensical.
it is ok, do not mind you have that general opinion, but the current SCG Bryant base is like I posted except -1C.M = +1 Duress. Even that Manabase I didn't play as I was on Gemstones Mire Era due to the lack of playing MTG.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
How does two Fetches and therfore access to Sea + Volcanic cut you off from T1 discard? It does not. All you ever lose is EXACTLY 1 scenario:
"T1 Fetchland #1 into Discard -> T2 Ponder/Brainstorm into Fetchland #2 into Badlands into discard #2 -> T3 having B+R via two lands"
A Lotus Petal negates the need for the Badlands as well as any additional land would for your turn three on top of the low Chance/value of casting Discard T1 & T2
Edit :
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pelikanudo
it is ok, do not mind you have that general opinion, but the current SCG Bryant base is like I posted except -1C.M = +1 Duress. Even that Manabase I didn't play as I was on Gemstones Mire Era due to the lack of playing MTG.
WTF dood? Why doesn't +/- 1 Mox, +/- 1 land, +/- 2 Rituals matter to you at all?
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
How does two Fetches and therfore access to Sea + Volcanic cut you off from T1 discard? It does not. All you ever lose is EXACTLY 1 scenario:
"T1 Fetchland #1 into Discard -> T2 Ponder/Brainstorm into Fetchland #2 into Badlands into discard #2 -> T3 having B+R via two lands"
A Lotus Petal negates the need for the Badlands as well as any additional land would for your turn three on top of the low Chance/value of casting Discard T1 & T2
Related to this specific question: Agree, it does not.
Ok, then there is +1 Scenario, also add all the scenarios I listed before, it seems that there are enough reasons to play Badlands.
Lotus Petal? maybe I don't understand, I am talking about turn 2
- Really don't you see a benefit playing U.Sea in case there is a need to play Discard in the 1st turn and next play B.S. into other discard?
- U.Sea should be the Land most played in 1st turn because the deck has +7 or +6 Black Spells than Red Spells. it should be the natural choice and not fetching V.Island because next you need to ponder or B.S. with V.I to next fetch for U.S.... this is not logic.
These are some I posted:
a) C.M on ponder plus fetch for badlands to cast B.W. or I.T. on 1st turn to the needed card
b) fetch to U.Sea to ponder to beeing able on next turn to play fetch to Badlands to cast disruption or B.W. or I.T. or cantrip
c) fetch to U.Sea to discard, next turn B.S. and fetch to badlands to discard or other thing
d) if Volcanic Island is wastelanded I still have Badlands, however with this manabase I find that U.Sea is the card I most of the times will search the first turn, which is also the one that handle most scenarios...
Edit :
WTF dood? Why doesn't +/- 1 Mox, +/- 1 land, +/- 2 Rituals matter to you at all?
I compared the List I posted in the Link with the Bryant List which won him the SCG DC Torunament the unique differences were -1 C.M +1 Duress - See links below:
I've never been a fan of C.R. in TES.
Me:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post895991
Bryant:
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...yant_cook.html
@Final Fortune:
If you could throw some of your thoughts...
I only see 3 alternatives...
a) 8Fetch 2 U.S, 2 V.I. 1 Swamp:
Con: 9 G Access Sources, not beeing able to cast discard on 1st turn and next B.S. with
Pro: Sitting On Swamp To discard
b) 8Fetch 2 U.S, 2 V.I. 1 Badlands
Con: 9 G Access Sources
Pro: See scenarios above
c) 8Fetch 2 U.S, 1 V.I. 1 Badlands, 1 CoB
Con: CoB cause damage?, Maybe there are chances to draw into dead fetches?
Pro: 10 G Access Sources , See scenarios above
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Does this site have a block feature? This is a shitshow.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ManCharm
Does this site have a block feature? This is a shitshow.
It's what happens when you feed trolls.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ManCharm
Does this site have a block feature? This is a shitshow.
Click on the name of the dick head you want to block go to their profile, add to ignore list :) Welcome to The Source!
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jake556
Click on the name of the dick head you want to block go to their profile, add to ignore list :) Welcome to The Source!
You are my favorite <3
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pelikanudo
@Final Fortune:
If you could throw some of your thoughts...
I only see 3 alternatives...
a) 8Fetch 2 U.S, 2 V.I. 1 Swamp:
Con: 9 G Access Sources, not beeing able to cast discard on 1st turn and next B.S. with
Pro: Sitting On Swamp To discard
b) 8Fetch 2 U.S, 2 V.I. 1 Badlands
Con: 9 G Access Sources
Pro: See scenarios above
c) 8Fetch 2 U.S, 1 V.I. 1 Badlands, 1 CoB
Con: CoB cause damage?, Maybe there are chances to draw into dead fetches?
