[Deck] Death and Taxes

There are four reasons why you aren't seeing consistent lists of Death and Taxes:

The price of Rishadan Port online is insane compared to the rest of the deck, and I think even more expensive than it's paper counterpart.
Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Recruiter of the Guard
Sanctum Prelate

The deck had a pretty consistent list until the new Thalia was printed, and then Conspiracy 2 (with Prelate and Recruiter) shook everything up yet again, and we as the D&T community still haven't decided what's best, as you can see by the last few months' worth of lists.

For more consistent lists, and something that some may argue would be easier to learn (as they're less reliant on the toolbox approach and figuring out what number to name with Prelate), look for lists from before Conspiracy 2 came out.

We really want him to get to play with the new cards as it sounds like they've given the deck a little boost. It's also more accurate from our own testing. Since it sounds like the deck is in a bit of flux I went to MTGTop8 compared the top decks and basically built the "average" deck. I know sometimes that looses a little something, but this is the list https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/522542#online.

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Originally Posted by TGCRequiem

We really want him to get to play with the new cards as it sounds like they've given the deck a little boost. It's also more accurate from our own testing. Since it sounds like the deck is in a bit of flux I went to MTGTop8 compared the top decks and basically built the "average" deck. I know sometimes that looses a little something, but this is the list https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/522542#online.

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That's a very solid "current" list. I say go for it.

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Originally Posted by TGCRequiem

We really want him to get to play with the new cards as it sounds like they've given the deck a little boost. It's also more accurate from our own testing. Since it sounds like the deck is in a bit of flux I went to MTGTop8 compared the top decks and basically built the "average" deck. I know sometimes that looses a little something, but this is the list https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/522542#online.

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+1. Looks like a solid list to me as well.

The obvious change to that list is removing thalia, heretic cathar for a card that is worth tutoring for like mirran crusader, banisher priest, mangara or palace jailer.

I think by now is pretty much clear that thalia heretic cathar is a card you either play in multiples or don't play at all.

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Originally Posted by LeoCop 90

The obvious change to that list is removing thalia, heretic cathar for a card that is worth tutoring for like mirran crusader, banisher priest, mangara or palace jailer.

I think by now is pretty much clear that thalia heretic cathar is a card you either play in multiples or don't play at all.

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Very true IMO - besides, taking the mean mtgtop8.com death and taxes deck already averages exactly 1 Mirran Crusader. Having an extra Serra Avenger instead of THC looks like this :

4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Karakas
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Horizon Canopy
9 Plains
4 Mother of Runes
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Recruiter of the Guard
4 Flickerwisp
2 Sanctum Prelate
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
2 Serra Avenger
4 Aether Vial
1 Mirran Crusader

Also a good looking list! When I have Serra Avenger in my deck there's never a time I wish I drew something else.

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Originally Posted by contra

Very true IMO - besides, taking the mean mtgtop8.com death and taxes deck already averages exactly 1 Mirran Crusader. Having an extra Serra Avenger instead of THC looks like this :

4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Karakas
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Horizon Canopy
9 Plains
4 Mother of Runes
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Recruiter of the Guard
4 Flickerwisp
2 Sanctum Prelate
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
2 Serra Avenger
4 Aether Vial
1 Mirran Crusader

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my list has just a small difference, 10 plains and no horizon canopy.

people playing canopy, do you think it´s worth it?

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Originally Posted by Ancestral

my list has just a small difference, 10 plains and no horizon canopy.

people playing canopy, do you think it´s worth it?

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I've never seen a huge downside to playing canopy. It's a draw spell late, the damage rarely hurts and we already have plenty of wasteable sources. I never understood not playing canopy unless you want like 3 caverns or something.

I play one in addition to 3 Caverns and I like it. However, I would also say it's not a HUGE boost; I wouldn't play one of I had to drop 60+ bucks on one...

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Hi everybody, I'm new here, I used to play Burn in legacy but now I'm playing D&T since few months.
I really like the deck but I always played the more aggro version (the "old" one) adjusted with THC.
My current decklist is something similar to Thomas Enevoldsen's one from Prague.
Now, I would like to start playing some new list but I don't know how to balance numbers between the new cards.

This is what I think is necessary, but I would like so have some suggestions about the remaining slots (4):

2 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
10 Plains (because i would like to play 1 magus of the moon in the sideboard)

3 Mother of Runes
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Flickerwisp
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Sanctum Prelate

1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial

First of all: how many recruiters? 2 or 3?
As "bigger" creatures what do you prefer? Why? (THC/Avengers/Crusader)
As "utility" creatures instead (spirit of the labirinth, banisher priest, ecc.)?

What I think:

THC
It is useful, it slows down creature based deck and it provides some TGT effect. I mean that versus decks with few basics land, if I pass the turn and he has 2 duals on the battlefield, I'm sure that he can't cast a Liliana next turn dropping a land from hand. It is useful versus elves and eldrazi, and shuts down sneak attack. I don't think that playing a single copy makes much sense, two is the right number for this card.

