[Deck] Elves Combo

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Originally Posted by NihilObstat

And what do you tutor with the wishes? Only Entity?

I run Mirror Entity maindeck, and while it's won me so many games, by full aggro, helping to chump block with 4/4 or 5/5s one turn, and kill the next turn, it usually isn't good enough to kill the same turn I play it, because all the elves I control, except maybe 2, have summoning sickness. I could put Concordant back in the deck, but I don't think so, anyway it's usually only against Pyroclasm-effects or very fast aggro that I search for Mirror entity in the first game.
I don't understand how Living Wish could be Glimpse 5 and 6, although I really like Living maindeck, it's better than Zenith since we actually get to cast the creatures and draw from them.

Everyone running Living wish, what bullets do your carry in the sideboard (Gaea's craddle, Faerie Macabre-Yixlid jailer, Mirror entity, Harmonic sliver, Dauntless escort, Burrenton forge-tender, Regal force, Eternal witness, Gaddock teeg, Emrakul ? Others ?)

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Ezuri- AWESOME with wish

Regal Force-Never hurts to have him available

Terrastodon-Gets rid of anything that might stop you (except humility)

Emrakul-Win. Main Combo target

Eternal Witness-Good in theory but I am having my doubts now. We shall see

Viridian Shaman-Gets rid of smaller things when you can't afford terrastodon yet

Cradle-When mana is needed

4 Leyline of lifeforce- AWESOME. I can't stress enough how good this card is. It allows you to play a completely different deck when you need to.

4 Thorn- Vs. Combo.

Since Green Sun's Zenith was spoiled I've been messing around with Elf Combo with decent success. This is the list I've been running, I've found GS'sZ to be absolutely absurd in the deck. Any thoughts from more experience Elf Combo players?

// Lands:13
12 [CHK] Forest (3)
1 [US] Gaea's Cradle

// Creatures:39
4 [EVG] Llanowar Elves
4 [DM] Fyndhorn Elves
4 [EVE] Nettle Sentinel
4 [MOR] Heritage Druid
4 [EVG] Wirewood Symbiote
4 [VI] Quirion Ranger
4 [M10] Elvish Visionary
3 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
2 [ON] Birchlore Rangers
1 [EVE] Regal Force
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [DS] Viridian Zealot
1 [FD] Eternal Witness
1 [SC] Xantid Swarm
1 [AP] Sylvan Messenger

// Spells:8
4 [CHK] Glimpse of Nature
4 [MB] Green Sun's Zenith

// Sideboard:15
SB: 4 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 3 [WWK] Nature's Claim
SB: 2 [HOP] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
SB: 1 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [WWK] Terastodon
SB: 1 [DS] Viridian Zealot
SB: 1 [SC] Xantid Swarm

Could Lead the Stampede replace anyone who runs Sylvan Mesenger? I'll definitely try it.

I would not. It even lowers the creature count on its own.

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Originally Posted by NihilObstat

And what do you tutor with the wishes? Only Entity?

I run Mirror Entity maindeck, and while it's won me so many games, by full aggro, helping to chump block with 4/4 or 5/5s one turn, and kill the next turn, it usually isn't good enough to kill the same turn I play it, because all the elves I control, except maybe 2, have summoning sickness. I could put Concordant back in the deck, but I don't think so, anyway it's usually only against Pyroclasm-effects or very fast aggro that I search for Mirror entity in the first game.
I don't understand how Living Wish could be Glimpse 5 and 6, although I really like Living maindeck, it's better than Zenith since we actually get to cast the creatures and draw from them.

Everyone running Living wish, what bullets do your carry in the sideboard (Gaea's craddle, Faerie Macabre-Yixlid jailer, Mirror entity, Harmonic sliver, Dauntless escort, Burrenton forge-tender, Regal force, Eternal witness, Gaddock teeg, Emrakul ? Others ?)

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Wow you run Mirror maindeck... What do you use to tutor for it? The reason I suggested living wish is because it can search for any color creature... I don't count living wish as a 5th glimpse of nature but as way to search for a win-con.

My sideboard is

4 Krosan Grip
4 Vexing shusher (can be tutored using living)
1 Regal Force
1 Ezuri
1 Emrakul
1 Elvish Archdruid
1 Terrastodon
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Geaa's Cradle

I do not run Elvish Archdruid maindeck but instead run priests.

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Originally Posted by Neil

Wow you run Mirror maindeck... What do you use to tutor for it?

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As I've said about 5 times on this thread, I run Chord of Calling, which allow for so many sick instant speed sideboard tricks. It could be replaced by Living Wish or GreenSZenith, which would reduce the tutor cost by 1 or 2, but would lose the instant trick.