Pro: 10 G Access Sources , See scenarios above
Badlands doesn't make sense to me without Island, the point is to have accesss to all three colors so that you can continue to develop your position with plays like discard or Burning Wish until you find the 3rd mana sources you need to be able to cast every thing. I think Island is perfectly sensible if you want to be able to Ponder, Go - it's just a bit slow and doesn't follow my T2 ETW Goldfish philosophy.
I think 8 Fetch, 3 Sea, 2 Volc, 2 Mox is a fine alternative manabase as well and my preferred default, I tried the lists with MD Swamp and Bayou and had quite a few problems with sequencing cantrips with fetchlands, which is why I think every land producing blue is pretty important in a land light deck. I think the Swamp vs Underground Sea and a SB Thoughtseize vs 3rd Xantid Swarm is about all we disagree on, I've tried to steer away from aggressively playing Duress as the metagame has progressively become more blue. The value of gathering that information or pre-emptively stopping disruption has gotten less and less to the point where I'd rather just have more consistent mulligans and lose the SB space to the Bayou.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pelikanudo
Ok, then there is +1 Scenario, also add all the scenarios I listed before, it seems that there are enough reasons to play Badlands.
I have read only 1 scenario (double discard) where you want the badlands and that scenario doesn't make much sense, even statistically
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pelikanudo
Lotus Petal? maybe I don't understand, I am talking about turn 2
can you combo T2 after your cantrip + discard line? No. You have to move to turn 3 for the combo anyways and here any third land or Petal can fix the red mana, if you start with T1 Sea -> Discard, T2 Ponder/Brainstorm into Fetch for second Sea into Discard to maintain that marginal relevant playline even without Badlands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pelikanudo
- Really don't you see a benefit playing U.Sea in case there is a need to play Discard in the 1st turn and next play B.S. into other discard?
no, its an idiotic playline against unknown
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pelikanudo
- U.Sea should be the Land most played in 1st turn because the deck has +7 or +6 Black Spells than Red Spells. it should be the natural choice and not fetching V.Island because next you need to ponder or B.S. with V.I to next fetch for U.S.... this is not logic.
Again: No. You don't play this deck off a single IMS anyways and expose a dual T1 only for a) a desperate Ponder into land #2 or b) if you know to play against combo and want to cast the T1 discard or c) if you combo off turn 1. If you Fetch for a Sea to Ponder with the hope to find a second land, you're doing it wrong.
I love to play "Fetch, go" in my first turn to break the fetch in my second turn for Volcanic, Ponder/Brainstorm, dig for Sea with Fetch #2, cast discard and combo turn 3. Even with T1 Ponder, T2 Brainstorm into discard the land sequencing stays the same. I'm shattered that I really have to talk about cantrip fundamentals. Its not logic to choose lands according to colors in the deck rather than cards in hand ;)
These are some I posted:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pelikanudo
a) C.M on ponder plus fetch for badlands to cast B.W. or I.T. on 1st turn to the needed card
Doesn't fix Dark Ritual + Wish. We have two colored acceleration/business and have to credit that. How many times do I have to mention that as construction fundament?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pelikanudo
b) fetch to U.Sea to ponder to beeing able on next turn to play fetch to Badlands to cast disruption or B.W. or I.T. or cantrip
And how is Volcanic/Sea and different here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pelikanudo
c) fetch to U.Sea to discard, next turn B.S. and fetch to badlands to discard or other thing
As mentioned before: Idiotic playline which could be done with double U.Sea as well. as you don't combo turn 2 anyways but turn 3, a Petal or an additional Fetch/Volcanic can fix colors still.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pelikanudo
d) if Volcanic Island is wastelanded I still have Badlands, however with this manabase I find that U.Sea is the card I most of the times will search the first turn, which is also the one that handle most scenarios...
It does not and I explained it before. Does 1 land provide black + red mana for your combo? No, so skip the skewed "1 IMS left after Wasteland" argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pelikanudo
I compared the List I posted in the Link with the Bryant List which won him the SCG DC Torunament the unique differences were -1 C.M +1 Duress - See links below:
he did not "win" the tournament. this is Day 1 data
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
I like how the troll is trying to take credit for my top 8 list, when I posted one two posts above his that was one card different from what I played.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
I like how the troll is trying to take credit for my top 8 list, when I posted one two posts above his that was one card different from what I played.
anything you were unpleased with? The games 2 & 3 against infect killed me watching
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
anything you were unpleased with? The games 2 & 3 against infect killed me watching
I had some pretty bad luck that round, but variance happens. I mulled to 5 game two (Can't do much about that) and game three my Brainstorm just bricked, it happens. I do have some other thoughts which will be in my report.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
I had some pretty bad luck that round, but variance happens. I mulled to 5 game two (Can't do much about that) and game three my Brainstorm just bricked, it happens. I do have some other thoughts which will be in my report.
