[Deck] The Rock

1. Matt's primer is much better than this and older, too. He should have the opening post.

2. I agree that it would be a MAJOR improvement to call this list "Junk" and not "Rock". Rock was traditionally not about heavy Mana denial like this. The list also seemns quite fixed and done. The list needs not much discussion about general strategies and more about single choices.
On the other hand the list occupied the Rock thread without actually being Rock. A while ago Tempo Thresh was discussed in the normal Threshold thread. One half discussed the Stifle version and the other half discussed the more controllish white version. It was just awkward. Things got much better when the red version got its own thread.

So my suggestion would be that sdematt gets the opening for a "Junk" thread. This would also stop people like me from wanting to discuss cards like Green Sun's Zenith in the Rock thread when one half of the people there plays this list anyway.

I was feeling pretty crappy today until I got this wonderful ego boost from Tao. Thanks man :)

-Matt

Strong showing from GWB decks at SCG Edison, looks like 3 Rock-ish variants in the top 8.

Great to see this deck keep chugging along, underrated by most.

Strong showing from GWB decks at SCG Edison, looks like 3 Rock-ish variants in the top 8.

Great to see this deck keep chugging along, underrated by most.

We just put 4 Rock in the Top 16, and 3 in the Top 8. DTB please?

Plus, both Zenith builds and non-Zenith got there. Aren't we freakin' amazing?

Also, Team America made a splash. Well done.

-Matt

Yeah, just saw that. It's awesome.

I just came from a 23 man tournament, went 3-1-1, and got top 8, same list as the 59 man with another slightly different sideboard. Made a mistake on g3 of quarter finals to miss out on possibly removing a Progenitus. I played out Confidant instead of Knight with a Top on the field. I was going to do it, forgot, then remembered right after I put it down. I would have been able to see 7-8 cards instead of 2 with Confidant. Didn't get my out, then died. Oh well, he ended up taking first though, got the Sea and Taiga.

Top 8 with Zenith Junk.
I think both no GSZ Junk and GSZ Junk are viable.

If you choose the GSZ plan you have the advantage against counterbalance, you can out creature other midrange decks, and you just become more aggressive. But you lose some discard space which is pretty important against combo decks as I got ROLLED over by Alex's High tide.

Obvs, the no GSZ plan puts you in the control role against other mid-range decks and improves your combo match up as you have more space for discard. But the lack of inevitability against counterbalance puts you in a bad spot.

Pick your poison.

3 non zenith builds 1 zenith build... I think that all you that claim non zenith builds cant compete are finally gonna see thats not true...Considering one of the players of rock took zenith out of his build from last tourney to now...So I think that speaks for it self..... Eli cassis placed 4th with his zenith build in washington and second(should have won)with his non zenith build last night.

Im not a told you so kinda guy usually but I said there would be a decline in zenith decks from washington and I was right... I believe there were 2 in top 16....

Also I believe the debate of the no moxen builds should be over....Mox rules and all the top rock builds run it even the zeniths lists from washington.....

If you watch the finals the tide player had to top deck a timespiral to win on his last legs in game3...so junk can definately win tourneys....

Everyone who thinks hand dissruption is not the way to go....Hymm was a powerhouse throughout the tourney...so if you are looking to blaze a new trail make sure it includes hymm....

DTB.......HELL YEAH!!!

On another note I Stuck a Zenith and a few silver bullet creatures in my board it opened up some slots in my board and allows me to switch to a diff.. package post board I think its gonna be good with my tutor package for control and my zenith package for alittle more aggro approach...

So, Matt, I've seen the manabase of your list and got to notice that you run a basic forest, but I wonder if this one doesnt deny Turn 1 Hymns or Verdicts too often. I know it's fairly nice to get out a basic land of each color, but I think the deck can't cope with too many offcolor lands since the main color is black...

I'm not going to feed the troll. Continuing, i really like the list with the 2 elspeths. @ kazuya, huge grats! Way to carry the torch. Btw is hatfields list very durable? How quick was it? T3 kill consistently? I'm very curious.

Thats cool I wouldnt comment either....Its clear from your signature that you are alittle full of your self and somehow belive that your game is based on what you have....Well guess what, Ive got all that shit to...So does that put me in the cool club...lol...and if you need proof I'll post picks of every deck Ive got laid out with a picture of my ass next to them....lol..
Hell I bought 8 tarmagoyfs and 8 wastelands just so I dont have to move them back and forth...

All that aside... If me being completely objective and speaking the tuth about what I saw in the potential of a card and the critique of your list makes me a troll then fine...Its clear you are one of those guys who thinks his angle is supirior and will take it to the grave not matter what..
But the fact is that anyone who reads the last few pages can tell who has the " self serving delusions"...

You havent been objective or on point for that matter on any of the last topics...

1..Mox or no mox...You said its horrible late was a card dissadvantage and cause of that its not worth running...I said its a staple and its power is crucial...every list that placed I beleive has run it even the GSZ lists atleast at the last 2 events....

