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Guys i need your advise. I like the deck i lack the following cards for it:
4 Cruel Bargain
1 S. Pact
4 Culling the weak
1 diabolic intent
This approx. 80 bucks. Moreover i dont own bayou but overgrown tomb.
Do you suggest invest in this deck knowing this?
THx!!
GC.
I suggest skimming ebay. You can get crazy deals there. Bayou for 35$, etc.
Goldfish in the meantime though.
Mmm...maybe...i still have a complete belcher....just wait thought..Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
I wouldn't play Diabolic Intent but its a good investment if you enjoy playing the deck. Its much more fun than Belcher since you are usually able to out think or out play your opponent instead of flipping a coin. Also, even the control players enjoy playing against the post-board. Its like a chess match. I'd give it a try on cockatrice or proxy it up and play A LOT of games against a control player to make sure you enjoy the deck enough to invest 80 bucks. I've had the deck since like 07 though and its STILL fun as fuck to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenCid
EDIT:
@Ricardio.
Nice report. Against discard, keeping all mana isn't necessarily bad. It depends on what that mana is. If its Chrome Moxen, I'd keep it. Like Double Moxen is the ideal mana hand to keep against them. Last time I played against Pox, I mulled to 5 on the play knowing he was on Pox, and I just laid down to Moxen turn 1 imprinting rituals, he waited a turn, and then hymned away the card I drew for turn 2. A few turns later I landed a Petal and a Land Grant, just top decked a D4, and then laid down a Belcher to get the kill. Don't underestimate a mana hand with Mox + Mox/land against discard. With Belchers in the deck, or a topdecked LED + D4/IT you can get there as long as you have perpetuals.
And yeah it seems like you were mulling wayyy to aggressively. This deck should comfortably be able to go off by turn 3 or 4 without having a business spell in hand. For example, if you have 19 business spells and you've drawn a 7 card hand with decent perpetuals and good acceleration... you have a 35% chance of drawing what you need off the topdeck. So every 2.7 cards you should draw a business spell. Slightly under 3 cards means on the play you'll be going off by turn 4 or at least casting a business spell. Against a deck like lands, you shouldn't have a problem getting there. Even Chalice at 1 is joke when you have all day to combo off.
High Tide is a tricky match. I happen to also own Solidarity so I've played the matchup quite often. Its definitely in SI's favor. Carpet of Flowers is wayyy too brutal post-board. If they can't force it, they are utterly screwed, even with 4 Forces, and 4 Mindbreak Traps, Solidarity will often have to spend all their cantrips just digging for Forces and Remands (if you play Remand). Also, I usually go all in game 1 against Solidarity if I can. After they have access to one mana they get Brainstorm into Force. If they get to 2 mana they get Remand or Peer --> Force. At 3 mana, you have a shit ton of trouble because they can even Meditate in response or Cunning Wish --> Mindbreak Trap. At 4-6 mana they can go off in response pretty often now that they can Snapcast Reset. This is all, of course, in game 1. Game 2/3 you can disrupt them with Duress and beast out spells with Carpet without having to wait too many turns for gas. You just ideally want a mana/protection hand to open with.
Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. Also I need help on the sb
I feel like its lacking in some way.
4 duress
4 carpet
2 natures claim
2 empty
1 taiga
1 PiF
1 thoughtseize
Your sideboard looks fine. I think 2 Empty the Warrens, 4 Carpet, 4 Duress, is basically necessary SB material at this point. The other 5 slots are still a bit ambigious for me. I really want to start playing x2 Thoughtseize, x2 Bayou, x1 Taiga. The other day I was playing with 3 Bayou, x1 Taiga post-board and it made a HUGE difference it besting BUG control in the post-board 4-2, which is still pretty much what I might have gotten but I was getting shitty hands and draws all day. The lands made everything more consistent and gave me a nice long game.
Also, take a look at these cards spoiled from the new set.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...5&d=1346904576
I definitely will be playing this card over Odious Trow. Its barely ever relevant that you want to sit and block with Odious Trow. Maybe in one game, like in the history of me playing with this deck. There are way more occasions where you want to get some extra damage in or something and perhaps Scavenge will help you get there. The other day, Wild Cantor, Skyshroud Cutter, and ESG beat my opponent down to 8 before he managed to kill each creature with Innocent Blood, Dark Blast, etc. Then tokens came in to finish him off. Also, the card looks WAY more badass than an ugly as troll strangling a rat.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...1&d=1346904113
I think this card will make people not want to play Counterbalance anymore. Its amazing for Legacy as it kills a lot of permanents you don't want to deal with. I don't think we will play it, but just food for thought since its GB, and also the fact that people probably won't want to play CB anymore when it will be so ineffective with this card running around as a maindeck card, unlike Krosan Grip.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...1&d=1346817949
This card costs quite a bit of mana for us to invest into it but it blows up permanents and it can win us the game, so I'm definitely going to test it with a land heavy sideboard and see how it goes.
I like them!
Slitherhead looks like fodder for more than this deck too. :smile:
A'Decay looks pretty sweet - I love *can't be countered* cards.