Serra Avenger
3/3 flying, nothing else to say, vigilance is very powerful in D&T but he has no "control effects". It's very useful vs creature based decks to load jitte, to block delver or to win the race versus a true-name nemesis. It also makes a better mana curve, but it is not human. In a "recruiter-based" deck a single copy makes no sense, 2x or nothing.

Mirran Crusader
A piece that it's like a finisher, very good versus BUG. Playing a single copy still makes sense.

I'm attending a big tournament next sunday but I have no time to test.
I could play the more aggro version, maybe adding prelates, but I saw that the "much control" one is doing very well recently.
Suggestions?

4th MOM, 2 avengers 1 crusader in my list.

i´ve seen a few lists with only 3 mother of runes... can´t understand that, its the reason why i started to pplay this deck, só strong!

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Originally Posted by Ancestral

i´ve seen a few lists with only 3 mother of runes... can´t understand that, its the reason why i started to pplay this deck, só strong!

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The first reasons that come to mind are Terminus, Toxic Deluge, Kozilek's Return, Massacre, and Eldrazi.dec. I'm not saying 3 is definitely right, but I can easily see a meta where it's not wrong. I happened to be on 3 in my last event and it worked out alright. I even had a game where I had to attack with two Moms for three turns in a row because I really needed the damage: there are definitely game states where her activated ability isn't all that great.

@Pedro my additions to your core would be 2 THC, 1 Recruiter, 1 Crusader, but I'm definitely not sold on that being ideal. I was mostly wanting to try THC because I never have before.

Some people want to cut Moms because you can still win a whole lot of games without her, and there are a few matchups where she does next to nothing (especially Eldrazi). It's also hard to find slots for our new toys because we have so many 4-ofs.

THC is awesome when she comes down early. I find opponents are often more afraid of her than TGT. Late game she's often underwhelming, though.

Mirran Crusader has won me more games singlehandedly than any other creature, but it was also typically against BG/x decks. He still eats Bolts, Plows, and Punishing Fires just the same as everyone else.

Avenger is great but not tutorable and is nothing but a beat stick that carries equipment very well. I've recently cut her for more slots that affect the board besides power and toughness, and increasing my Human count also allowed me to safely go up to 3 Caverns. Lots of blue decks in my meta.

I actually believe that Thalia, Heretic Cathar is bad. It's pretty nuts when you're playing a white Eldrazi Stompy kind of thing where you can go MoxD, Ancient Tomb, THC. But in DnT she comes down on Turn3 earliest. She's good against Eldrazi as it essentially means their Reality Smashers won't have Haste, but in a lot of other matchups she is kind of mediocre. I mean, she's probably solid as a card per se, but she does not have as much impact on a certain matchup compared to Mangara of Corondor against Miracles, Mirran Crusader against BG/x, Sanctum Prelate against Show and Tell decks or Lands where he shuts down PunFire, Decay and Loam (he can do similar against Jund).

I do believe the current consensus list is kinda like this:

4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Horizon Canopy
10 Plains
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Flickerwisp
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Serra Avenger
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Banisher Priest
1 Mirran Crusader
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Aether Vial

A lot of lists play Mangara of Corondor instead of Banisher Priest, I personally prefer the Priest for its more immediate impact. It's super bad against Miracles for instance, but in every combat-oriented matchup I find the Priest to be strictly better as the Mangara engine requires 3 cards to work properly, is vulnerable to basically anything and slow. I do believe this is a meta choice.
The sideboard can be customized very well and there are cards like Leonin Relic Warder that I'll play around with a little bit.

Here is my current list:

Creatures:26
4 Mother of Runes
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
3 Recruiter of the Guard
3 Sanctum Prelate
1 Palace Jailer

Spells:11
4 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

Lands:23
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Karakas
11 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:15
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Fiendslayer Paladin
4 Chrome Mox
2 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace

Ooh, I like your list! That sideboard has me a little hot and bothered.

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Which matchups do you bring the Chrome Mox in for?

Imo anything where faster = better. Combo like SnT/Reanimator and storm where your best plays are t1 Thalia into t2 Prelate. Against storm you can probably drop moms for them, and you also have Canonist you can drop on turn 1 via mox. Moxen are also good on the draw against Daze lists. Not so sure against SnT, depends on the version, I suppose.

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I board Chrome Mox in

as faster mana

• when I only need to resolve a few key cards to win: Storm
• against decks that race me: Elves
• when I need to race: Turbo Eldrazi

as more mana

• against resource denial decks: Pox

as replacement for some copies of Aether Vial

• when on the draw in non-grindy matchups

These scenarios overlap. I bring in some copies of Chorme Mox often. I have also tried with 3 copies in the board as I dont board in the fourth copy as often as the first.