2..I was critical of your land base and pointed out that you should run some basics or could be shut out by crucible wastelocks and were weak to wasteland period and other denial stratagies and you said that only fringe decks play wastelock and that its worth running the risk....lol... If you look at the amount of wastelands and the presence of crucible and mana denial at the last 2 tourneys you are clearly outta touch here too...

3..I was honest in my assement of GSZ and said it was good and would find a home in somthing but didnt think it was for rock...You went on about how non GSZ decks cant compete in a mirrior and said its the greatest thing since sliced bread..and said I was selfserving and delusional because I predicted a decline in GSZ builds moving into this next tourney and said I felt it under performed...

And low and behold Eli cassis the 4th place rock player from washington cuts it from his list and goes to the final...So apparently he felt the same...And there were only 2 GSZ build this weekend...

I said GSZ belonged in somethin like bant and alex hatfeild played it in NO bant....And aside from the 1 junk build that still used it this week bant is the only other deck that still used it...So if you wanna say its good enough for the pros its good enough for me then you might wanna take a look at what theyre actually doing......

Please remind me MR.I HAVE EVERY CARD ON THE PLANET of one single thing that you have been on point about...

Seriously, calm the heck down.

Back to Magic.

Mishima, were you THE Zenith player at SCG? If so, congrats! Would you mind running a tournament report?

For the basic forest, I've found much of the time you're usually fetching out Swamps and Scrublands, and sometimes against Wasteland based decks fetching a Bayou doesn't let you play out your hand as well as fetching the basic Forest for stability. Sometimes you need to have a green-source over 2-3 turns for sure, and if don't have any other lands, and say you've got Scrub, Scrub, Swamp out, fetching Bayou can hurt.

Most of the time, if I need to, I rawdog the turn 2 Hymn with a Bayou if I need it for a turn 3 Goyf/Anything. You win some, you lose some. But, I've found the forest to be so valuable, as it lets you cast Deed, Goyf, threats, etc. under a Blood Moon as well, and doesn't get hosed by Back to Basics.

All in all, congrats to everyone that's been playing with this deck! We've done well! :)

Also, who actually won SCG open Edison? It has Hatfield and the Rock player both listed as second place. Did they just draw it out?

-Matt

Agreed w/ calming down or get out. No one cares who was right for w/e reason, we're here to discuss Rock. If you don't like GSZ, then make no comments on it if you cannot be respectful. So stop being a troll, it's not something we look forward to reading about.
Great performance on the deck, eating up the Metagame is where we shine! LoL, I'm sure then next event will hold entirely different results from this one, like the last event. So much changing going on, and that's why Rock is good!
I believe Junk Rock took second, Spiral Tide took first.

@ Basic lands

I play 1 basic of each color so I can't get shutout from non-basic hate. It's proven to be helpful and I'm not lacking where I should be.

@ T16 Junk Rock

I like each of them are essentially the same and yet look so different. That just goes to show how conventional Junk Rock can be. Would we consider them all Junk Rock, or variants of Junk Rock?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

Seriously, calm the heck down.

Also, who actually won SCG open Edison? It has Hatfield and the Rock player both listed as second place. Did they just draw it out?

-Matt

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on SCG, they had it as Alix's deck and he did win. Not sure why it is listed as such.
Pretty solid performance from Rock this weekend at SCG, good variations from the folks in the Top8.

Agreed, it's time to move on. :) I second the request for a tourney report! Would love to see it! There's a million variations and it's extremely exciting. @ 2nd place list. Just 2 Tarmogoyfs?! Are my eyes failing? I like the inclusion of Mother of runes, it's like some sort of hybrid between the rock and junk.

@ 6th place GSZ list. Terravore!! I'm glad to see my suggestion picked up in the Rock! How was it all day? Cheers, great list. Also how'd you like running Noble, GSZ and mox? That's something very interesting, super mana ramp for a guaranteed T1 accelerator.

Sorry to all the other posters in the thead for posting the reply to someone else....From here on out I will be keeping my comments deck related...I got pulled away from constructive talk by getting aggrivated at peoples attitude...

On the Junk/rock topic they are one and the same to me...

I absolutely love this deck....The more I play it the more I love it...It embodies everything I like about the game...

Versatile,controling,assbeating....And multiple lines of play.....

Mox Diamond sucks.

BUT it is the only moxen playable for this deck in the format (Chrome Mox is significantly worse). Would you not play with Moxen in Vintage for decks that need the Mox mana boost? (I am mentioning decks needing Mox Mana boost because some decks don't need to play with the additional mana).

In Legacy, Mox Diamond is the only Mox that is powerful (Mox Opal is very very powerful but is limited to artifact-based decks). However, Mox Diamonds can only be played in higher land-count decks, and decks requiring a heavier 2cmc-curve. The rock fits into such a deck that would use Mox Diamond to be fully powered.

And now 11 people are reading the thread. Success!

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2Rach

I just came from a 23 man tournament, Oh well, he ended up taking first though, got the Sea and Taiga.

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What is the entry fee on these turnaments?

LOL....Wow I love mox...it just puts the deck over the top IMO...potential power of the deck goes through the roof with mox...