I just saw the spoiler and was about to say the same thing, looks like you beat me to it. The scavenge ability is marginal, but absolutely more relevant than regeneration (which I have used exactly zero times ever--when would I ever have the mana up for it?).Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacrix
More importantly, though, a Japanese Odious Trow has been IMPOSSIBLE to find for my PSI list, and now I'll finally be able to fill that slot with a JP card :tongue:
The decay seems like possible sideboard against certain decks but Idk about the planeswalker. Seems a bit greedy. I will Definately try finding a foil Russian slitherhead for my psi.
The five slots could incorporate a single vraska but the other 4 gotta be lands or something.
Hey guys! Been playing legacy for about 2 years now and I've mostly just lurked thesource. I mostly play control but I've always loved SI ever since I started and I plan to try to run it at bigger tournaments when I go. I have a tourney report for a small weekly legacy event(14 players) that just started up in my area for you. I have gold fished like 50 games and play tested like 20 against various things, and no one had played against the deck before, so that helped.
Here is my list:
4 Cruel Bargain
4 Infernal Contract
4 Infernal Tutor
3 Goblin Charbelcher
3 Tendrils of Agony
1 Slithermuse
1 Past in Flames
1 Odious Trow
1 Wild Cantor
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Culling the Weak
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Land Grant
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Bayou
SB: 4 Duress
SB: 4 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 3 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Goblin Charbelcher
SB: 1 Mirri's Guile
SB: 1 Bayou
SB: 1 Taiga
I used Vacrix's list as a backbone. Btw Vacrix I've read all 37 pages of this thread and you have been doing an AWESOME job developing this deck. I went with a different deck config I wanted to test and here is my reasoning(feedback appreciated). I dropped IGG because I tended to find that whenever I had LED to utilize the loop that I had generally won anyway, LED tends to win games. I was reading the discussion about Vacrix's 4x Belcher and 1x Tendrils against Kusumoto's 3x Tendrils config but I like being able to have the option of beating force game 1 with tendrils while also being able to produce 4 and then LED belcher. So I decided I would drop the card I rarely NEEDED(IGG) in favor of being able to do both, and it went pretty well.
I didn't write stuff down and am doing this after the tourney so bear with a brief report
Round 1: U/W Stoneblade Miracles(I think) w/ counter top (2-1)
Game 1: He played first turn fetch>tundra>top, I had a turn 1 hand and decided to try to go off before spell pierce became active, I ate a FoW and died. Shit happens.
SB: creatures/pact/culling package and a tendrils in for everything but ETW
Game 2: Open up a hand with 2xMox, 2x Carpet, D4, and some other junk. KEEP. I played around spell pierce all game, rip a duress, grab his force and go off. Seems good.
Game 3: Open up a hand with 3x Carpet, petal, ESG and some other junk. KEEP. Once again play around spell pierce all game, duress, then just lay down belcher but I had to use it twice to get the kill.
Round 2: Goblins (2-0)
Game 1: Wasn't sure what he was playing, then he goes mountain>Lackey. Well then...I turn 1 belcher, he scoops when I turn it sideways and then I reveal Bayou as my top card, I'll take it.
SB: Nothing
Game 2: Turn 1 Belcher win. Meh, Goblins. Free match.
Round 3: Bant Maverick (2-1)
Going into this I know he is playing blue but he is also only playing 2 Thalia because he couldn't find his other 2, haha.
Game 1: Don't remember this very well, I was on the play and went off with tendrils before pierce became active after shenanigans with PiF.
SB: creatures/pact/culling package and a tendrils in for everything but ETW. I wasn't sure about this config to be honest, I knew he was boarding in flusterstorm, pierce, and tons of other relevant shit and I was on the draw. So there was a good chance I could eat one of those, and I knew he only had 2 Thalia so I figured I would try the slow roll plan and if it didn't work out I would go to a fast EtW plan post board on the play.
Game 2: First turn he opened with land into GSZ>Arbor. I had a pretty good hand with a chance of a T1 if my D4 went well, so I went for it since I didn't think he was playing daze. I ended up drawing into 4 mediocre cards and couldn't find a tendrils/D4/Belcher/IT so I pass turn after playing some perpetual mana sources. I am able to play around pierce at this point but dryad arbor and knight beats get there in 2 turns.
Game 3: This was the best match of the night. I'm on the play and keep a really strong hand with opening belcher and LED, just need to draw into like 1 card. I play LED, 2xMox imprint black, Land grant into Dryad Arbor and pass turn so I can play around Pierce. He drops...something. Next turn I don't draw what I need, and then on his turn he plays Pridemage. I play Belcher and activate but forget to declare a target. I show top up to 4(Bayou) and realize I made a mistake not targeting so we call a judge and he says I can't activate without declaring a target but with knowledge of damage I need to randomize and then reflip, works for me. I target pridemage and reflip like 10. Next turn I belch to kill him.
Round 4: Dream Halls (2-1)
Game 1: Go all in on turn one on the draw with Tendrils in hand, he has the force but it doesn't do much good, off to game 2. Side note, he was about to combo next turn. Woot!