Bad beats there. Do you side in CoV's for the matchup? Was hoping to see a punish on the misplayed Vines -> Elf instead of Vines -> Inkmoth.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Hey All,
After about a 2 year break from Legacy and Magic all together, I have come back into Legacy on MTGO (yea I know, it sucks compared to paper). I had to sell off the majority of my paper collection save Affinity in Modern, and RUG Delver in Legacy. Coming back in on MTGO was cheaper and fit my play schedule a bit more. Storm was the deck I wanted to build online since I had the most fun with it. RUG was the paper deck I kept since the odds of it changing a ton of cards over time was slimmer then Storm changing a bunch of cards.
TLDR: I took a break from Magic for ~2 years. I am back on MTGO. Storm is cheap (ish) on MTGO. I am looking to buy Storm.
What are the big changes (summary is fine) and why? I see now that we cut white and Silence from the board, Wish board is still intact to a degree, etc.
I know back 2 years back I played TES over ANT since the speed seemed to be very powerful to just spit out 14 ish Goblins and win off that turn 1. Is this still the main difference between the decks, "Speed + Mana Producers (C. Mox, RoF) + Wish Board (more tutors)" versus "More discard + Graveyard dependent (cabal rit, PiF) + 2 Color Manabase".
Thanks in advance, happy to be back!
-Seabass
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oSeabass
Hey All,
After about a 2 year break from Legacy and Magic all together, I have come back into Legacy on MTGO (yea I know, it sucks compared to paper). I had to sell off the majority of my paper collection save Affinity in Modern, and RUG Delver in Legacy. Coming back in on MTGO was cheaper and fit my play schedule a bit more. Storm was the deck I wanted to build online since I had the most fun with it. RUG was the paper deck I kept since the odds of it changing a ton of cards over time was slimmer then Storm changing a bunch of cards.
TLDR: I took a break from Magic for ~2 years. I am back on MTGO. Storm is cheap (ish) on MTGO. I am looking to buy Storm.
What are the big changes (summary is fine) and why? I see now that we cut white and Silence from the board, Wish board is still intact to a degree, etc.
I know back 2 years back I played TES over ANT since the speed seemed to be very powerful to just spit out 14 ish Goblins and win off that turn 1. Is this still the main difference between the decks, "Speed + Mana Producers (C. Mox, RoF) + Wish Board (more tutors)" versus "More discard + Graveyard dependent (cabal rit, PiF) + 2 Color Manabase".
Thanks in advance, happy to be back!
-Seabass
We cut White, moved to a Fetchland manabase, increased the number of lands and decreased the number of Chrome Mox in order to be a more consistent and resilient T2 Storm deck.
Most of the thread has just been squabbling over the exact configuration of lands and number of Chrome Mox.
@Bryant
Do you have any thoughts on 13 land/2 Mox vs 14 lands/1 Mox MD?
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Final Fortune
We cut White, moved to a Fetchland manabase, increased the number of lands and decreased the number of Chrome Mox in order to be a more consistent and resilient T2 Storm deck.
Most of the thread has just been squabbling over the exact configuration of lands and number of Chrome Mox.
@Bryant
Do you have any thoughts on 13 land/2 Mox vs 14 lands/1 Mox MD?
If you watched any of the coverage, my Ad Nauseams were praying to reveal more Chrome Moxes in most scenarios. I'm sticking to two.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Final Fortune
We cut White, moved to a Fetchland manabase, increased the number of lands and decreased the number of Chrome Mox in order to be a more consistent and resilient T2 Storm deck.
Most of the thread has just been squabbling over the exact configuration of lands and number of Chrome Mox.
@Bryant
Do you have any thoughts on 13 land/2 Mox vs 14 lands/1 Mox MD?
Thanks for the update. I know back when I ran it I really liked having the Chrome Mox since I found myself relying on the AN route more often then not. In those scenarios having another 0 mana source when I have to go all in with no floating mana and hope for a source seems great.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
When you cut Chrome Mox, you have to significantly change how you approach Ad Nauseam, you play "new" TES a lot closer to ANT via floating mana rather than "old" TES and it takes some getting used to. I default board out ETW g2 vs BUG/RUG tho', so cutting the 4cc card may have an impact. Granted it's a pretty delicate balance if you want to play Ad Nauseam aggressively.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Final Fortune
When you cut Chrome Mox, you have to significantly change how you approach Ad Nauseam, you play "new" TES a lot closer to ANT via floating mana rather than "old" TES and it takes some getting used to. I default board out ETW g2 vs BUG/RUG tho', so cutting the 4cc card may have an impact. Granted it's a pretty delicate balance if you want to play Ad Nauseam aggressively.
If I may quickly ask, what makes you choose the Ad Nauseam route per default over a quick EtW vs BUG/RUG?