I know that Mirror Entity looks stupid, but you should try it out and you'll love it.
I've won so many games thanks to its aggro quality, but even more thanks to its crazy synergy with Symbiote. Those two together can recover anything. Recasting as many times as you need Regal Force, Harmonic Sliver, Eternal Witness recovering Burrenton forge-tender or Dauntless escort. He also makes us not fizzling while going off next to Symbiote.

If you don't remmeber the combo it goes like this (Heritage+Mirror+Symbiote+Nettle, pay 1 w/mirror, tap our new symbiote-elf plus2 elves add3, return Symbiote to himself, untap elf, cast Symb., pay1, tap3, return Symb 2 himself, untap, cast......infinite).

That's just me though...





On a different Topic:

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...0&iddeck=39902

So that's a 42 creatures deck + 18 lands. I'd say it needs some Concordant Crossroads to get to use those Priests and Archdruids and specially the Shaman to tutor Emrakul in the same turn, and maybe also Visionary.
What do you guys think?

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Originally Posted by NihilObstat

On a different Topic:

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...0&iddeck=39902

So that's a 42 creatures deck + 18 lands. I'd say it needs some Concordant Crossroads to get to use those Priests and Archdruids and specially the Shaman to tutor Emrakul in the same turn, and maybe also Visionary.
What do you guys think?

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I think that deck us more suited to be posted on the aggro-elves thread.

Looks like my old Survival deck, but without Glimpse nor Survival. :\

The tournament was also only 25 people, so there's not much to read from that.

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Originally Posted by (nameless one)

I think that deck us more suited to be posted on the aggro-elves thread.

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Right, sorry, I didn't know there was an aggro-elves thread on the source, since they always put us together on Decks pages like deckcheck and the council... nevermind ^^




Different Topic:

So, this other list made top5 out of 45, and it looks just like my list other than the fact that I don't run Vexing shusher or Harmonic sliver maindeck, and I run 2 Cloudstone curio.

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...5&iddeck=40294

Thoughts? Likes, dislikes?

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Originally Posted by Neil

My living wish build

Creatures:

3 Birchlore Rangers
4 Quirion Ranger
4 lanowar elves
4 elvish visionary
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Fyndhorn elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 wirewood symbiote
1 Regal Force
3 Priest of Titania
1 Joraga Warcaller


Spells

3 living wish
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Summoner's pact


Lands

1 Wooded Foothills
2 Verdant catacombs
10 forest


Sideboard

1 Elvish Archdruid (or Elvish Champion)
4 Krosan Grip
4 Vexing Shusher
1 Regal Force
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Emrakul, the aeons torn
1 Ezuri, renegade leader
1 Eternal Witness


I am not sure as to wether the Archdruid should become an Elvish Champion or not. Let me know what you guys think.

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Here's a thought: - 4 fyndhorn elves, -1 forest, - 2 Summoner's pact, + 4 Green Sun's Zenith, + 1 Dryad Arbor, + 1 Elvish Archdruid, + 1 Elvish Champion.

The idea's that GSZ functions as llanowars 5-8 with Dryad arbor, and you want to smoothen out draws with GSZ more than Summoner's pact since Pact is trouble when you cast it in multiples (I've lost a game when my double Pact led to a fizzled combo and I couldn't pay 8 next turn). The addition of both the champion and Archdruid MD make for a better aggro Plan B as well as giving an additional big mana elf to go off with. Of course you can just ditch 1 pact and bring in just an Archdruid or Champion. The extra SB slot this creates can also be used to slot in Terrastodon.

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Originally Posted by Eldarion

Here's a thought: - 4 fyndhorn elves, -1 forest, - 2 Summoner's pact, + 4 Green Sun's Zenith, + 1 Dryad Arbor, + 1 Elvish Archdruid, + 1 Elvish Champion.

The idea's that GSZ functions as llanowars 5-8 with Dryad arbor, and you want to smoothen out draws with GSZ more than Summoner's pact since Pact is trouble when you cast it in multiples (I've lost a game when my double Pact led to a fizzled combo and I couldn't pay 8 next turn). The addition of both the champion and Archdruid MD make for a better aggro Plan B as well as giving an additional big mana elf to go off with. Of course you can just ditch 1 pact and bring in just an Archdruid or Champion. The extra SB slot this creates can also be used to slot in Terrastodon.

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How does GSZ become the other llanowars though, since dryad arbor isnt a spell, you don't draw for it with glimpse. Also, it's a llanowar that costs you 2 instead of one which slows you down. What would be the benefit?

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Originally Posted by k2thej

How does GSZ become the other llanowars though, since dryad arbor isnt a spell, you don't draw for it with glimpse. Also, it's a llanowar that costs you 2 instead of one which slows you down. What would be the benefit?

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It only costs you 1 mana because Dryad has CMC of 0, but he's not an elf. Though it's a smart move indeed ;)

I think GSZ and Dryad Arbor are well suited if you're going for the NO/Pro plan.