SB: Nothing
Game 2: Go all in again on the draw, get blown out by daze on Cabal Rit after a pact. I really wasn't expecting daze.
Game 3: Have a pretty good hand with 2x LED, D4, Cabal, Land Grant and some other junk but I need a business spell once I cast my D4 on turn 1. I draw into Cabal, Tendrils, PiF, and something else. SEEMS GOOD. I proceed to go off with like 10 black 2 green 1 red floating and win with Tendrils.
Got myself a Chrome Mox and some packs. Overall the tournament was a great success minus not targeting with Belcher. Also after talking to the Bant player he thought going EtW would have been better than going with the grind plan but since he had so much extra mana cost hate the grind plan wasn't a terrible idea either.
Good effort :smile:. How was Slithermuse for you? I cut him a while ago and haven't really missed it. Then again, deciding the number/ratio of business spells in SI is a dark, mysterious art it seems.
Congrats Hanma, and well done.
Free cards are always a good thing and I really appreciate you sharing your list and your games, especially what you sb'd
Thanks.
Honestly, I didn't use it in the tournament but that was mostly because I didn't need to. Usually I use it as an easy target when I can't quite get there t1. I just can't picture putting anything else in it's place, Diminishing Returns is the only other card like it that serves the same purpose and is tutor'd by less things.
I think Abrupt Decay is going to be much more instrumental than you think. It takes out every hate-bear there is, Counterbalance, Chalice, Trinisphere, Tarmogoyf, Bob, Snappy, Vendilion Clique, and so much more. I think it's insane for a storm list of any variety and caliber. Get them while they are cheap.
-ABC
First off, only TES and SI are on green so this isn't a good card for "any" storm list, as you suggest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
Abrupt Decay does nothing vs a bear protected by an active mother. The other cards you mentioned don't seem relevant to me in terms of Abrupt Decay except perhaps 3sphere, Counterbalance and Chalice, none of which see enough play to warrant reactive sideboard plans IMO. (Ok maybe Counterbalance, but I personally don't see it a lot in my regional metagame.) Anyway, if we are looking for a reactive sideboard card vs bears, I'm pretty sure that Slaughter Pact and/or Virtue's Ruin are the way to go. Two colors in the same spell doesn't seem great for a deck with so few permanent mana sources.
Lately, though, I've been wondering if we should just have Thoughtseize over Duress. 2 life isn't really relevant for our D4s, and it seems way better to take a Thalia from the opponent's hand before they resolve it than to try and play through it reactively. Ditto for CB, Chalice, etc.
I've been playing around with a few different cards, wondering what all your thoughts are on these?
Manamorphose seems pretty good, but is this card still considered worth playing? I've found it pretty good with Slithermuse and PiF....
A singleton I've been goldfishing with is Moonlight Bargain.
I should explain, I've been running it in a deck with four lands (arbor, 2 Bayou, Taiga) and 3 Tendrils with an EtW and a Charbelcher. I've been using it instead of Muse so far, not additional.
It's highly conditional, similar to Slithermuse, but can't be fetched with Pact like Muse can.
I've managed to use it kinda like a Peer Through Depths so far, just snagging what I need and binning the rest, unless I manage to cast it as a D5 before any D4's.
So far it's been a way to at least skim through the top 5 and fuel Cabal Ritual, if not for straight up draw.
It's a pretty heavy mana investment, but so far I'm not sure what to think of it....
My gut says it's not a great choice, but it's gotten me out of a hole more times than Muse so far.
Thoughts?
Slithermuse is not green.Quote:
Originally Posted by slave
If you're going to play a 5 drop black instant that loses 10 life, why don't you play the correct card? Hint, it's named Ad Nauseam.
I'm not saying you should play an Ad Nauseam in this deck, just that it's way better than Moonlight Bargain.
(facepalm)Quote:
Originally Posted by Namida
And that's what happens when you rush a post....
RE: Ad Nauseum, very true - but with that card you're definitely gonna lose life, whereas with Moonlight Bargain you don't have to lose any potentially, unless you chance upon the card you want. It's effect is nowehere near as good of course...
Just a thought.....
So although we have a new pact target in Slither head. I would turn attention to Deathrite Shaman. It reads,
Deathrite Shaman
P/T: 1/2
B/G
Elf/Shaman
T:Exile target land from your graveyard to add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
B&T:Exile an instant or sorcery from ANY graveyard to have each opponent lose two life.
G&T:Exile a creature card from a graveyard to gain two life
Its a mana dork thats great to imprint, cull away or use in a control matchup to slowly drain your opponent as your working towards going off. The mana ability seems a bit hard to get off but who knows although we run few lands they are often open to wasteland so this can help with initial mana sources even fighting through wasteland. The second ability seems strong in games against blue that will go long, lowering the storm count by 1 every turn you can activate it. The third ability doesnt seem useful at all but I suppose the fact that it can get any creature card from any graveyard will help in some games.
*Edited to include the fact that both abilities can be used with cards in any graveyard, this card is bonkers.