Outside that synergy, I wouldn't run Dryad Arbor simply to be able to find with GSZ. I'm more inclined to test the card as a 3-of rather than a full 4, since it's slightly slower than simply casting your elves. It does give you a small toolbox approach which is worth including. (similar to a one-shot Survival now that it's banned)

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Originally Posted by NihilObstat

It only costs you 1 mana because Dryad has CMC of 0, but he's not an elf. Though it's a smart move indeed ;)

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Yup. That the dryad's not an elf, and the lack of a draw off of Glimpse, is giving me second thoughts about the whole thing though. Maybe as a 2-3-of to complement 3 Summoner's Pacts? Although it doesn't work well with Glimpse, it does help you tutor for combo pieces and utility, which is really good when you're recovering from removal, and it's easier to pull off than, say, Genesis Wave. The Wish is of course the ultimate toolbox, but with the 2 additional mana needed I'm thinking it's more of a wincon searcher for when you've got a mana engine running rather than something that helps you set up the engine in the first place.

Thanks for the input too, rukcus!

Use GSZ to tutor for Wirewood Symbiote when comboing. Problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Infinitium

Use GSZ to tutor for Wirewood Symbiote when comboing. Problem solved.

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Why would that be better than if you drew a one drop instead of GSZ? You don't draw for the symbiote, then use his ability to untap a dude and play the guy you bounced. So in essence you played a 1/1 insect with no abilities in an elf deck. A one drop elf would be better to have.

Because untapping a dude (along with bouncing an already tapped elf, so it's more like untapping 2 elves) effectively pays for the GSZ for 2 itself meaning that it effectively cycles itself for free. Bounce a (tapped) Visionary and you actually drew cards off it.

That, and it's the better card by far compared to summoners pact when not comboing since it can act as an early accelerant and actually allows you to tutor for relevant cards in advance rather than at the last opportune moment. Also, doesn't lose the game by default should the opponent be aböe to answer it.

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Originally Posted by Infinitium

Because untapping a dude (along with bouncing an already tapped elf, so it's more like untapping 2 elves) effectively pays for the GSZ for 2 itself meaning that it effectively cycles itself for free. Bounce a (tapped) Visionary and you actually drew cards off it.

That, and it's the better card by far compared to summoners pact when not comboing since it can act as an early accelerant and actually allows you to tutor for relevant cards in advance rather than at the last opportune moment. Also, doesn't lose the game by default should the opponent be aböe to answer it.

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Well if we leave the visionary aside for a second though, we are paying 2 mana to get the symbiote in play, effectively untap 2 creatures, and draw one card (off the bounced dude). That is the end result, right? So, if we had played an elf, we would have new untapped elf, drew a card, and spent only one mana.

Thus, you are essentially spending an extra mana to untap one more dude, everything else is the same. So which is better, one mana for an untapped dude and a card, or two mana for 2 untapped dudes and a card?

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Originally Posted by k2thej

Well if we leave the visionary aside for a second though, we are paying 2 mana to get the symbiote in play, effectively untap 2 creatures, and draw one card (off the bounced dude). That is the end result, right? So, if we had played an elf, we would have new untapped elf, drew a card, and spent only one mana.

Thus, you are essentially spending an extra mana to untap one more dude, everything else is the same. So which is better, one mana for an untapped dude and a card, or two mana for 2 untapped dudes and a card?

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Obv it all depends on the situation at hand. Both seem acceptable. We can't simply say one is better than the other in a vacuum, because there's mitigating circumstances. I used to run into the same issue when Survival was still in my deck. Glimpse is pretty damn good on its own, unless you need a specific card... say Wirewood Symbiote. Or perhaps you drew GSZ instead of that one drop elf and wish to continue comboing off? Given a choice, I'd prefer to cast the elf than tutor for Symbiote, but it all depends on the situation.

The far as Combo Elves without NO/Pro, I would say that Living Wish is the better card since the deck is more geared towards efficient and hyper-low curve for combing. GSZ is immediately recognized as having tons of potential in NO/Pro builds for the reason that it does accelerate you into turn 3 Natural Order.

My instinct leads me to believe that GSZ is better suited for the NO plan rather than the storm/mana Combo variants.

Ok, sorry for not responding to the latest posts, I simply haven't done enough research on the elf combo to feel comfortable giving good advice there.

But on the living wish sideboard: maybe Goblin Bushwhacker (assuming you are running Birchlore Rangers)? Ofcourse only relevant if you dont have the spare 15 mana for Emrakul...

Also, if you want to use Priests of Titania & the like rightaway, you could use Lightning Greaves aswell, Concordant Crossroads isn't the only option. Keep in mind that the Concordant Crossroads open up attacks aswell though.